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The Speed Of Light


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#201 stick

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 04:02 PM

So does nobody have a link to the paper?  I'd genuinely like to read it.

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well I've just spent quite a lot of my evening reading through all ten pages of this thread and I can tell you that there is no link to the paper as yet....

#202 Guest_martemius_*

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 04:05 PM

well I've just spent quite a lot of my evening reading through all ten pages  of this thread and I can tell you that there is no link to the paper as yet....

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Figures, I suppose. Somehow I'm guessing that most of the people defending the paper haven't even read it themselves...



(and thanks for wasting your evening so that I don't have to! :lol: )

#203 jason78

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 04:26 AM

I found this video on cosmology that some people might find interesting.

7ImvlS8PLIo

Not for the faint of heart, it does contain an introduction by Richard Dawkins, a swear word, maths, and cruelty to biologists. That notwithstanding, it is a very interesting introduction to cosmology.

#204 larrywj2

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 04:43 AM

I found this video on cosmology that some people might find interesting.

7ImvlS8PLIo

Not for the faint of heart, it does contain an introduction by Richard Dawkins, a swear word, maths, and cruelty to biologists.  That notwithstanding, it is a very interesting introduction to cosmology.

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I am watching, almost 4min17secs into it. Evo's etc. continuously contend they have no animosity for religion. In every speach, they continuously attack religions of every sort. If what they have to say is so true and uncontestable, why such a great fear of the opposition that they must ridicule? Or is it that, as any honest debator can tell you, they have don't believe their own argument so seek support beyond the context of the discussion?

#205 Guest_FrankH_*

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 06:24 AM

I am watching, almost 4min17secs into it.  Evo's etc. continuously contend they have no animosity for religion.  In every speach, they continuously attack religions of every sort.  If what they have to say is so true and uncontestable, why such a great fear of the opposition that they must ridicule?  Or is it that, as any honest debator can tell you, they have don't believe their own argument so seek support beyond the context of the discussion?

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It's what happens when you're constantly told "If you would only open your heart" which quickly turns to your honesty, how much you lie, that "you must believe in something and I'll say what that is", all the way to you're being duped and going to hell.

Yeah, these guys are hitting back at religion.

So do you contend that YECs don't do this to "evos"? For sure, many of you YECs critique and call Christian Theistic Evolutionists "Christianity" into question. If there was but one way to be a Christian, I hope all of you realize you most likely are living it as well.

#206 larrywj2

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 07:04 AM

So do you contend that YECs don't do this to "evos"?

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I can only make claim for myself. Search my posts, let me know?

We could all keep slinging mud and never get to honest debate. Hasn't worked so well yet.

Reminds me of the politicians in this session deflecting their errrors by remarking that the other side does it that way. Maybe we all need to quit allowing other people to set us a low standard and raise the bar on ourself.

I give you an open hand Frank.

#207 Guest_FrankH_*

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 07:10 AM

I can only make claim for myself.  Search my posts, let me know?

We could all keep slinging mud and never get to honest debate.  Hasn't worked so well yet.

Reminds me of the politicians in this session deflecting their errrors by remarking that the other side does it that way.  Maybe we all need to quit allowing other people to set us a low standard and raise the bar on ourself.

I give you an open hand Frank.

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That sounds good to me.

#208 jason78

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 08:38 AM

I am watching, almost 4min17secs into it.  Evo's etc. continuously contend they have no animosity for religion.  In every speach, they continuously attack religions of every sort.  If what they have to say is so true and uncontestable, why such a great fear of the opposition that they must ridicule?  Or is it that, as any honest debator can tell you, they have don't believe their own argument so seek support beyond the context of the discussion?

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I didn't post this video to be inflammatory. It was meant to be educational. Watch the whole thing and you'll find out the evidence cosmologists have to support the theories that they do.

#209 Guest_FrankH_*

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 08:49 AM

I didn't post this video to be inflammatory.  It was meant to be educational.  Watch the whole thing and you'll find out the evidence cosmologists have to support the theories that they do.

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I've seen it before and the reason I didn't post it here is though it has a great deal of information (and this information is backed up with volumes of peer reviewed and very scientific papers on it), I knew it would only serve to piss people off.

I wish they didn't start with the bad jokes and the anti-religious diatribe.

To be fair, listen to a Dembski or Johnson speech about evolution and what they say about it.

#210 jason78

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 11:37 AM

I've seen it before and the reason I didn't post it here is though it has a great deal of information (and this information is backed up with volumes of peer reviewed and very scientific papers on it), I knew it would only serve to piss people off.

I wish they didn't start with the bad jokes and the anti-religious diatribe.

To be fair, listen to a Dembski or Johnson speech about evolution and what they say about it.

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If you ignore all the jokes and jibes and focus on the actual information presented ( as I frequently do with Kent H*vind and VenomfangX videos) there's a lot to be learned about what cosmologists think about the universe and the facts they have to back it up.

#211 CTD

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 12:13 PM

If you ignore all the jokes and jibes and focus on the actual information presented ( as I frequently do with Kent H*vind and VenomfangX videos) there's a lot to be learned about what cosmologists think about the universe and the facts they have to back it up.

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Assumptions aren't facts; neither are conclusions derived from carefully chosen assumptions. Before I DL, I'd like to know if there's any disclosure and discussion of the assumptions involved in their "end product". If not, I may or may not waste my time.

#212 Guest_martemius_*

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 12:22 PM

Okay, so once again, can nobody provide a link to the paper that demonstrates conclusive proof that the speed of light is slowing down? I wouldn't think that this should be so difficult...

#213 Loungehead

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 12:38 PM

It's what happens when you're constantly told "If you would only open your heart" which quickly turns to your honesty, how much you lie, that "you must believe in something and I'll say what that is", all the way to you're being duped and going to hell.

Frank, that's a little misrepresenting.

It's usually, "If you would only open your heart", followed by, "open your wallets".

:lol:

Jokes aside, I find it a bit rich that some here are offended by the ridicule. People here claim evolution is a religion, which I agree, but at the same time ridicule those who hold evolutionary beliefs.

It gets worse... this entire forum is dedicated to religious intolerance. You can't get anymore intolerant than positing one religion (Creation) in relation to another religion (Evolution), as a matter of debate, to prove why one is true and the other false. It would be like setting up a forum Christianity vs. Hinduism, with the aim to present arguments why hinduism is false.

What is more insulting and intolerant than saying someone elses beliefs are false, and creating a forum in which to do that? But it happens here every day, and we are all culpable for it.

#214 CTD

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 04:19 AM

Frank, that's a little misrepresenting.

It's usually, "If you would only open your heart", followed by, "open your wallets".

:D

Jokes aside, I find it a bit rich that some here are offended by the ridicule.  People here claim evolution is a religion, which I agree, but at the same time ridicule those who hold evolutionary beliefs.

It gets worse... this entire forum is dedicated to religious intolerance.  You can't get anymore intolerant than positing one religion (Creation) in relation to another religion (Evolution), as a matter of debate, to prove why one is true and the other false.  It would be like setting up a forum Christianity vs. Hinduism, with the aim to present arguments why hinduism is false. 

What is more insulting and intolerant than saying someone elses beliefs are false, and creating a forum in which to do that?  But it happens here every day, and we are all culpable for it.

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Intolerance? Rejection of falsehood is not intolerance. If you're idea of "tolerance" is letting someone tell you 2 + 2 =417, then you just go right ahead and believe that.

#215 Ron

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 05:27 AM

Frank, that's a little misrepresenting.

It's usually, "If you would only open your heart", followed by, "open your wallets".

:D

Jokes aside, I find it a bit rich that some here are offended by the ridicule.  People here claim evolution is a religion, which I agree, but at the same time ridicule those who hold evolutionary beliefs.

It gets worse... this entire forum is dedicated to religious intolerance.  You can't get anymore intolerant than positing one religion (Creation) in relation to another religion (Evolution), as a matter of debate, to prove why one is true and the other false.  It would be like setting up a forum Christianity vs. Hinduism, with the aim to present arguments why hinduism is false. 

What is more insulting and intolerant than saying someone elses beliefs are false, and creating a forum in which to do that?  But it happens here every day, and we are all culpable for it.

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Simply due to the fact that our religions (yours and mine) are diametrically opposed and you are coming here to argue for yours. You are, therefore, being no less intolerant. Now, you also have to keep in mind, I (in no way) ridiculed your previous religion (the belief that macro-evolution was a fact). I simply pointed out the fact that it is a religion. To which, you now agree (where you didn’t before).

#216 Ron

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 05:32 AM

It's what happens when you're constantly told "If you would only open your heart" which quickly turns to your honesty, how much you lie, that "you must believe in something and I'll say what that is", all the way to you're being duped and going to hell.

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It is no less religious than opening your heart to evolution Frank. And to call it a lie, is itself a lie. Because of the simple fact that you are here dogmatically defending your religion of evolution, you must be telling a lie as well (based on your logic here).

What you fail to realize is that you are being dishonest (based on your logic) when you attampt to redicule a Christian for believeing in God, then you, in the same breath, spout forth your faith in evolution.

#217 Loungehead

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 05:53 AM

Intolerance? Rejection of falsehood is not intolerance. If you're idea of "tolerance" is letting someone tell you 2 + 2 =417, then you just go right ahead and believe that.

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If my religion says 2 + 2 = 417 and your religion says 2 + 2 = 714, what is there to debate? We have different faiths, and both believe in the truth of our faiths. So what is the point of trying to expose absurdity in each others faith, or publically reject what we perceive as falsehoods?

If we were truly tolerant of other peoples religion, we wouldn't laugh at their ideas or claim they are from a sick mind.

Do you think a forum dedicated to Christianity vs. Hinduism would be a worthwhile subject? Would it be okay to point out the ridiculousness of multiple (false) gods. And claim that hindu creation stories are ramblings, double-talk and "symptoms consistent with dangerously advanced hindusickness"?

#218 Guest_martemius_*

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 03:47 PM

"If my religion says 2 + 2 = 417 and your religion says 2 + 2 = 714, what is there to debate?"
Well, there's the simple fact that you'd both be objectively wrong.

#219 larrywj2

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 03:53 PM

Frank, that's a little misrepresenting.

It's usually, "If you would only open your heart", followed by, "open your wallets".

:blink:

Jokes aside, I find it a bit rich that some here are offended by the ridicule.  People here claim evolution is a religion, which I agree, but at the same time ridicule those who hold evolutionary beliefs.

It gets worse... this entire forum is dedicated to religious intolerance.  You can't get anymore intolerant than positing one religion (Creation) in relation to another religion (Evolution), as a matter of debate, to prove why one is true and the other false.  It would be like setting up a forum Christianity vs. Hinduism, with the aim to present arguments why hinduism is false. 

What is more insulting and intolerant than saying someone elses beliefs are false, and creating a forum in which to do that?  But it happens here every day, and we are all culpable for it.

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Tolerance is acceptancing the existance of. Not an agreement to not debate.

#220 Ron

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 04:17 PM

"If my religion says 2 + 2 = 417 and your religion says 2 + 2 = 714, what is there to debate?"
Well, there's the simple fact that you'd both be objectively wrong.

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That is correct... Absolutely correct... 2+2 absolutely equals four!

Absolutely!!!




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