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#21 fallan

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 07:28 AM

Well....  There are grammatical and scritpural reasons to see that as beginning in Gen1:3, and that Gen1:1~2 were some unknown period of time before.

Its very easy to read them altogether, butit can also be understood as Gen1:1 is God created, and then Gen 1:2 can be translated the Earth became waste and void.

But Isaiah 45:18 says that God did not create the earth waste and void.

You can look at it either way, i.e. Isaiah 45:18 refers to an overall creation description in Gen1, or that it supports a creation, judgement, and re-creation in Gen 1.

I've setteled on the earth probably being less than 10k years old, but I would not criticize people too much for seeing it the other way, at least from a Biblical point of view.

Either way, the universe had an obvious age, my guess is tha Adam and Eve probably were created in their early 30's.  Christ was the 2nd Adam and his minitisry began when he was around 30 so there could be some correlation between them.  Just speculating...

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Hi Terry,My argument isnt the 24hr day which is obviously for mankinds benefit( God could have created everything in an instant) but why is it stated that the earth was without form and void. I know some people (possibly Im one of them) who see Gen.1.1 as an introduction of what God "did"and from v2-31 shows what this creation entailed.Why is it that the earth didnt have the form we know it has now and exactly what does void mean? It also seems to me that it isnt until v 3 that God started His creation with the first of His words "Let there be light" Im not advocating evolution here I dont believe in such a "fairytale"but just the age of the earth but Im not hard and fast on this and Im open to being persuaded that the earth really is 6000/10000ytears old. :D

#22 ikester7579

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 11:35 AM

The earth was created for life. Part of that life was man. And since God sent His Son to die for man and His sins. It would be obvious that the earth was created more for man than anything else, correct?

So when it comes to the form and void issue of creation, which brought up the gap theory thing. There is only one creature that was formed during creation and that was man.

So:

1) Form = man. Because man was the only creation formed.
2) Void = empty.

Basically the earth was empty of the life that it was created to sustain. There are no extra time periods and everything here can be backed up by scripture if needed.

#23 fallan

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 03:43 PM

The earth was created for life. Part of that life was man. And since God sent His Son to die for man and His sins. It would be obvious that the earth was created more for man than anything else, correct?

So when it comes to the form and void issue of creation, which brought up the gap theory thing. There is only one creature that was formed during creation and that was man.

So:

1) Form = man. Because man was the only creation formed.
2) Void = empty.

Basically the earth was empty of the life that it was created to sustain. There are no extra time periods and everything here can be backed up by scripture if needed.

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Form =man does not convince me Im afraid its pure conjecture to say that without form means without man..Void I can agree with.
It would be interesting to see the Greek for these two words. :)

#24 fallan

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 04:04 PM

The earth was created for life. Part of that life was man. And since God sent His Son to die for man and His sins. It would be obvious that the earth was created more for man than anything else, correct?

So when it comes to the form and void issue of creation, which brought up the gap theory thing. There is only one creature that was formed during creation and that was man.

So:

1) Form = man. Because man was the only creation formed.
2) Void = empty.

Basically the earth was empty of the life that it was created to sustain. There are no extra time periods and everything here can be backed up by scripture if needed.

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FROM MATTHEW HENRYS COMMENTRY

Here is the work of creation in its embryo, v. 2, where we have an account of the first matter and the first mover.

1. A chaos was the first matter. It is here called the earth (though the earth, properly taken, was not made till the third day v. 10), because it did most resemble that which afterwards was called earth, mere earth, destitute of its ornaments, such a heavy unwieldy mass was it; it is also called the deep, both for its vastness and because the waters which were afterwards separated from the earth were now mixed with it. This immense mass of matter was it out of which all bodies, even the firmament and visible heavens themselves, were afterwards produced by the power of the Eternal Word. The Creator could have made his work perfect at first, but by this gradual proceeding he would show what is, ordinarily, the method of his providence and grace. Observe the description of this chaos. (1.) There was nothing in it desirable to be seen, for it was without form and void. Toho and Bohu, confusion and emptiness; so these words are rendered, Isa. 34:11. It was shapeless, it was useless, it was without inhabitants, without ornaments, the shadow or rough draught of things to come, and not the image of the things, Heb. 10:1. The earth is almost reduced to the same condition again by the sin of man, under which the creation groans. See Jer. 4:23, I beheld the earth, and lo it was without form, and void. To those who have their hearts in heaven this lower world, in comparison with that upper, still appears to be nothing but confusion and emptiness. There is no true beauty to be seen, no satisfying fulness to be enjoyed, in this earth, but in God only. (2.) If there had been any thing desirable to be seen, yet there was no light to see it by; for darkness, thick darkness, was upon the face of the deep. God did not create this darkness (as he is said to create the darkness of affliction, Isa. 45:7), for it was only the want of light, which yet could not be said to be wanted till something was made that might be seen by it; nor needs the want of it be much complained of, when there was nothing to be seen but confusion and emptiness. If the work of grace in the soul is a new creation, this chaos represents the state of an unregenerate graceless soul: there is disorder, confusion, and every evil work; it is empty of all good, for it is without God; it is dark, it is darkness itself. This is our condition by nature, till almighty grace effects a blessed change.

So for me without form and void is summed up by MH perfectly :)

#25 ikester7579

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 04:26 PM

Form =man does not convince me Im afraid its pure conjecture to say that without form means without man..Void I can agree with.
It would be interesting to see  the Greek for these two words. <_<

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In the creation there are three ways that God created (a trinity).

1) Said creation: Where God's word creates something from nothing.

a) Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
B) Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
c) Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

2) Made or formed creation.

a) Genesis 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
B) Genesis 1:16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
c) Genesis 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Creation of man:
Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

3) Bring forth creation.

Bring forth creation is where God commands what has already been created to bring forth new life.

Genesis 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 09:24 AM

isn;t the said creation like the bring forth creation because each time the creation is commanded by vocal to bring stuff forthe

#27 ikester7579

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 11:26 AM

isn;t the said creation like the bring forth creation because each time the creation is commanded by vocal to bring stuff forthe

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It is how it is done that makes it different. Said creation is speaking into existence what was not there. And it is made from nothing.

Bring forth creation is commanding what already exists to bring forth another type creation (plant or animal life). You cannot tell water to bring forth life if the water does not exist first.

But the water did not come from something that already existed so it come from nothing. But was created from nothing through the word. So I guess you could also say that the water, earth and the universe was created from the word of God directly. While everything else was on earth was created from what existed on earth (water, or dust od the ground).




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