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#61 JudyV

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 10:11 AM

Oh, there are absolute truths. But, You’re mistaking beliefs with truths, which is a common  for a relativist.
Are you absolutely sure there are no absolute truths?
You’re mistaking tolerances with truths. Absolute truths are absolute (5x5= 25 at ALL times, in All places), Tolerances can be the exacting as long as they fall within the threshold of said tolerance…
If your grasp of reality is to deny “absolute truth” of absolute truth, you are succeeding. Regardless of how incorrect you are. You see, you have yet to assail the fact of absolute truth. Oh, you’ve called it different names, and miss-defined it. But the bottom line is this; you have failed to prove 2+2= anything other than 4. And until you can disprove the absolute truth of so simple an equation, you fail any and all more intricate levels of logic, philosophy and science….

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So to you mathematical and metaphysical truths are one and the same. Got it.

Back to dimensions and tolerances: When making a part, there does actually exist a perfect, ideal part, one that the machinist strives to emulate with each part that he produces. Where does this part exist? In the mind of the machinist. Which coincidentally is where your absolute truth exists - in the mind of the believer.

So I will hereby concede - Yes, absolute truth and God do exist. They exist in your mind.

#62 de_skudd

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 10:39 AM

I hope you keep engaging this conversation because I would love to see your eyes opened to the dead-end that unbelief is as any useful epistemology.

Adam

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She never will Adam (although I pray I'm wrong), because pride and denial are a hard combination to swallow….

#63 Adam Nagy

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 10:52 AM

But, it is absolutely true that you do think!

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Sometimes I wonder if this is true... :lol:

#64 Adam Nagy

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 10:54 AM

I thought I already answered this.  Yes, absolute truths, like absolute measurements, certainly do exist.  Theoretically.  In your mind.  This does not make them any less real.   But they do not exist "out there, somewhere."

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Is this true for us like it is for you?

hmmm?

Yes, absolute truths, like absolute measurements, certainly do exist. Theoretically.

Theoretically, absolute truths do exist.

Certainly absolute truths, exist theoretically.

Like absolute measurements, theoretically, absolute truths do exist.


That was fun. :lol:

#65 de_skudd

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 11:02 AM

  But they do not exist "out there, somewhere."

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Are you absolutely sure?
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#66 JudyV

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 11:05 AM

Are you absolutely sure?

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No, but I'm comfortably within my tolerances. :lol:

#67 Adam Nagy

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 11:11 AM

Until God comes up to me and shakes my hand, I'm afraid I'll have to surmise that yeah, it is.

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Well, the concept of 'the real god' that would do such and such is the equivalent of idolatry because God is not your puppy.

I'm always amazed at people who think saying things like "If God was real He would do this..." or "If God was real the world would be like..." or "If God was God this is what He would be like..." is rational discourse. It actually reveals who's really god of their lives.

What obligation does God have to conform to your lively imagination? Maybe, we should ask:

Has God revealed Himself? If He has, what evidence is there to tell me who He is?

Can I trust Him? How does He communicate to us?

#68 de_skudd

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 11:13 AM

No, but I'm comfortably within my tolerances. :lol:

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Three Questions:

Are you then denying your own statement?

Is that what you consider rational thought?

Does that mean you were lying or delusional?

#69 Adam Nagy

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 11:15 AM

So you deny your own statement?

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I deny everything as absolutely positively probably sure that I don't know. :lol:

#70 de_skudd

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 11:17 AM

Until God comes up to me and shakes my hand, I'm afraid I'll have to surmise that yeah, it is.

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He has many times, but you’re busy with your tolerances…..

#71 CTD

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 11:21 AM

from t'other thread
http://www.evolution...opic=1944&st=20

I'm also quite comfortable conforming what I believe to what is known.  What a great way to put it!  That exactly describes my views.  I may use that as my new sig!  I enjoy speculating about things, but at the end of the day, what is known is what I come back to.
The known universe is a real, not an imaginary place, first of all.  Even in the known universe, however, there could well exist conditions conducive to life on other planets.  Just because we've not been visited by extraterrestrials, and probably never will be, does not mean life only exists here on earth.

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Thanks. In chronological order, thank you for surprising me - I really expected you to break your own analogy back there. And thank you for the compliment of quoting me in your signature.

"I am quite comfortable conforming what I believe to what is known."

But there is a drawback. As I understand it, you don't believe anything is known. A single pass renders the sentence somewhat similar to Sgt. Schultz' classic "I know nothing --- Nuh- Think!

But a single pass won't do, since the earlier clause is dependent upon the meaning of the latter. The phrase 'what I believe' thus gets entangled into perpetual conflict with 'what is known'. You cannot know nothing is known. Even if you convinced yourself you yourself knew nothing, you still would not know what other people know, and you're prohibited from finding out, lest you learn and come to know something.

You can cycle through the sentence time after time, and it'll never come out right.

#72 Adam Nagy

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 11:24 AM

She never will Adam (although I pray I'm wrong), because pride and denial are a hard combination to swallow….

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That's a tough thing to face.

I do hope this thread gets reviewed. It has some very interesting absurdities in it. We should probably stop with the one liners, Ikester's gonna crank down on this thread if we don't police ourselves.

Adam

#73 de_skudd

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 07:41 AM

I see you that you do not understand the impossibility of showing that something is absolutely true. 

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Are you absolutely sure?

Why would he need to be absolutely sure?


First - A.Sphere made an 'absolute' statement, therefore A.Sphere needs to provide how HIS 'absolute' statement is anymore absolute that anyone elses!
Second - Since A.Sphere MADE an absolute statement, then YES we DO NEED to make "Absolutely Sure", otherwise A. Sphere is being illogical AND a hypocrite!
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#74 de_skudd

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 07:45 AM

All belief systems are human inventions.

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So YOUR Atheistic belief system is a human invention as well?

That sounds a lot like religiosity!
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#75 Ron

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 02:06 AM

I see you that you do not understand the impossibility of showing that something is absolutely true.

 

 

Are you absolutely sure?

As you'll notice, A.Sphere never answered this question, and Judy V answered it with a snide remark because she realized that she painted herself into a corner as soon as she chimed in to answer for A.Sphere's absence of an answer.






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