Jump to content


Photo

All Is Not Well.


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
31 replies to this topic

#1 CTD

CTD

    Banned

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,059 posts
  • Age: 44
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Missouri

Posted 23 August 2009 - 07:00 PM

Discovered on another forum

http://www.naturalne...ble_energy.html

(NaturalNews) One in seven scientists report that they have known colleagues to falsify or slant the findings of their research, according to a study conducted by researchers from the University of Edinburgh, Scotland, and published in the journal PLoS One.

...

The researchers reviewed the results of 21 different scientific misconduct surveys that had been performed between 1985 and 2005. All respondents were asked whether they or anyone they knew of had taken part in either fabrication (outright invention of data) or "questionable practices."

...

One in seven scientists said that they were aware of colleagues who had engaged in fabrication, while nearly half -- 46 percent -- admitted to knowing of colleagues who had used questionable practices. Only two percent, however, admitted to fabricating results themselves.


This serves to highlight what I've said before:

1.) Without history, there is no other science
2.) Because all other science relies upon history, no other science can be more reliable. The maximum limit for reliability is set by the limit of history.

The reason is simple. Except in cases where one does the observing oneself, one relies upon the reports made by others. These reports of past events are history.

View Post

Due to our understanding of human nature, it is customary to presume the results of such studies understate the problem. The reason is that honest people do not desire to falsely report dishonesty, while dishonest people will gladly omit to report it.

#2 Adam Nagy

Adam Nagy

    Honorable Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,053 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Age: 37
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Posted 23 August 2009 - 07:20 PM

I thought when people put white lab coats on it equaled truth serum. ;)

#3 Arch

Arch

    Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 961 posts
  • Age: 21
  • no affiliation
  • Atheist
  • Australia

Posted 23 August 2009 - 07:51 PM

What I'd like to see now is a study that checks if scientists slant the results of other scientists tests. In other words, how effective is the peer review process? If results are skewed by one scientists, are they usually picked up by a peer?

Regards,

Arch.

#4 de_skudd

de_skudd

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,518 posts
  • Location:North Augusta, SC
  • Interests:reading, learning, talking and stuff
  • Age: 41
  • no affiliation
  • Creationist
  • North Augusta, SC

Posted 24 August 2009 - 07:08 AM

Discovered on another forum

http://www.naturalne...ble_energy.html
This serves to highlight what I've said before:

Due to our understanding of human nature, it is customary to presume the results of such studies understate the problem. The reason is that honest people do not desire to falsely report dishonesty, while dishonest people will gladly omit to report it.

View Post


Then there's this quote:


Increasing evidence suggests that known frauds are just the tip of the iceberg and that many cases are never discovered

View Post



#5 de_skudd

de_skudd

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,518 posts
  • Location:North Augusta, SC
  • Interests:reading, learning, talking and stuff
  • Age: 41
  • no affiliation
  • Creationist
  • North Augusta, SC

Posted 24 August 2009 - 07:10 AM

I thought when people put white lab coats on it equaled truth serum. ;)

View Post


Hey, I have a white lab coat :lol:

I'll just start wearing it every time I post here. Then everyone will have to believe what I say! :o


:D

#6 Adam Nagy

Adam Nagy

    Honorable Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,053 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Age: 37
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Posted 24 August 2009 - 07:36 AM

What I'd like to see now is a study that checks if scientists slant the results of other scientists tests. In other words, how effective is the peer review process? If results are skewed by one scientists, are they usually picked up by a peer?

View Post

Look at a very scientific and very change oriented field and how they are handled by the public and you will see the pedestal that scientists are placed on and the trash can their thrown in the moment they make a mistake.

Modern day scientists are very much revered and despised like profits of old. The field that is most obvious for this patterns of love/hate is the medical profession. We'll go to the doctor every day and get medicine that cures nothing but simply shuts the pain off. However, the moment a doctor makes a mistake they get sued!

Go to the academic sciences and the result is essentially the same. Sure there are many things you can question and postulate within 'reason'. Once you get out of the accepted paradigm, you're fired like a contagious disease ridden leper.

Now you tell me, are scientific fields of inquiry free of pressure and open to plain and simple truth?

Hey, if I have an elaborate science experiment that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, that I know was corrupted by a mistake I made, I wonder what I can say to keep my job and cover up the problem? As much as it cost, it's not like I have to worry about anybody repeating it anytime soon.

#7 Adam Nagy

Adam Nagy

    Honorable Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,053 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Age: 37
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Posted 24 August 2009 - 07:42 AM

BTW, before anybody walks away thinking that I believe scientists or doctors are horrible people, they are no more horrible than the rest of us. They're people. The moment we get it in to our heads that scientists aren't just simply doing experiments but they're also thinking about their nagging wife and their teenage daughter who was just caught getting drunk and that new Mercedes that they aren't sure if they can afford and put these people in a position of being normal humans then we can scrutinize their beliefs right along with everyone else without feeling like we're committing a social sin.

#8 Adam Nagy

Adam Nagy

    Honorable Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,053 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Age: 37
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Posted 24 August 2009 - 08:01 AM

Hey, I have a white lab coat  :lol:

I'll just start wearing it every time I post here. Then everyone will have to believe what I say!  :D

View Post

You'll have to put a picture of yourself wearing it in your avatar to have any impact. Just don't wear the shades you had on in that picture Occam posted because that will defeat the purpose. ;)

#9 Javabean

Javabean

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 950 posts
  • Location:Harrisburg Pa
  • Age: 33
  • no affiliation
  • Atheist
  • Harrisburg

Posted 24 August 2009 - 01:49 PM

I'm more saddened by this than surprised.

One thing to keep in mind though while you think about this. Yes we are all human and capable of acting dishonestly, this does not mean that the majority do so. Once someone starts to practice dishonestly its only a matter of time till someone takes notice.

Also some Scientists feel backed into a corner when a new theory comes out that disproves their own theory, or better explains something that they are trying to describe. So they will fight against the challenging theory until the day they die. People just don't like to admit when they are wrong. Well some of us don't. I'm more than happy to admit it :lol:

But this applies to all walks of life.

#10 Adam Nagy

Adam Nagy

    Honorable Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,053 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Age: 37
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Posted 24 August 2009 - 08:45 PM

Yes we are all human and capable of acting dishonestly, this does not mean that the majority do so.

View Post

If you can bring me a person who says they have never lied, I'll show you one that's lying right there. :rolleyes:

You know post-modernism isn't all wrong. It recognizes our finiteness and in one way it doesn't even go far enough. Not only are we finite but we're crooked too.

#11 ikester7579

ikester7579

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,500 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida
  • Interests:God, creation, etc...
  • Age: 48
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • I'm non-denominational

Posted 24 August 2009 - 10:29 PM

With all due respect, it does not feel good when the shoe is on the other foot. I oftened wondered how evolutionists would react if what I have always suspected had some proof to it.

Someone will find a way to discredit this and those who particapated. Watch and learn.

#12 de_skudd

de_skudd

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,518 posts
  • Location:North Augusta, SC
  • Interests:reading, learning, talking and stuff
  • Age: 41
  • no affiliation
  • Creationist
  • North Augusta, SC

Posted 25 August 2009 - 04:58 AM

You know post-modernism isn't all wrong. It recognizes our finiteness and in one way it doesn't even go far enough. Not only are we finite but we're crooked too.

View Post


Yes, I suppose if you remove enough truth to make something comfortable, you'll never feel the heat rising to dangerous levels. :rolleyes:

#13 Adam Nagy

Adam Nagy

    Honorable Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,053 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Age: 37
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Posted 25 August 2009 - 05:52 AM

With all due respect, it does not feel good when the shoe is on the other foot. I oftened wondered how evolutionists would react if what I have always suspected had some proof to it.

Someone will find a way to discredit this and those who particapated. Watch and learn.

View Post

Can you expand this a little?

#14 Javabean

Javabean

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 950 posts
  • Location:Harrisburg Pa
  • Age: 33
  • no affiliation
  • Atheist
  • Harrisburg

Posted 25 August 2009 - 06:02 AM

Can you expand this a little?

View Post



Ike is referring to the article i believe. That Evolutionists will find a way to explain around it. Or state that it doesn't apply to them.

Am I right here Ike???

#15 CTD

CTD

    Banned

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,059 posts
  • Age: 44
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Missouri

Posted 25 August 2009 - 07:14 AM

Can you expand this a little?

View Post

That might take a while. The history of "whistle-blowers" is consistent across all industries. This particular industry has a significant number of people who pride themselves on their cowardice and vindictiveness.

#16 Adam Nagy

Adam Nagy

    Honorable Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,053 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Age: 37
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Posted 25 August 2009 - 07:15 AM

Ike is referring to the article i believe.  That Evolutionists will find a way to explain around it.  Or state that it doesn't apply to them.

Am I right here Ike???

View Post

Oh, okay. I get it now.

#17 Adam Nagy

Adam Nagy

    Honorable Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,053 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Age: 37
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Posted 25 August 2009 - 07:21 AM

I just like to admit right up front that I'm a slimy deceptive jerk that deserves the full force of Hell. It's true. How quickly I'll try to cover my own butt, even with stupid insignificant things. Just ask my wife. I'm ridiculous. :P

I praise God for Jesus. The weird thing is that I have this thing swelling up inside me that wants righteousness.

Now when someone tells me I'm a jerk and a conniver, I can agree with them and maybe even tell them that it's worse then they think, so we can move on to business. Who wants to focus on my stupidity anyway? It's stupid. :D

#18 Javabean

Javabean

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 950 posts
  • Location:Harrisburg Pa
  • Age: 33
  • no affiliation
  • Atheist
  • Harrisburg

Posted 25 August 2009 - 09:20 PM

I just like to admit right up front that I'm a slimy deceptive jerk that deserves the full force of Hell. It's true. How quickly I'll try to cover my own butt, even with stupid insignificant things. Just ask my wife. I'm ridiculous. :P

I praise God for Jesus. The weird thing is that I have this thing swelling up inside me that wants righteousness.

Now when someone tells me I'm a jerk and a conniver, I can agree with them and maybe even tell them that it's worse then they think, so we can move on to business. Who wants to focus on my stupidity anyway? It's stupid. :P

View Post



EWE Gross Adam you need to take a bath if your covered in Slime!!!! :D

On a more serious note, I think some deviousness is a good thing. It helps keep our society moving smoothly. I mean you wouldn't tell you wife everyday that you hate her hair style, which would be honest if you did truly hate it. Can you imagine the friction that would cause???

But deception on reports, on scientific inquiry, on religion is just uncalled for. Let the facts fall where they may. Don't try to wiggle them to fit your claims. And don't just brush off ideas that are different than yours. There may be something there worth looking into.

#19 Bex

Bex

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,066 posts
  • Interests:God, creation, friends/family, animals, health topics, auto/biographies, movies (horror, comedy, drama, whatever, just as long as it's good), music, video games (mainly survival horror, or survival/adventure types), crossword puzzles, books on real life crime/serial killers/etc. Prophecy/miracles/supernatural/hauntings etc, net surfing/forums etc.<br /><br />One of my favourite forums for information on many topics:<br /><br />http://orbisvitae.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm
  • Age: 38
  • Christian
  • Creationist
  • New Zealand

Posted 26 August 2009 - 12:59 AM

On a more serious note, I think some deviousness is a good thing.  It helps keep our society moving smoothly.  I mean you wouldn't tell you wife everyday that you hate her hair style, which would be honest if you did truly hate it.  Can you imagine the friction that would cause???


I wouldn't equate tactfulness as being devious. There's a difference. Deviousness is deliberate dishonesty. But holding back on giving a blunt opinion for fear of hurting somebody's feelings (when it would be unnecessary to do so) is a different matter IMO.

Not telling a wife that her hairstyle is horrible is probably the sign of a wise man :P They are other ways to deliver a negative opinion that can speak the truth, but perhaps soften the blow!

But deception on reports, on scientific inquiry, on religion is just uncalled for.  Let the facts fall where they may.  Don't try to wiggle them to fit your claims.  And don't just brush off ideas that are different than yours.  There may be something there worth looking into.


I could not agree with you more! Hard though, because we all have our bias.

#20 ikester7579

ikester7579

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,500 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida
  • Interests:God, creation, etc...
  • Age: 48
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • I'm non-denominational

Posted 26 August 2009 - 02:04 AM

Ike is referring to the article i believe.  That Evolutionists will find a way to explain around it.  Or state that it doesn't apply to them.

Am I right here Ike???

View Post


You are right. But I also suspect the article. I have come to learn that atheist like to play parody games. The report seems like it could be just that.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users