If I am wrong, I asked you to provide the posts to prove I am wrong. It truly would never be my intent to put words in your mouth. I am merely exposing the skitzofrantic
nature of your theology, which is evidenced by the fact that, despite pleas from me from the beginning for you to answer simple, direct questions, that I put in bold
, and even said you could skip the rest of my post, you still chose not to answer them. In the rare circumstances where you have answered, the answers were vague. How many times in this thread have I asked you, in one form or another, if God for-ordained rapes and murder? I can remember at least 3 times. Here is your one vague answer in this thread -
Ã¢â‚¬Å“I have stated my belief that He manages everything
from a position of fore-knowledge.Ã¢â‚¬Â
This sure sounds like a YES to me (that God ordains all things, include rape & murder). Anyone else here think Suzie was answering No? If the answer is no, why not just say so? (all the while trying to explain why your theology demands otherwise). Because if you say no and try to defend it, you canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t without the underpinning theology being exposed as contradictory and skitzofrantic.
From another thread, we got this degrading comment -
Ã¢â‚¬Å“He has also made vessels of wrath whom He wishes to destroy, it's nobody's business folks I'm telling you, it's God's business.Ã¢â‚¬Â
It is our business, why else put it in the Bible for us to read? But it is also our business to understand the context. So I will ask you again, for the uptenth time, another version of the same question:Q1: Did God for-ordain Susan Smith to drown her kids? If no, explain in light of your comment that God Ã¢â‚¬Å“manages everything from a position of fore-knowledge.Ã¢â‚¬Â
Regarding Isaiah 45:9, I completely agree that this is relevant, but no less relevant than Jeremiah 18:5-10. The problem is that this page in Jeremiah is missing from your Bible because it completely refutes your position, hence youÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve long ago ripped it out in your mind. LetÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s go back to Isaiah 45:9. How does this support your claim that God intentionally created certain people to do wickedness? Notice the very first sentence of the passage you quoted: Isa 45:9 "Woe to him who strives with his Maker!Ã¢â‚¬Â
I AGREE. Do you? It seems you have some doctored Bible that instead says Ã¢â‚¬Å“Woe to him who strives to do something other than the evil I want him to do!Ã¢â‚¬Â
Regarding free-will starting 150 years ago, I searched for this and found the following post you made:http://www.evolution...indpost&p=47343
Your emphasis was on decision making, which you have time-and-time again made synonymous with free will (the strawman I mentioned). If you are prepared to retract your claim that free-will and decision making are the same thing, IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ll retract item #2.
IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m hoping some day youÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ll see the problem with having to continually sidestep questions and then contradict yourself in trying to defend a theology that at its core is skitzofrantic and impossible to defend with scripture, short of misinterpretation of a handful of verses that ultimately have been shown to be yanked far out of context.
Finally, you wrote:
Paul the great predestination preacher said "there dwelleth no good thing in me" I say the same, but there must have been some spark of virtue in Fred, he was able to discern his own sinfulness and God's virtue and Fred was wise enough to choose of his "own free will." I could never make such a boast as that before the Lord.
You have been pleaded with many times to discontinue this strawman. I do not think you are intentionally doing this, you are just being dense. However, you are wasting our time by forcing members to continually have to address this strawman. Since you are otherwise an outstanding member of this forum, I am going to ask the mod team to delete any post they see from you, in its entirety, if it includes this strawman argument that trust me, many of us are growing tired of answering.