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A Universe From Nothing


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#21 Ron

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 07:20 PM

AIP's link still isn't working... You may want to give them a call and see what's up <_<


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#22 A.Sphere

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 09:08 PM

Its speculation, and therefore not science, but it is pretty “fantastic”. And yes, it’s just another belief system.

P.S. nice link  <_<
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The link is to an article on Physical Review Letter D. It seems to be working now but it does warn:

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#23 Guest_martemius_*

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 10:19 PM

Its speculation, and therefore not science, but it is pretty “fantastic”. And yes, it’s just another belief system.

P.S. nice link  <_<
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So can you just not answer his question at all?

#24 Ron

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 03:09 AM

So can you just not answer his question at all?

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Did you not look at Post# 16? As I said before, just because you don't like the answer, doesn't make it a non answer.

#25 Guest_martemius_*

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 04:21 AM

Did you not look at Post# 16? As I said before, just because you don't like the answer, doesn't make it a non answer.

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Do I really need to copy and paste this again?: "Could you please link me a cosmology paper that was rejected from the journals that I may read - one that promotes your ideas about cosmology, or ideas that jive with your creationist beliefs?"

#26 Ron

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 05:18 AM

Do I really need to copy and paste this again?: "Could you please link me a cosmology paper that was rejected from the journals that I may read - one that promotes your ideas about cosmology, or ideas that jive with your creationist beliefs?"

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Ah, you don't like the answers, and now your going to nag and complain because you don't like them? Try post# 16...

#27 A.Sphere

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 11:06 AM

Ah, you don't like the answers, and now your going to nag and complain because you don't like them?

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Ron - have you linked a paper? If not, then the answer is no. You cannot link a paper. I will take either of the following:

1. A creationist cosmology paper that has been rejected by the journals.
2. A mainstream cosmology paper that preaches "Evolution Theology".

I would like to get both. You have not linked either of these two and yet you keep implying that you have answered these questions - but you haven't.

#28 Guest_martemius_*

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 11:33 AM

Ah, you don't like the answers, and now your going to nag and complain because you don't like them?

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Link me to the post where you answered that question.

#29 AFJ

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 01:42 PM

I posted this video in the Replying to The Speed Of Light thread of the Young Earth vs Old Earth forum to try and give everyone an insight into cosmology and why cosmologists are pursuing the theories that they are.  Rather than derail that thread with a discussion of the video, I thought it might be nice if we could discuss it here.

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Thoughts on the part I watched--it's long.

It seems to me that if there was a big bang 14 billion years ago that there should be a 14 billion year "hollow" from point central with the galaxies on the boundary of a sphere. Otherwise the singularity continued to loose matter for billions of years so that we would see the fill of the universe.

If the singularity ran out of matter, the universe would then be expanding on a curved plane, with a large hollow, like a balloon. However the galaxies are in a soap sud formation. They have small hollows between them--not one large one.

It seems that Einstein used "math options" in his philosophical quest of the formation of the universe.

Because Hubble discovered that the universe is expanding does not infer a big bang. He discovered a secret. He can not give an all inclusive reason for this in the boundaries of a deduction.

ToE-ers believe space is curved which something you can not see.

#30 jason78

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 03:54 PM

Thoughts on the part  I watched--it's long.

It seems to me that if there was a big bang 14 billion years ago that there should be a 14 billion year "hollow" from point central with the  galaxies on the boundary of a sphere.  Otherwise the singularity continued to loose matter for billions of years so that we would see the fill of the universe. 

If the singularity ran out of matter, the universe would then be expanding on a curved plane, with a large hollow, like a balloon.  However the galaxies are in a soap sud formation.  They have small hollows between them--not one large one.

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It is a bit long, but there's a lot of useful information in there. The big bang wasn't an explosion of matter in the convention sense, but something like an expanding homogeneous hot soup of energy. Minor fluctuations eventually gave rise to the voids and filaments we see in the large scale structure of the universe today. (As is my understanding of the theory anyway)

It seems that Einstein used "math options" in his philosophical quest of the formation of the universe.

Because Hubble discovered that the universe is expanding does not infer a big bang.  He discovered a secret.  He can not give an all inclusive reason for this in the boundaries of a deduction.

ToE-ers believe space is curved which something you can not see.

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Actually, you can see curved space. High gravitation fields bend light, much like a lens. This prediction of relativity was confirmed in 1919 during a solar eclipse and can be seen in many astronomical observations today.

#31 AFJ

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 06:00 PM

Actually, you can see curved space.  High gravitation fields bend light, much like a lens.   This prediction of relativity was confirmed in 1919 during a solar eclipse and can be seen in many astronomical observations today.

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Heat and telescope lenses bend light too. That has nothing to do with space or time. I have always tried to understand the ball in the middle of a sheet illustration for gravity. They are using the force of gravity on a sheet to express the force of gravity. A 2D sheet is not space. Maybe gravity is the combined power of strong nuclear force in the atoms of a massive object. Has that ever been theorized?

#32 AFJ

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 06:34 PM

Here's a primer:

Space is not filled with "nothing".  It is in fact a "foamy see" of particles winking in and out of existence.  We've measured the energy of these particles.  We even know about "vacuum energy".  Go ahead, read up on that one.

Yes, this is difficult science and if you don't want to believe it, fine.  But you can't deny that fact that science found these things.  So what did the universe come from?  We don't have all the answers but the video is a good start.

Yes, I know AIG makes and EFT loves to show videos too.  Here's the catch, this video is not just someone's wistful thinking.  There are a lot of peer-reviewed, critiqued and vigorously looked into papers that help us understand what's around us.

Yes, the "god of the gaps" is getting smaller all the time.

Here's a place to begin your search:  http://adsabs.harvar...ls_service.html

Now get something like that from Lisle.

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I read a little on "vacuum energy." It seems to me that many things in science have been expanded and mixed with the philosophical views of man. I don't know alot about physics, but I have studied chemistry. I know the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle which basically says you can't know the exact position of an electron at a given time. Physicists use this as a basis of these virtual particles in vacuum energy. All are in complicated mathematical equations on a chalkboard and I doubt very much in space. You guys believe in things that "pop in and out of existence," and laugh at things like angels. At least what we can't see exists always and forever.

They are still looking for the boson FrankH.particle accelerators

The god of the gaps is an imaginary god made up in the mind of unregenerate men. The living God reveals himself to the humble.

#33 Ron

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 10:35 AM

Ron - have you linked a paper?  If not, then the answer is no. 

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Post #16 anyone??? If oyu don't like the answers, simply say so!

Link me to the post where you answered that question.

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I'll tell you what, I'll let both you and Sphere do your own leg work, as I have already answered you questions. So, it seems you just don't like the answers.

Actually, you can see curved space.  High gravitation fields bend light, much like a lens.  

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Actually that is curved light... Is it not?

#34 A.Sphere

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 02:54 PM

Actually that is curved light... Is it not?

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No the space light travels through is curved. And the amount it curves is in precise agreement with General Relativity.

#35 Ron

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 03:32 PM

No the space light travels through is curved.  And the amount it curves is in precise agreement with General Relativity.

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And you've seen this "curved space" or you've seen light bent, and assume its telling you that the space is curved? Keeping in mind that there are many assumptions built into "General Relativity". :P

#36 CTD

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 10:52 PM

Actually that is curved light... Is it not?

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Oh Ron! :P

How can anyone ever have any fun if you keep paying attention like that?

Now close your eyes and moo like the rest of the herd, okay?

#37 Ron

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 03:16 AM

Oh Ron!  :P 

How can anyone ever have any fun if you keep paying attention like that?

Now close your eyes and moo like the rest of the herd, okay?

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:lol:

#38 Guest_martemius_*

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 03:30 AM

Link me to the post where you answered that question.

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The question stands.

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 03:43 AM

Keeping in mind that there are many assumptions built  into "General Relativity". :P

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The least of which is that it describes macroscopic gravitational systems far better than anything a creationist puts forth.

Wait, that isn't an assumption.

#40 Ron

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 03:52 AM

The least of which is that it describes macroscopic gravitational systems far better than anything a creationist puts forth. 
Wait, that isn't an assumption.

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Yes…. Assumptions

Can you show me curved space, or just bent light that you are assuming is space curving.




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