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Should School Teach Creationism?


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#81 Adam Nagy

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 06:52 AM

Come on, guys. Do either of you put that much trust in polling data? I'm not saying they're totally useless but is it worth all the effort to discuss the minutia?

What's more important either way...popular opinion or truth?

I don't care if 98% of the world believed the UN was going to save the world through polling data, I will follow the evidence and The Spirit of Christ.

#82 Adam Nagy

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 06:55 AM

The first thing we must do is make clear what evolution is exactly. It is a faith based designer substitute. Once people start realizing that lies are the primary support pillars for evolution then who cares if creation is intentionally taught or not? If we focus on the truth and the truth alone the path way becomes clear.

#83 de_skudd

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 07:04 AM

I didn't claim that you claimed that they were!

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I didn’t say you did, this was a reply to your statement “I don't think that they were in this case though” concerning numbers manipulation abilities by survey companies. My assertion was that I didn’t think they were, nor did I say they were, but neither you nor I know if they did (or not).

But, your childish retort could be met with the equally childish retort “Yes, but I claimed that you claimed that I claimed that you claimed I claimed they were!” But where would that get us.

Does it matter? You've made it completely clear that you don't like polls because you don't understand them, isn't that enough?

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This is just another misconception of yours, or twisting of truth on your part (I’ll let other readers be the judge). I fully understand polls, and the concept of polling. But, I also understand as well, that they (polls) are the opinions of a few, superimposed as a template (and made representative) as the opinions of the many. It’s a way to view a trend, but it IS NOT empirically sound. Wall Street uses this same type of science to project futures and such (and what’s happening on Wall Street right now?).

I worked with statistical information, recapitulation, prognostication (i.e. projection) for over eleven years Jason. I have more than a clue about how it works. So, if you want to use your misunderstanding of my post to “assume” that I don’t understand them (polls), it just shows either; your lack of rationalization or your willingness to purposively mislead the meaning of my statement. Either way, you didn’t get it.

I wasn't suggesting that Gallup did do this survey.  You were the one that said that

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Sorry Jason, but you are incorrect again. You are the one that brought up the Gallup organization (more than once), then attempted to transpose their reputation upon the organization that performed this survey. Now, I have absolutely no problem with either of these organizations **EXCEPT** for the FACT that polling IS prognostication… I, at no time said Gallup did the survey; you picked Gallup as the only pollster in the recent elections. But, as we all know, there were many pollsters involved in that debacle. And all of them made mistakes during exit polling in the primaries…

I was showing you that you were wrong using actual facts and data.  Please try to keep up.

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I see that you still don’t get it Jason.

You've caught them!  They are obviously making those numbers up!  Or maybe, just maybe, they don't want to have to mention every Baptist, American Baptist, Free Will Baptist, Full Gospel Baptist, Southern Baptist, or other Baptist?  Maybe it's easier to aggregate them into the group called Baptists?

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Again, you don’t get it, and that’s too bad… How many Baptist total did they question Jason? Now answer this question: How many Baptist (Total) are there in the USA? You obviously can’t understand the disparity here Jason. You obviously have a hard time understanding the chunk of gray area (or wiggle room) built into this divination. Then you fully (by faith) buy into using the word “MOST” for an unequally yoked team…

A sample of a population has now become a deficit?

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A sample population is a sample population. It can be used a cross-section, or a microcosm of a whole, to GUESS what MAY happen when trending. But, it is still only the opinion of a FEW, representative of the MAJORITY, and therefore MAY BE TOTALLY WRONG.

Everyone is abundantly qualified to answer the question: "What is your religion, if any?".  They aren't guessing.  If I were to ask you "What is your religion, if any?" would you be taking your best guess?

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Everyone IS abundantly qualified to answer the question… But they didn’t ask everyone, DID THEY?

Thanks for making that point clear.

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You are more than welcome Jason… I know facts hurt you, but it is a growing process. So I’ll post it again: , I personally, have no time for MANY polls, whether they favor my view or not, because they are based on PROGNASTIGATION (i.e. guessing). And yes, the only EMPIRICALLY accurate poll would be “where every single person is questioned”. To deny this would be unscientific.

#84 jason78

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 07:38 AM

I didn’t say you did, this was a reply to your statement “I don't think that they were in this case though” concerning numbers manipulation abilities by survey companies. My assertion was that I didn’t think they were, nor did I say they were, but neither you nor I know if they did (or not).

But, your childish retort could be met with the equally childish retort “Yes, but I claimed that you claimed that I claimed that you claimed I claimed they were!” But where would that get us.

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About as far as the rest of your posts it would seem.

This is just another misconception of yours, or twisting of truth on your part (I’ll let other readers be the judge). I fully understand polls, and the concept of polling. But, I also understand as well, that they (polls) are the opinions of a few, superimposed as a template (and made representative) as the opinions of the many. It’s a way to view a trend, but it IS NOT empirically sound. Wall Street uses this same type of science to project futures and such (and what’s happening on Wall Street right now?).

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A way to view a trend? Like which religions people are following today compared with what religions people were following 20 years ago?

I worked with statistical information, recapitulation, prognostication (i.e. projection) for over eleven years Jason. I have more than a clue about how it works. So, if you want to use your misunderstanding of my post to “assume” that I don’t understand them (polls), it just shows either; your lack of rationalization or your willingness to purposively mislead the meaning of my statement.

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I'll believe that when I see some evidence of it.

Sorry Jason, but you are incorrect again. You are the one that brought up the Gallup organization (more than once), then attempted to transpose their reputation upon the organization that performed this survey. Now, I have absolutely no problem with either of these organizations **EXCEPT** for the FACT that polling IS prognostication… I, at no time said Gallup did the survey; you picked Gallup as the only pollster in the recent elections. But, as we all know, there were many pollsters involved in that debacle. And all of them made mistakes during exit polling in the primaries…

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I didn't say that you said that Gallup did this survey. I quoted you after that. You should have read it as: You were the one that said that "many recent of the polls have been way off the mark of being statically correct. Take our last election cycle for instance."

I see that you still don’t get it Jason.
Again, you don’t get it, and that’s too bad… How many Baptist total did they question Jason? Now answer this question: How many Baptist (Total) are there in the USA? You obviously can’t understand the disparity here Jason. You obviously have a hard time understanding the chunk of gray area (or wiggle room) built into this divination. Then you fully (by faith) buy into using the word “MOST” for an unequally yoked team…
A sample population is a sample population. It can be used a cross-section, or a microcosm of a whole, to GUESS what MAY happen when trending. But, it is still only the opinion of a FEW, representative of the MAJORITY, and therefore MAY BE TOTALLY WRONG.
Everyone IS abundantly qualified to answer the question… But they didn’t ask everyone, DID THEY?
You are more than welcome Jason… I know facts hurt you, but it is a growing process. So I’ll post it again: , I personally, have no time for MANY polls, whether they favor my view or not, because they are based on PROGNASTIGATION (i.e. guessing). And yes, the only EMPIRICALLY accurate poll would be “where every single person is questioned”. To deny this would be unscientific.

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Didn't you say above that you had 11 years experience working with statistical data? Also, you appear to have a problem with your caps lock key. It seems to be sticky.

#85 de_skudd

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 08:42 AM

Didn't you say above that you had 11 years experience working with statistical data? 

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Must be selective reading Jason. That’s ok, my kids had the same problem with listening during adolescence as well.

Also, you appear to have a problem with your caps lock key.  It seems to be sticky.

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No problem Jason, intentional purpose is a tool used to point out intentional points to those who choose to ignore general facts. Were there a problem with my caps lock key, the capitalization would have been random as opposed to intentional.

#86 de_skudd

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 08:47 AM

Come on, guys. Do either of you put that much trust in polling data? I'm not saying they're totally useless but is it worth all the effort to discuss the minutia?
What's more important either way...popular opinion or truth?
I don't care if 98% of the world believed the UN was going to save the world through polling data, I will follow the evidence and The Spirit of Christ.

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Some people live by the opinions of others Adam, and the poll generated spin machines as well. Truth gets lost in the pseudo facts promulgated by the talking heads. And, hope above hope, people will start to believe the lie long enough to start pushing it in the public educational systems. Then, after enough time, it becomes the gospel of the secular masses…




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