Thanks for your response.
I read the Isiah passage and ive got some questions i hope you can help me with.
Firstly, what immediately struck me about it is that its written in a mixture of past, present and future tense. It speaks of events that have already happened and follows them with events that will happen.
Exactly, but would would you be expecting from a Prophecy? the mixture includes the past from a future perspective (us today), the present His time of suffering, continued Prophetic future beyond our age or generation.
A prophecy is a prediction, some predictions are merely guesses which basically are not devine in nature, some are devine in nature. Regradless of where Christianity stands, if we stick exclusively to what the Judaists followed the scriptures clearly defined a Messiah was to come, in the case of Judaism they believed that the Prophecies spoke of two Messiah's because they could not see the double fulfillment of the First and Second coming.
I think basically to provide a clearer answer to your question I would need you to be more specific to a verse in particular or in comparison of two or more which seems unclear as to why one would be past, present and future and to what degree that would be an issue as that is the nature of a Prophecy to be all three.
Future tense for the author, past and present tense for the reader or follower of the time period in which He came, past, present and future for the reader or follower today, each verse having a relevance to indicate it as axiomatic.
While it may imply details to occur in the future, it also appears that the author has witnessed or been affected by events then.Ã‚Â Its also vague about the individual, it mentions no name or any other life details apart from those associated with a Jewish Messiah. Its not clear who is dictating it or who is writing it either, and it changes from an individual's perspective to a group's in parts.
This is also a "norm". Through Isaiah's prophecy we can feel his pain and sorrow as he has seen the future and comes to the realization that his people, the Jewish people rejected the Messiah that God had declared to come (Isaiah 42:1-4) and the rejection came as a "National" rejection, thus the reason why it reads in some places from a group perspective. So it does not become questionable but irrefutable, the Old Testament Prophecies foretold of His rejection by His own people and the New Testament confirms His rejection (John 1:10:11)
Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.Ã‚Â A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Also, if you compare it to another version of the bible, you'll see changes. One such change in the Youngs literal Translation replaces "seed" with "offspring". Seed could be interpreted to mean followers, but offspring, if read with a literal and prophetic eye means Children. Such words are open to an individual's perspective and whether or not the passage is indeed prophetic.
I disagree, I don't think anywhere in the Bible is the term seed ever accepted as followers, I think at that point one must struggle with great difficulties to accept that interpretation as such.
As far as discussing translations I use many of them I have a rather large collection of translations as well as Internet resources which cover just about every translation in existence but nonetheless each and every version preaches the salvation of mankind through the death of Christ Jesus.
Not much. It just seems a bit long winded all the problems the Jews have trying to get their own state. Could you tell me why God didnt just give them their own
land from the off instead of making them struggle for all these years?
Because whats the point in creating so many problems along with mankind? Why does god need redemption. He made us perfect so why make the tree of knowledge and demand redemption for his creations which have in built flaws? Whats the point. If your going too create things with the intention of a perfect world why be so short sighted?
Well that's your interpretation of it from the outside and your opinion reflects your position as having been one who has not studied scripture. What you have here is your inability to comprehend it as a whole. It doesn't conform to the vision in your mind, so you have to create an image in order to rationalize as well as justify your position to deny it from being factual, remember the second commandment? "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image"
. The Bible teaches us that God is incomprehensible, we will never obtain the level of knowledge of the Creator because we are creatures of His creation and therefore are subjected to a limitation of creaturely knowledge, this is why it takes mankind decades to solve problems or worse never fiund cures for things like the common cold or an even better example mankind's inability to not be able to "evolve" beyond the 10 commandments, as believer's we can, as non-believers you cannot. The only way to evolve from eternal separation from God to an eternal presence with Him is to accept that Christ died for your sins.
If all you need is faith to believe in religion then no matter how convincing prophecy is, your belief is still no different from any other persons.
So theres no fine line between? I mean you cant possibly accept that jesus existed but the bible was written 2000+ years ago and by undoubtably less knowledgeable people who use superstition and the supernatural to explain life? We no longer accept witchcraft for disease or demons for eplisepsy, so is it enough for you to believe the existence of Angels etc? It ironic that if you dont believe in demons, you have nothing to do with them.
Hehe... you didn't see evolution happen did you?...I mean you are taking it under 100% faith that life evolved from non-living tissue right? So how does that place you as a non-believer in a category of "Superiority" doesn't that equate you to the same position as me saying that Christianity is the one true religion?
Hopefully my point is getting across to you about how the Bible was formed, it wasn't written as one giant book it was many different books, writings, brought together, the Bible was written over a span of 1600 years and is not a book man could write if he would and the Bible is not a book man would write if he could. There is plenty of diversity in unity in the 66 books with over 40 authors.
I'm curious as to how you can make a claim of superstition as the Bible does not promote superstition or mysticism, I mean taking a look again at life evolving from nothing, I don't think science fiction can hit a higher level of ignorance when making the claim that Religion is nothing but myth and superstition due to not having an answer for the origin of life,but at the same time saying "life evolved from nothing" is the same thing as saying you don't have an answer for origins as well. So the evolution from nothing theory is "made up" in order to rationalize an existence without devine influence in order to maintain that the mind is superior to the Bible, nothing more.
If you had read the Gospels, you would have also known that both types of people wre being healed during the time of Christ, those that were identified as being demon posessed as well as those afflicted with epilepsy, so they clearly knew the difference between the two.
If I was afflicted by a demon which sometimes I do believe that we are all afflicted at different times, the difference being the believer can be controlled demonically but the non-believer can be fully posessed. Having now been bought by the blood of Christ I am owned by Him and demons cannot take possesion of a believer but they can control a believer, demons were defeated by Christ's death on the cross.
Unfortunately we live in a world with many of those who are afflicted with demons the fact that people believe in the Hollywood portrayal of demons allows a deception to take place which increases ones ability to look at demonic posession with ridicule, Satan and his little red costume with a ptch fork and a tail with horns protruding from his head, the little girl with her head spinning around in the Exorcist, is that how the Bible interprets demonic posession or is that how mankind interprets it?
There are a nuimber of ways to identify demonic posession but it has to be learned in order to seperate it from the common sin nature of man first so that at no time can an individual say "the devil made me do it". In most cases it is our sin nature by which we commit sin but there are other times there are demonic influences in the actions of a particular individual which are controlled by these unseen forces.
Im not going to say "Your wrong, you didnt see this in your dream", because everyone is entitled to their belief's. All i can say is that it was a dream, divinely inspired or otherwise, and we cannot just follow what dreams tell us. Despite the magnitude and relevence of it, its not unheard of to dream of loved ones who have passed on. My own grandfather has passed away, but ive not dreamed of him, and he dabbled in catholicism. So i respect that particular belief, i cant judge it because ive not experienced anything like that myself.Ã‚Â
Well based on my former past as an Atheist and coming form a religiously deprived background and that it took me over 10 years to finally get the message, I'll stand on my belief that it was devinely inspired and was clearly an intervention as my Grandfather gave me no indication whatsoever that he ahad any religious belief's nor was my family religious whatsoever.
So mankinds greatest and most reliable interpretations of the earth's history just happen too co-incide with descriptions of the bible? You dont think the early Christian Geologists thought twice about that?
Very little in science has actually been "proven". Theories are simply the best possible explanation of the evidence. Could you tell me why we can actually see plates according to your theories?
Well of course we can see them, the plates exist. The position isn't wheter or not plates exist, it's whether or not subduction exists, where is youyr evidence of one plate tucking in or sliding under another then getting brought back out by a volcanoe? or is it just an obvious assumption because we see both? Where do you see subduction happening?
You can read about subductions problems here http://www.expanding....org/page_4.htm
I can also take a verse out of the Bible's interpretation of tectonic rifting and spreading from Isaiah 42:55Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
Funny thing is Isaiah seemed to know that the earth was spread out and "that which cometh out of it" being water and new silicate growth.
Here is a more modern approach to the theory plus some other interesting science.http://www.nealadams...orescience.htmlhttp://www.continuit...net/clip00.html
This image of the San Andreas is a stress fracture in the surface and is not evidence of subduction at all.
Fair enough, no person has yet seen subjuction because it would be impossible to do so. Granted i was taught about plate tectonics by a geologist of 25 years experience, but im still open too new discoveries. Its supported by evidence, thats the difference. If you can find a new explanation which accounts for evidence then im entirely ready to listen to it.
Right here... http://www.nealadams.com/nmu.html
all the evidence you will need to get started and the Author is a big time evolutionist not a creationist, I only really disagree with him where age dating is concerned, I don't believe in the "Evolutionary Time Scale"