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Should School Teach Creationism?


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#41 de_skudd

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 06:42 AM

Yes they are.

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And therefore subject to the states opinion on Christianity?

#42 jason78

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 08:02 AM

And therefore subject to the states opinion on Christianity?

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Lots of different sects of Christianity are discussed. The state religion is Church of England, which split from the main body of the Church during the reign of King Henry VIII.

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 11:58 AM

I also have a quick question.  Isn't it true that the majority of the 2 billion Christians out there believe in science and reject a literal 6 day creation?

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The majority of Christians do reject a litteral 6 day creation as well as the majority of Jews. The scriptures in genesis were never meant to be read as literal history or as scientific, this way of thinking about holy scriptures from any religion is fairly new in the developement of religion.

The stories were created to teach people how to live good and decent lives and to help people establish and strengthen a connection with God.

#44 de_skudd

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 12:56 PM

Lots of different sects of Christianity are discussed.  The state religion is Church of England, which split from the main body of the Church during the reign of King Henry VIII.

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Not to mention King Henry VIII's role in William Tyndale death... That notwithstanding, the State’s position as to the doctrinal restrictions that may be in place as well?

#45 Adam Nagy

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 01:41 PM

A Thread was split from here:

http://www.evolution...?showtopic=2103

#46 jason78

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 04:28 PM

Not to mention King Henry VIII's role in William Tyndale death... That notwithstanding, the State’s position as to the doctrinal restrictions that may be in place as well?

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What's your point? You didn't go around annoying the King of England in that day and age without courting some serious consequences.

#47 scott

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 07:21 PM

Ok, here is my opinion on teaching creationism in school:

It should be mentioned, but is almost universally known by Mr. Common Sense, because the majority of the population of the world already knows the 6 day creation account. Even die-hard atheist and evolutionist know the 6 day creation account, or have at least heard of it.

Actually I have not met one single person on planet earth who does not know about the creation account.

We can mention the creation account in our school books, but it's really not that hard to understand. Any further than that and we don't need to discuss evolution unless we show it's fallacies too, but unfortunately that isn't going to happen because:

1. The people who made these books are in support of ubber die hard liberal atheist/evolutionist worshippers.

2. Kids are too busy with s@x, Lil wayne, Giant stupid looking rims, loud useless soundsystems, drugs, alcohol, partying, and just plain having absolutely no common sense... period...to even care.

Now, if we want to get around problem number 1, and problem number 2, we must first start teaching the majority of the population of the world about Jesus, morals, and common sense. Without these 3 basic fundamentals there is absolutely no hope for these people.

The 3 basic fundamentals should be taught in our schools.

Again the 3 basic fundamentals should be taught in our schools, but unfortunately ubber liberalism has infected the minds of people nationwide, now we must be politically correct, and give a cookie to anyone that supports idiocracy.

Unfortunately none of this is going to happen because the end times are near, and Revalation is going to happen at some point. So what are we trying to do??? Delay Revalation??? The coming of Christ??? Ah well, we should still teach the 3 basic fundamentals regardless of who believes what, and what believes who.

Now, we have to start with the kids, and teach them the basics of common sense. Like instead of listening to rap, and making themselves look like utter and complete mental pygmies we must teach them accordingly.

Okay, I shall give you an opinion of my generation, and what I see is wrong, and how it should be fixed, because this goes a long way into getting creationism taught in our schools.

Here is what I see, been a part of, and witnessed over a countless number of times throughout my lifetime.

I see what amounts to people who are always worried about what other people think about them, and their social standing in society.

Lets take a look at Jimmy, our model average citizen of the United States of America, and his highschool journey:

Jimmy goes to school, see's all the girls, cars, teachers, and liberal studies. Jimmy sees some very impresive things like how everyone seems to be wearing the same ugly type of shoes, and baggy bottom boyz paints, and the occaisonal Cold Play inspired tight paints.

Now, Jimmy has to make a critical decision, if he chooses not to associate with these people, he will be viewed as ignorant, and a total looser, he's so worried in fact that he starts getting pimples, so he has to resort to joining the crowd at an early age.

Fast forward a few years and Jimmy is a full blown automaton, his copied lifestyle comes with a complete set of 33 inch spinna rims, signed by Birdman, and Lil wayne himself, custom fitted to his rusty Caprice (not so) Classic that has been spray painted green with strange Skittles, M&M stickers, and air Jordan symbols on the back glass.

His wardrobe consist of fashionable wallabie shoes, that make squirrels cry, and fashionable baggy bottom paints, and a large assortment of brightly colored, and striped polo shirts.

Now, Jimmy also has a rather large assortment of cd's that would make Jesus cry, Like lots and lots of Lil wayne, Eminem, Cold Play, Maroon 5, and lots and lots of various assortments of pop music thats only fashionable for 2 weeks at a time, so Jimmy has to keep all this in order so that his social status can't be cut dow.

Jimmy goes to all the parties and really likes Lordtabs, and smoking blunts. Menthol cigarrettes are acceptable, but black and milds are all the rage. Jimmy really likes doing drugs, because he has to sooth the pain of being beat by all the local church going hot rodders who actually understand the 3 basic funamentals.

Jimmy has multiple girlfriends, who also have multiple boy, and girlfriends, but lets face it, none of them have the time to actually have lasting meaningful relationships, besides thats lame, or at least Jimmy thinks so.

Jimmy doesn't have that much time to resort to studying, but he does the minimal, and does at least pass his classes. Jimmy wants to drop out of high school (just because that would be totally awesome), but he has some part of his soul left, so he keeps up some.

So, one day Jimmy comes to Science class, and the teacher is speaking of the Creation of the Universe, so the teacher starts talking about the Big Bang. Now Jimmy is kind of listening, but not really, he is too busy thinking about texting one of his girls on his cellphone, and if he should use his Biology textbook to prop up one of his speakers in his car. The teacher mentions the 6 day creation, and then says, " But scientist have peer reviewed the BIG BANG, so it is the logical conclusion no matter if there is absolutely no reliable evidence for it."

The words peer reviewed struck a chord in Jimmys mind... at first Jimmy thought oh cool beer reviewed, but then he snapped back to reality and started to actually think... sort of.

Jimmy looked at his totally cool lifestyle, and he finally realized that it was: " Peer Reviewed "

An explosion of thoughts and happiness went across Jimmys mind.

;)

Jimmy thought: Wow, my huge rims are peer reviewed as totally awesome, so are my clothes, my party life, oooohhh and my menthol cigarettes... I feel really special.

You see, Jimmy has absolutely no time for the 3 basic fundamentals. Jimmy doesn't have time for Jesus, or no time to logically think through just about any situation simply because Jimmy lives a peer reviewed life.

Now the key word is: PEER REVIEWED

Peer Reviewed
Peer Reviewed
Peer Reviewed
Peer Reviewed

Indeed, we should always be careful who it is thats doing the peer reviewing, or else we should fall astray like poor Jimmy did here.

The basic 3 fundamentals will get a person far in life. The Jesus, morals, and common sense go hand in hand. The 3 basic fundamentals can solve all the problems of this world. It's only a matter of following and believing these 3 basic fundamentals.

A person can live without the 3 basic fundamentals, but what has been witnessed without these is complete chaos, and hell after death. So choose wisely, and do not forsake Jesus, and what comes with Him.

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 07:41 PM

Scott

You have a very pessimistic view of our generation. And like me we both think that education needs to be reformed in the U.S. Unfortunately, this is where we differ. You want creation to be tought in school and evolution band, I want the exact opposite, but my agenda to reform goes beyond the 3 fundamentals.

I think that we need to step up our science education and reform the material teachers teach across all subjects with an emphasis on teaching kids how to think while giving them a good, strong foundation of knowledge so they can later build upon it in the future.

#49 scott

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 08:15 PM

Scott

You have a very pessimistic view of our generation. And like me we both think that education needs to be reformed in the U.S. Unfortunately, this is where we differ. You want creation to be tought in school and evolution band, I want the exact opposite, but my agenda to reform goes beyond the 3 fundamentals.

I think that we need to step up our science education and reform the material teachers teach across all subjects with an emphasis on teaching kids how to think while giving them a good, strong foundation of knowledge so they can later build upon it in the future.

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I don't see a need for evolution in our textbooks at all. I didn't need evolution, but I can tell you from experiance that I did need the 3 basic fundamentals, because they are what truly matters.

Why? Because the 3 fundamentals lead to a further increase in knowledge, and wisdom. I believe that we don't need atheistic teachings in our classrooms, because I have seen the results of a Godless society. Too much blood and gore in my honest opinion. Too many broken hearts, too many dead.

Evolution, and the Big Bang is not good and strong, therefore it is not good and strong material.

With no God, these kids are free to shoot each other in the face at whim. If you've seen these Godless children in action then you would possibly at least understand. I've traveled and been with these people, and I understand their mindset.

The truth is what should always be taught in school, if it's just a theory, then leave it out until it's proven fact. That's why I think Neither Creation accounts should be taught, they should be glanced over. If someone wants to teach either in school then leave it to the philosophers to teach both, and let the students decide based upon which evidence they like best.

Never put a theory in a textbook and say it's proven fact, because then it's not a theory. We must teach truth.


These 3 basic fundamentals are so important, but they have been neglected, and rejected so much by die hard liberal atheist, that there is almost no hope for society now.

I'm not against science and technology, I'm all for it. The reason I gave the example of Jimmy was to show how people who don't take the 3 fundamentals seriously.

Science is important, because it helps us understand how our world and technology works. This is very important.

Evolution and the Big Bang are not science, because they have failed to be tested even. They are both hypothesis, waiting their turn on the test table.

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 09:24 PM

Scott

I went to public school in a district near Washington D.C. I had many friends who were Atheist, and I knew many more. I also had many friends from all different religious backgrounds, and from many different ethnicity's.

And I can honestly say it did not mater if they were atheist or the most devout Christian on the planet, their religion did not define them. And even my atheist friends showed the same morals and kindness as any of my religious friends.

I find it odd that you would label Godless societies as having too much hatred, violence and blood. I would remind you of the Crusades, the Inquisition, Thirty Years War, the war between Protestants and Catholics in Ireland (one that is still being felt today), even Hitler was a Christian not an atheist and on the Nazi belt buckle it translates into English "God is with us".

To add to this, the idea that someone is not religious is actually quite new. In the time of Jesus everyone was religious, no matter where you were from. To be non-religious would be unthinkable in those times.

But your most unfounded ideas would be in science, you seem not to know what a theory is in science. It is not some random idea that you have one day. In science nothing is higher than a theory, because a theory explains a myriad of facts into a single comprehensive idea that has been rigorously tested to the highest standards.

Would you say that we should forget about the theory of gravity because it is just a theory. Or how about the atomic theory, we have never done anything with that theory before. No need for the germ theory, we'll just go back to using leeches to treat infections instead, I'm sure that will work even better than antibiotics! ;)

The last part is sarcasm, but it proves a point, nothing is higher than a theory in science, facts are subordinate to theories, and as new facts are discovered theories are subjected to change.

#51 CTD

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 10:58 PM

Would you say that we should forget about the theory of gravity because it is just a theory. Or how about the atomic theory, we have never done anything with that theory before. No need for the germ theory, we'll just go back to using leeches to treat infections instead, I'm sure that will work even better than antibiotics! ;)

The last part is sarcasm, but it proves a point, nothing is higher than a theory in science, facts are subordinate to theories, and as new facts are discovered theories are subjected to change.

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Facts are subordinate to theories? Thanks for divulging your philosophy so openly. It's good to know where people are coming from.

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 11:21 PM

Facts are subordinate to theories? Thanks for divulging your philosophy so openly. It's good to know where people are coming from.

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If you read any 101 science textbook they will tell you that theories are higher than facts, that nothing in science is higher than a theory, and any scientist will tell you the same thing.

If you do not accept the germ theory, what then do you propose makes people sick? If you do not accept the atomic theory, how do we create atomic bombs? If you do not accept the theory of gravity, what force attracts objects together in relation to their masses?

If you have an alternate explanation to any of these theories, show me your evidence, and get it peer reviewed so you can win the Nobel prize in science and the nice cash award that comes with it.

If not than read up on the difference and connection between fact and theory or admit you cannot comprehend this basic idea in science.

#53 de_skudd

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 04:46 AM

What's your point?  You didn't go around annoying the King of England in that day and age without courting some serious consequences.

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And that’s the point. Whenever the state starts dictating faith based status (like evolution in the class rooms) then only it’s opinion will be tolerated!

#54 jason78

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 06:20 AM

And that’s the point. Whenever the state starts dictating faith based status (like evolution in the class rooms) then only it’s opinion will be tolerated!

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Ok. You do know that we don't burn people at the stake for heresy here any more don't you? Also, the political opinion of the monarchy carries a lot less weight since we moved to a parliamentary democracy. Things have moved on since 1536.

#55 scott

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 07:31 AM

Scott

I went to public school in a district near Washington D.C. I had many friends who were Atheist, and I knew many more. I also had many friends from all different religious backgrounds, and from many different ethnicity's.

And I can honestly say it did not mater if they were atheist or the most devout Christian on the planet, their religion did not define them. And even my atheist friends showed the same morals and kindness as any of my religious friends.

I find it odd that you would label Godless societies as having too much hatred, violence and blood. I would remind you of the Crusades, the Inquisition, Thirty Years War, the war between Protestants and Catholics in Ireland (one that is still being felt today), even Hitler was a Christian not an atheist and on the Nazi belt buckle it translates into English "God is with us".

To add to this, the idea that someone is not religious is actually quite new. In the time of Jesus everyone was religious, no matter where you were from. To be non-religious would be unthinkable in those times.

But your most unfounded ideas would be in science, you seem not to know what a theory is in science. It is not some random idea that you have one day. In science nothing is higher than a theory, because a theory explains a myriad of facts into a single comprehensive idea that has been rigorously tested to the highest standards.

Would you say that we should forget about the theory of gravity because it is just a theory. Or how about the atomic theory, we have never done anything with that theory before. No need for the germ theory, we'll just go back to using leeches to treat infections instead, I'm sure that will work even better than antibiotics! ;)

The last part is sarcasm, but it proves a point, nothing is higher than a theory in science, facts are subordinate to theories, and as new facts are discovered theories are subjected to change.

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Hmm I believe that if any conversation between me and you is going to continue, then you need to get your facts straight, Hitler was not a Christian, and if you think so then your blatant ignorance of history offends me greatly.

You see, history is also a very important subject, and I highly suggest that you actually read the Bible and see if what Hitler believed and did actually lines up with what Christianity actually is, because you will quickly find that Hitler was obviously not a Christian.

You know thats sad that their religion did not define who they were, ( your friends), because if their religion didn't define who they are, then what are they??? Aliens??? Wishy washy automatons???

Everything a person believes and does defines who they are, you cannot leave out one part of a persons character, it all makes up who they are. This goes a long way in exposing lies, and how a person leaves out facts to prop up the belief that somehow a Godless society is awesome, because I can tell you it's not, and your not very convincing at all.

You see I won't hide behind a bunch of cliche's and lies. I'll come right out and tell you the facts, and pull no punches.

#56 CTD

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 08:42 AM

If you read any 101 science textbook they will tell you that theories are higher than facts, that nothing in science is higher than a theory, and any scientist will tell you the same thing.

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Absolutely untrue. I have seen a science book or two, and nowhere in any book, or elsewhere have I seen this folly before you posted it. To the best of my knowledge it is your own innovation, as unimpressive as it may be.

If you do not accept the germ theory, what then do you propose makes people sick? If you do not accept the atomic theory, how do we create atomic bombs? If you do not accept the theory of gravity, what force attracts objects together in relation to their masses?

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Who suggested I didn't accept germ theory? And gravity theory consists of several theories, laws, and hypotheses; "the theory of gravity" could refer to lots of things.

If you have an alternate explanation to any of these theories, show me your evidence, and get it peer reviewed so you can win the Nobel prize in science and the nice cash award that comes with it.

More bunk. The mainstream establishment opposed Wilbur & Orville Wright over 100 years ago. Things haven't improved since then.

My peers are such wise men as I encounter. I do bounce ideas off them from time to time.

If not than read up on the difference and connection between fact and theory or admit you cannot comprehend this basic idea in science.

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I don't admit things that are in-everyone's-face, big-time untrue just to make entities like yourself happy. That's a fact.

'bye now.

#57 de_skudd

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 09:13 AM

Ok.  You do know that we don't burn people at the stake for heresy here any more don't you?  Also, the political opinion of the monarchy carries a lot less weight since we moved to a parliamentary democracy.  Things have moved on since 1536.

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You’re right; it’s much more politically correct to ostracize those of differing belief systems and scientific opinion now-a-days (and they carry a lot of weight today). If proponents of the evolution model were more confident in that model, they wouldn’t stifle the opposing scientific views.

As it is, there is religion being taught in the American schools. It’s called evolution…

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 04:25 PM

Absolutely untrue. I have seen a science book or two, and nowhere in any  book, or elsewhere have I seen this folly before you posted it. To the best of my knowledge it is your own innovation, as unimpressive as it may be.
Who suggested I didn't accept germ theory? And gravity theory consists of several theories, laws, and hypotheses; "the theory of gravity" could refer to lots of things.

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What science book have you ever read in your life?

The reason why I mentioned the germ theory ect. is because all those theories are on the same plane and undisputed in the scientific community as the theory of evolution. So, if you do not accept the theory of evolution based on the facts, than by logic you should not accept the atomic theory ect. based on the same claim.

The only conclusion I can come up with is that it is your denial of evolution is not science or fact based, but purely religious based, a view I might add at odds with the rest of the Christian community.

#59 Mirrordin

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 05:01 PM

What science book have you ever read in your life?

The reason why I mentioned the germ theory ect. is because all those theories are on the same plane and undisputed in the scientific community as the theory of evolution. So, if you do not accept the theory of evolution based on the facts, than by logic you should not accept the atomic theory ect. based on the same claim.

The only conclusion I can come up with is that it is your denial of evolution is not science or fact based, but purely religious based, a view I might add at odds with the rest of the Christian community.

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Maybe because there is actaully evidence against the theory of evolution? Comparing it to other theories that we all know are real isn't a great argument I'm afraid.

#60 scott

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 05:26 PM

What science book have you ever read in your life?

The reason why I mentioned the germ theory ect. is because all those theories are on the same plane and undisputed in the scientific community as the theory of evolution. So, if you do not accept the theory of evolution based on the facts, than by logic you should not accept the atomic theory ect. based on the same claim.

The only conclusion I can come up with is that it is your denial of evolution is not science or fact based, but purely religious based, a view I might add at odds with the rest of the Christian community.

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You claim that the theory of evolution is based on facts... actually you claim alot of things without any supporting evidence. Yes there are facts about evolution, but evolution itself is not supported by facts.

Atomic theory is different, it's already been tested as fact. Evolution has not, so logically you need to start looking for evolutionary facts.

The only conclusion I can come up with is that your acceptance of evolution is not science or fact based, but purely imaginary, a view I might add at odds with reality.

Present your facts please, and oh dear, please just stop with the: It's mainstream man, so yeah uh.... it's true. Yes, please present the facts.




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