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S*xism In The Bible


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#21 Isabella

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 03:04 PM

BTW, The Bible gives a reason for man’s authority in the church – women are easier to deceive (1 Tim 2:12-14), and thus allow Satan easier access to control the church.

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Where is the evidence for this? Has anyone done a controlled study which explicitly proves that women are more gullible? The ability to think logically and use reasoning skills is a measure of intelligence. Deception essentially preys on those who don’t know enough about the given topic to tell fact from fiction. It’s easy to deceive a child because they know so little about how the world works, and are less intelligent than an adult. To me, this is another way of saying women are less intelligent and almost child-like in their willingness to believe things.

BTW, if you doubt what I say, explain to us why women prefer to have men come with them when they buy a used car.

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I’ve actually never heard that. But I would imagine it would simply be because men tend to know more about cars since they are generally more interested in that topic. It’s definitely easier to be deceived if you know very little about the topic, regardless of gender.

I think Women believe this, especially the control part.

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Maybe some do.

Spritually, yes. Physically and emotionally, of course not. It's comparing apples to oranges. Women are much more stronger emotionally, ie they can survive loss much better than us fragile men.

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Again, I have never seen evidence for this. But I’m not talking about physical equality or emotional equality right now. I’m talking about the right to hold a position of power in an institution and be viewed as an equal (in terms of intelligence, amount of authority, ect.) in everyday life. Those are the areas where I think there needs to be equality.

Christianity is the only religion that puts women on a pedestal.

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I’d hardly call it a pedestal. According to Christianity, men are still in control. But less control than the men in other religions get to have.
And as for your Bible verses, I said earlier that I’ve been shown the exceptions multiple times and I don’t need to see them again. I am well aware that some- perhaps even many- parts of the Bible suggest equality. But many do not.

#22 ikester7579

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 09:57 PM

Basically, I'm going to give an example by something I experienced.

It's a known fact that women like to gossip. It just happens to be the way their brain is wired. God knew this. What is gossip? It's when someone spreads a rumor about someone that the subject is basically none of their business (true or not).

A church I used to go to got caught up in gossip. It was a group of women and everyone knew who they were. But they thought that it was within their right to talk about other people as long as most of what they said was true about the person whom they spoke about. The reason I know this is because my mother used to be friends with the ring leader of that gossip group.

Every time my mother would say something to her, her excuse always was: If it's true it's not gossip. Which is not so. If it's none of your business, nor anyone else's, it's gossip.

Anyway, because the pastor would not stand up to the women, but allowed it to continue. It got really bad. I left the church about a year before my mother did. The church when I first started before the gossip got bad, had every seat full every night. After verbal fights broke out between people in the congregation,and some between the pastor. Several people left.

The last time I went it was only half the size it used to be. And the same gossip ring leaders still go there.

So the main reason I believe it is said in the Bible that women should not speak in the church is because of their tendency to gossip.

Another example: A pastor I listen to on TV quite often (John Hagee), who is the type that will tell it like it is whether anyone likes it or not. Told a story once of a woman who actually came to his church to join it. She met the pastor and proceeded to tell him this: Pastor, when I go to church, I often talk about people. I don't know what it is that makes me do it. But I say things about people whether they are true or not. I find myself making up stories etc... to keep people's interest. The pastor proceeded to tell her: If you ever spread rumors about anyone in this church, and it gets back to me. I will take you and stand you before the whole congregation. Repeat what you said, and who you said it about. And give your name and phone number.

The woman said: I don't think I'm going to like your church, the pastor said: I don't think you will either. So she walk out and never came back.

Now if the pastor at the church I go to would have done that when the gossiping started, we would have gotten rid of the trouble makers, or they would have straighten up. And all the bad things that did happen would not have happened.

#23 Fred Williams

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 11:39 PM

Isabella (nice name BTW), please answer this one question before we continue, so that I know whether or not you are interested in a serious conversation. Are men generally stronger physically than women, yes or no? If no, then we can consider this convo, and thread, over. If yes, do you think this means men and women are not equal, that man is superior to woman? Or maybe we are just different in certain ways?

Where is the evidence for this? Has anyone done a controlled study which explicitly proves that women are more gullible?


The notion that women ask men to go to the used car lot because we know more about cars may be part of the reason for some, but the two times I was asked had EVERYTHING to do with the woman not getting ripped off (just ask my friends what I know about cars, no more than you do). But I have even better evidence. There is a poll that is as scientific as you can possibly get! I ask you to dare try to refute it! The following is based on a worldview where Democrats are generally anti-Bible, and Republicans are generally pro-Bible. So here it is - Not a single Democratic President since LBJ would have won the election if only males could vote. Ford would have beat Carter, Bush 1 would have beat Clinton, Dole would have beat Clinton, McCain would have beaten Obama. In addition, several democratic challengers would have won if only the women were allowed to vote, Al Gore would have beat Bush, and John Kerry would have beaten Bush, by BIG margins. What more proof does one need? Now you could say, based on your worldview, that these women happened to make the better choice, but you are asking for a perspective from a Biblical worldview, and it is clear that women are easier to sway against the candidate who is more likely to have a Biblical worldview. Does this mean a disproportionate number of women are anti-Bible? No! Men are not superior because we are less likely to be duped, in fact there is a balance since men will willfully go along with a deception. We’re equally flawed, we’re just flawed in different ways, after all, we are DIFFERENT.

Again, I have never seen evidence for this (women are emotionally stronger).


Well, now you have and it is overwhelming. Just ask any life insurance agent. When a man loses his spouse, the man’s life expectancy drops dramatically. I worked with a guy who lost his wife when he was 56 years old. He was in perfect health, but died 1 year later due to natural causes. It would have been better stated that he died of a lonely heart. Men are very weak emotionally. Women on the other hand can lose a spouse and emotionally move on and have virtually no impact on their life expectancy. Again, if you don’t believe me, just ask any reputable life insurance agent.

I’d hardly call it a pedestal. According to Christianity, men are still in control. But less control than the men in other religions get to have. And as for your Bible verses, I said earlier that I’ve been shown the exceptions multiple times and I don’t need to see them again. I am well aware that some- perhaps even many- parts of the Bible suggest equality. But many do not.


It again depends on what you mean by equality. We are not equal in strength, or in emotion, as I have previously described. But the sum parts we are equal. Most important of all, we are equal in God’s eyes, he shows NO partiality (Romans 2).

One last question. You seem to quietly admit that the Bible’s view of women is better than the other religions. Since you admit to this, I’m wondering if you have spent any time at all on the Islam sites asking why Muslims and the Koran degrades women? What about Mormon sites and how their prophets could choose their wife from the crowd, even if the woman was already spoken for? Have you visited Hindu sites and asked how come women are treated as 2nd hand citizens? What is it about the Bible that gravitates you to attack it and not the others that you already admitted treat women worse?

Fred

#24 the totton linnet

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 02:44 AM

Where is the evidence for this? Has anyone done a controlled study which explicitly proves that women are more gullible? The ability to think logically and use reasoning skills is a measure of intelligence. Deception essentially preys on those who don’t know enough about the given topic to tell fact from fiction. It’s easy to deceive a child because they know so little about how the world works, and are less intelligent than an adult. To me, this is another way of saying women are less intelligent and almost child-like in their willingness to believe things.

I’ve actually never heard that. But I would imagine it would simply be because men tend to know more about cars since they are generally more interested in that topic. It’s definitely easier to be deceived if you know very little about the topic, regardless of gender.

Maybe some do.

Again, I have never seen evidence for this. But I’m not talking about physical equality or emotional equality right now. I’m talking about the right to hold a position of power in an institution and be viewed as an equal (in terms of intelligence, amount of authority, ect.) in everyday life. Those are the areas where I think there needs to be equality.

I’d hardly call it a pedestal. According to Christianity, men are still in control. But less control than the men in other religions get to have.
And as for your Bible verses, I said earlier that I’ve been shown the exceptions multiple times and I don’t need to see them again. I am well aware that some- perhaps even many- parts of the Bible suggest equality. But many do not.

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You can object about somethings that are manifestly true and you would be rediculed, for instance you might object because the sun is in the sky, that's foolish.
It is not quite so manifestly true that women are to be in submission to the men in church, it's a teaching for the church, why should a nonbeliever get incensed about it?
The men are in submission, they are in submission to Christ [or ought to be] I just do not have a problem with it.
St Paul in talking about submission says that men are to care for their women in the same way that Christ cares for the church, we are a people who are bought not by money but by Christ's own life blood. We know this love each one personally as well as individual fellowships and the church universal, we are not our own, we belong to Him.
You can laugh at the sheep following their Shepherd, [funny things sheep-they are not great and mighty creatures] but don't you see that ALL mankind are gregarious, a social people, all are following someone.
All are in submission too, to local govts and national, nobody really steps far outside social protocol, culture, philosophies. Everyone is in submission.
How many people can survive in total isolation-are they happy or fulfilled if they do?
What [in the church] can the man do that a woman cannot? I am not here interested in the visible hierarchical church, that pattern of church structure is not the bible pattern, I mean episcopalian with a structure of higher and higher authority, we are bible, all are brothers and sisters on the same level.
Can a man pray in church? so can a woman, can a man preach in church? so can a woman, can a man write hymns? can he testify the wonderful things God has done for him? so can a woman. As far as church life is concerned who wants anything more than this?
Why would anybody want to control someone elses life? or be in authority over someone else? man or woman? if that kind of control spirit is in any church there is a problem anyway, it is alien to the church.
We are to serve not control, and that is the way to success in the church, serve, if you have a heart to reach out and help people, people will gather around you, the needy will come, to them at least you will be important. If you have eyes to see it these servant people are still even today are the ones that rise to places of influence in the church.
I can never remember the name of the Archbishop of England, don't know who is bishop of my home town, who cares? who pays any attention to them anyway? whether man or female they bore the pants off of everyone.
Women want to a ministry? want to be important? why don't you bake some cakes and take it to some poor family with lots of children. Go and make up a flask of hot soup and find someon sleeping in the doorway. To them at least you will be special.
I don't have a problem with submitting to the men, I visited a fellowship where they do not allow women to speak, well I just went somewhere else where they had a more biblical outlook.

#25 Ron

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 05:57 AM

Isabella (nice name BTW), please answer this one question before we continue, so that I know whether or not you are interested in a serious conversation. Are men generally stronger physically than women, yes or no? If no, then we can consider this convo, and thread, over. If yes, do you think this means men and women are not equal, that man is superior to woman? Or maybe we are just different in certain ways?

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Fred,

I have no doubt Isabella will attempt the "well there are some women who are stronger than some men", or the "define strength" tactic, both of which are equivocations, and not answers to your direct question.

The argument from the beginning was an attempt to spin, and/or take out of context (historically, culturally and literally) the scriptures attacked.

#26 Adam Nagy

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 07:06 AM

What really amazes me is the abject refusal of feminists to see the historical reality of what occurred when Jesus set things straight by demonstrating the Spirit of the Law. Women flocked to Him because the truth He shared resonated with their own spirits. In a time when women were practically treated like animals at the behest of corrupt men, Jesus elevated them to their proper role. The woman at the well was the first Samaritan missionary. Women were the first to see and share the truth of the resurrection. Jesus greatly loved Mary and Martha. Women knew that what Jesus had on offer wasn't the status quo of oppressing women.

There are some verses, like the ones mentioned above, that I struggle with and it might be my own bias to see women's equality. I believe in a mature state there is no servitude that's demeaning to women but instead there is proper elevation and joy in the role designed by God:

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.


Compared to this world and the sacrifice of women to throw off the 'shackles of nature', by declaring their right to murder their own child as a stance of 'equality', an honest onlooker can see that what feminists have on offer today is a complete perversion.

Or for a less volatile subject... Consider how women thought joy would come from being career oriented and running after success through the financial/labor markets. Most whether agnostic, Christian or otherwise will gladly admit that their desire is to tend to the needs of their family rather than fulfilling the financial needs of the household. I know exceptions can be found but we are talking about the norm.

What does it mean when women take steroids and become body builders? Women have a designed role where they can find great joy but this world, in its twisted pursuits, thinks women being men is equality. I say; What's wrong with women being women?

The last point I want to make is this. In situations of disagreement, where compromise is hard to find, or order is needed to press forward, God has set up an authority structure that helps distribute responsibility in a way that decisions can be made.

As the head of my household, and as a Christ centered man who seeks first the kingdom of God, and my wife that finds her joy in the Lord, I never have to declare my position as 'the head'. It falls out naturally. My wife never gets oppressed. We sometime argue and can't make decisions. She knows though, when I make a decision where compromise is nowhere to be found, that responsibility for the decision falls on my head. When things go wrong in these situations it ain't nobody's fault but mine. :huh:


:huh:

#27 Fred Williams

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 08:42 AM

As the head of my household, and as a Christ centered man who seeks first the kingdom of God, and my wife that finds her joy in the Lord, I never have to declare my position as 'the head'. It falls out naturally. My wife never gets oppressed. We sometime argue and can't make decisions. She knows though, when I make a decision where compromise is nowhere to be found, that responsibility for the decision falls on my head. When things go wrong in these situations it ain't nobody's fault but mine. :huh:
:D

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Thanks Adam, very well put. God counsels us to seek the wisdom of our wives and make informed decisions (ie Gen 21:12). My wife and I recognize that in those few occasions where we are deadlocked, I've been given the tie-breaker vote. But I'm also responsible for the consequences if I'm wrong, and believe me, I've made the wrong choice more than once. :huh: :(

The authority given men is something not to be abused, but unfortunately it often is, which of course is unBiblical. I would again ask Isabella why she isn't taking her complaint to the religions that actually teach men to abuse their authority.

Fred

#28 Isabella

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 06:25 PM

It's a known fact that women like to gossip. It just happens to be the way their brain is wired. God knew this. What is gossip? It's when someone spreads a rumor about someone that the subject is basically none of their business (true or not).

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I could just as easily say “It’s a well known fact that men like to lie” and then provide a couple of examples where men lied. Women are not “wired” to gossip. We do, however, tend to gravitate towards being social and spending a great deal of time talking. Inevitably, some of this talk will be gossip. But men gossip too, although they probably don’t think of it that way. A large group of women drinking coffee and whispering and giggling is sort of the stereotypical view of gossip. But I have male friends, and I know they’re just as bad. It may happen while they’re working out at the gym, sitting in front of the TV watching the game, or taking a lunch break at work. Simple things like, “Hey, did you hear Bob got fired?” or “Did you know John and his wife have been talking about a divorce?” Sharing a fact might not seem like gossip, but it absolutely is and I know that men do it. Some of the worst rumours I’ve heard have been passed on to me by male friends rather than female.

Isabella (nice name BTW), please answer this one question before we continue, so that I know whether or not you are interested in a serious conversation. Are men generally stronger physically than women, yes or no? If no, then we can consider this convo, and thread, over. If yes, do you think this means men and women are not equal, that man is superior to woman? Or maybe we are just different in certain ways?

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Thanks for the compliment :) . I already addressed the topic of physical strength in one of my previous posts:

Physical strength doesn’t equal control, at least in any civilized culture. Strength only gives a person control if they intend to use their strength to attain that control. But that’s called abuse, and can land you in jail. If men were intended to be in control, they would have bigger brains, not bigger muscles.

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So yes, I realize that men are generally stronger than women. But does this make any difference? Not unless we want to regress to a society in which power is attained through physical forcefulness. This should be especially easy for a creationist to see, because from your point of view humans are set apart from animals NOT by physical ability but by psychological/spiritual qualities.

The following is based on a worldview where Democrats are generally anti-Bible, and Republicans are generally pro-Bible. So here it is - Not a single Democratic President since LBJ would have won the election if only males could vote.

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This would be an excellent example if I were in agreement that voting Democrat is an example of deception. But I do not agree, and so your example essentially proves nothing to me (also, I’m Canadian. We don’t use the same democrat/republican system here, which makes it even less relatable). Perhaps a better example would be to take a look at modern day advertising. Deception is a common advertising technique, and a very effective one. But notice that there are an equal number of commercials geared towards women as there are towards men.

For women, there are numerous makeup, clothing, and weight loss commercials which all have the same deceptive message: Buy our product, it will make you beautiful and happy! And women believe this, and the product sells.
For men, there are car, beer, and body spray commercials which again have a deceptive message: Buy our product, you will automatically attract beautiful women!

Look at your typical beer commercial if you need an example. Beer has been advertised in the same fashion for years, and the fact that the advertising hasn’t changed means that the technique obviously works. Have you ever seen ads for Axe body spray? Again, the deceptive message is that using the product will automatically make you irresistible to attractive women. And variations of these commercials have been aired with increasing frequency since the product came out, which means that it’s working.

Men and women are equally likely to be influenced by deception in advertising. All you have to do is turn on your TV to prove this to yourself.

Women on the other hand can lose a spouse and emotionally move on and have virtually no impact on their life expectancy. Again, if you don’t believe me, just ask any reputable life insurance agent.

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I’ll have to ask one someday. If this is true, I’d be curious to know why (neurologically) this is the case. I can’t find any articles on the topic.

What is it about the Bible that gravitates you to attack it and not the others that you already admitted treat women worse?

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Because I was raised as a Catholic and therefore have a greater personal interest in Christianity than other religions.

#29 Isabella

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 07:41 PM

It is not quite so manifestly true that women are to be in submission to the men in church, it's a teaching for the church, why should a nonbeliever get incensed about it?

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I’m just looking to hear some opinions and perhaps the basis behind them. I’m not asking anyone to change their ways. I personally don’t like the teaching that women should be in submission, which is one of the (many) reasons I have chosen to leave the church. I respect your right to your own opinion though.

What [in the church] can the man do that a woman cannot? I am not here interested in the visible hierarchical church, that pattern of church structure is not the bible pattern, I mean episcopalian with a structure of higher and higher authority, we are bible, all are brothers and sisters on the same level.

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The hierarchy in the church is what I’m interested in, because it shows the distribution of power. And men are always at the top, therefore possessing the most power. Women are not allowed to even attempt to attain the higher positions.

I have no doubt Isabella will attempt the "well there are some women who are stronger than some men", or the "define strength" tactic, both of which are equivocations, and not answers to your direct question.

The argument from the beginning was an attempt to spin, and/or take out of context (historically, culturally and literally) the scriptures attacked.

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Wow! It looks like I don’t even have to post anymore, now that we have a mind-reader who so graciously tells everyone my opinions before I can share them myself. Unfortunately, you predicted wrong. I wouldn’t suggest opening a psychic business anytime soon.

Consider how women thought joy would come from being career oriented and running after success through the financial/labor markets. Most whether agnostic, Christian or otherwise will gladly admit that their desire is to tend to the needs of their family rather than fulfilling the financial needs of the household. I know exceptions can be found but we are talking about the norm.

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Really? That’s the norm where you live? I’m currently in university because I happen to be after the career oriented success you’re speaking of. The male to female ratio of students in my classes shows no indication of this “norm”. In fact, some of my classes have more females than males. My statistics class happens to be 60% female. My organic chemistry class is 52% female. I can guarantee that you don’t take university level stats or organic chemistry if your goal in life is to be a housewife. These are women who want to be doctors, researchers, engineers, ect.

#30 the totton linnet

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 04:13 AM

I’m just looking to hear some opinions and perhaps the basis behind them. I’m not asking anyone to change their ways. I personally don’t like the teaching that women should be in submission, which is one of the (many) reasons I have chosen to leave the church. I respect your right to your own opinion though.

The hierarchy in the church is what I’m interested in, because it shows the distribution of power. And men are always at the top, therefore possessing the most power. Women are not allowed to even attempt to attain the higher positions.

Wow! It looks like I don’t even have to post anymore, now that we have a mind-reader who so graciously tells everyone my opinions before I can share them myself. Unfortunately, you predicted wrong. I wouldn’t suggest opening a psychic business anytime soon.

Really? That’s the norm where you live? I’m currently in university because I happen to be after the career oriented success you’re speaking of. The male to female ratio of students in my classes shows no indication of this “norm”. In fact, some of my classes have more females than males. My statistics class happens to be 60% female. My organic chemistry class is 52% female. I can guarantee that you don’t take university level stats or organic chemistry if your goal in life is to be a housewife. These are women who want to be doctors, researchers, engineers, ect.

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Men are always at the top, well with men such as Peter and Paul and James and John, I am quite happy for this to be so. They are also the ones who take the knocks and upbraidings, I think women read scripture a little differently than men do. I se that while the great apostles were trembling in their boots, skulking behind locked doors for fear of the Jews, it was the brave women who had their sleeves rolled up and were busy, they didn't know how they were going to roll that stone away, or if the soldiers would do them harm but they were going to get to the Lord and minister. It was to these women that the first resurrection message was given to the church.
Isn't that how it is today? the men are in charge but it's us paddling their butts :) And they didn't believe the women but Jesus upbraided them for not doing so.
The men I fellowship are not great men but they are gentle and godly, I am happy to be in submission to them as they are to Christ, if they were not submitted to Christ, I don't know how I would do, I say that because I know how the Lord works, both how He likes to work and how He sometimes works but is displeased with us in doing so.

What do I mean? suppose Mary Magdalene had gotten all puffed up because she had seen the Lord and He had told her what to do and say [this is the essence of prophecy] I see a lot of this puffed upness in the American church [the British church is dead as dodo so it doesn't apply] men and women, they get a little bit of blessing a little bit of revelation and of they go taking on airs and titles, apostles by the truckload.

Well God honours it in-as-much as He did visit first with the Magdalene and He did give her a revelation and she was to tell Peter what he was to do and where he was to go. And God has great mercy upon our petty human vanity [I know because I am the one prone to all this] Mary could have taken great airs to herself, and could have gone and got that rascal Peter by the collar and belittled him before the church and all that, and God would have kept His promise but He would be grieved on behalf of Peter, after all when the time did come for the disciples to make a public show of course it was Peter who would have to stand before the jeering hostile crowd not Mary, it was Peter and John who would take the beatings from the council.

And Mary had the secret joy and yes pride of watching it, incidently she was also at the prayer meeting when the Holy Spirit came, and actually if you read that scripture it was the men who joined the women, not t'other way about, they recieved the Holy Ghost as did the men.

Phillip's daughters were there [probably] and they each recieved the gift of prophecy, that would have meant that they had places of influence in the early days. There is joy in submission, joy at watching the brothers take a stand for the Lord, once again we are in days when it takes courage to go against the flow, we are the ones who are different, we are the true non conformists, not the atheists. But we are building for a better kingdom than this one.
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With the hierachical church? that is not bible church, I call no man on earth father or holy father, I am in no submission to prelates or bishops [of an earthly kind, all dressed in gorgeous apparel and greeted Reverence etc] I do not recognises that church as the church that Jesus established, so they can go and ordain who they like to do what they like, they have nothing to do with me.

#31 Adam Nagy

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 04:38 AM

Really? That’s the norm where you live? I’m currently in university because I happen to be after the career oriented success you’re speaking of. The male to female ratio of students in my classes shows no indication of this “norm”. In fact, some of my classes have more females than males. My statistics class happens to be 60% female. My organic chemistry class is 52% female. I can guarantee that you don’t take university level stats or organic chemistry if your goal in life is to be a housewife. These are women who want to be doctors, researchers, engineers, ect.

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How old are you and what are the average ages of your classmates?

#32 Voter

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 06:41 AM

This is a question I’ve posed to creationists a few times before, but I never seem to get a clear answer. You take the Bible to be God’s literal word, so what is your opinion on gender equality? Women are consistently portrayed as being inferior to men (both physically and intellectually),

Most people would agree that women are inferior physically.

Can you cite some of the passages that portray women as being inferior intellectually?

and even described as “evil” and “unclean” in some passages.

So are men.

I realize that many of these views are no longer held. For example, I Corinthians 14: 34-35 prohibits women from speaking in Church and says that they must ask their husbands any questions they might have upon returning home. But yet even in today’s society, women cannot hold positions of power (ministers, priests, the Pope, ect.) in the church. 

So if you are a male who believes the Bible is the truth, than how do you feel about this? Do you consider yourself superior to women?

No.

Or do you think males and females are equal in terms of power and intelligence?

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Power, no. Intelligence, yes.

#33 Arch

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 05:22 PM

Most people would agree that women are inferior physically.

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"Most people" need to do some physical education study then. Men are more powerful, woman are more flexible. It will all balance out in the end. So no, I don't agree that woman are physically inferior.

Regards,

Arch.

#34 Isabella

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 05:32 PM

How old are you and what are the average ages of your classmates?

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Why is that relevant? My university has more females than males, for both undergraduate AND postgraduate studies.

Here’s a page with gender statistics for grad students at my university: http://www.grad.ubc....mograph_Sex.htm

I don’t see any indication of women wanting to stay at home and cook and clean for the rest of their lives, do you? You don’t pursue graduate studies on a whim, just because you’re temporarily bored and need something to do before you get married and being a housewife becomes your full time job. It costs a lot of money to attend this school, and UBC happens to be one of the best universities in the world. It was ranked it 35 out of 400 overall, and 14 out of 100 for the best life sciences program according to US News: http://www.usnews.co...iversities.html

It’s not like I’m talking about some unknown community college when I show you these statistics.

#35 Adam Nagy

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 05:48 PM

Why is that relevant? My university has more females than males, for both undergraduate AND postgraduate studies.

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I think it is relevant because the feminist teachings that students are subjected to in high school prime girls to covet a career as if they were geared like men. Then after a certain amount of adulthood the biological clock starts ticking. :rolleyes:

I don't know if there are any gallop polls for this because I'm not real big on statistics but I've spoken with enough women to confirm that many abandon their career orientation and have a 'job mentality' wishing that they could escape the financial clutches associated with a two income household. My wife is a case in point. The world would look at her as a career oriented women. She's very successful at what she does for a living but she feels like a slave most days.

#36 ikester7579

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 07:28 PM

I'm going to start a thread on how s*xist evoluton is.

#37 Isabella

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 08:03 PM

I think it is relevant because the feminist teachings that students are subjected to in high school prime girls to covet a career as if they were geared like men.

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The statistics I gave you were for graduate students. We’re talking mid twenties to early thirties (depending on the degree), not fresh out of high school. And you talk about attaining a career as if it’s purely based on financial ambition. This is one factor, obviously. But the desire to make a decent living isn’t limited to men. I want to live in a nice house, drive a nice car, and wear nice clothes just as much as any man does. It doesn’t mean I’m “geared” like a man, it just means I have a certain lifestyle that I would like to achieve.

But there are so many other reasons people seek certain careers aside from financial goals, and you seem to be overlooking this entirely. For me, it’s also about personal satisfaction. In high school, I received awards for highest academic standing in calculus and highest academic standing in biology. Do you think I would have been content, at 18, to say, “Ok, well I’m done with the intellectual years. Might as well get married and start popping out the babies.” Of course not. I had talent and I intended to use it. I get a lot more satisfaction from solving a particularly hard differential equation than I ever would from mopping a kitchen floor or making a sandwich for my husband when he gets home from work. I wouldn’t be content to be unemployed, I need to be out there using my skills.

Then after a certain amount of adulthood the biological clock starts ticking.

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I’ve already decided that I want kids one day. And when I do have children, I will undoubtedly take the necessary time off work (years, if necessary). This doesn’t change the fact that I want a respectable career, and I want to make a contribution to society through my education in science.

I don't know if there are any gallop polls for this because I'm not real big on statistics but I've spoken with enough women to confirm that many abandon their career orientation and have a 'job mentality' wishing that they could escape the financial clutches associated with a two income household. My wife is a case in point. The world would look at her as a career oriented women. She's very successful at what she does for a living but she feels like a slave most days.

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Then perhaps she’s not doing what she truly loves? A career should never make you feel like a slave, but I hardly think the alternative is unemployment. I know many women who are very content with their careers, everything from successful lawyers and accountants to interior designers and pastry chefs.

I'm going to start a thread on how s*xist evoluton is.

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Yeah? In what way? Evolution relies on the whole “survival of the fittest” idea, where the best adapted organisms survive. Not only is the male to female ratio in the human population approximately equal, but females actually survive longer. Plus we have the same intellectual capacity, a clear sign that we have evolved to be equals.

#38 ikester7579

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 01:18 AM

Yeah? In what way? Evolution relies on the whole “survival of the fittest” idea, where the best adapted organisms survive. Not only is the male to female ratio in the human population approximately equal, but females actually survive longer. Plus we have the same intellectual capacity, a clear sign that we have evolved to be equals.


You see, the more you post, the truth about why you started this thread comes out. You were not interested in any of our answers, you only wanted to "argue" the point. Then when I say I will go and make another thread attacking what you believe in the same way you have done here, to an opposing view. You take offense.

If you cannot take what you dish, without taking offense, and start threads only to argue. And reject everyone who tried to answer you in your own thread.... Then don't bother posting here. You are wasting everyones time. You may disagree with our view, and we have no poblem with that. But when you waste everyones time starting threads you really have no interest in anyones answer. It becomes pointless.

And I'm closing this thread because of how pointless it has become.




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