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#21 Cassiterides

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 10:22 AM

There are an estimated 9 billion trillion stars in the universe (source:wiki). How would you fit all of them just a few thousand miles away from earth?

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We don't know the exact size of stars. We can only guess their diameter. There is a theory that the diameter of the sun is only 32 miles. Though others think millions or hundreds of thousands. All of this is guesses and assumption. Unless someone lands or gets close to the Sun, we won't know.

#22 Cassiterides

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 10:24 AM

Our star (the sun) is farther than a few thousand miles away from us.  Unless you consider 93,000 thousand miles just a few. :lol:

Distance from Earth to sun = 1 AU ~ 93 Million miles

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Distance of sun from earth:

Copernicus 3, 391, 200 miles
Kepler 12, 376, 800 miles
Ric-ciola 27, 360,000 miles
Newton 28,000,000 miles
Martin 82,000,000 miles
Dilworth 93, 726, 900 miles
Mayer 104, 000, 000 miles

The sun is from 3 million to 104 million miles away to these authorities. Not very precise or accurate...in fact it's rather a shambles. Current mainstream astronomers choose the figure 90-93 million, though it changes roughly every few years.

Anyone's guess is as good as anyone elses.

#23 menes777

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 12:40 PM

Distance of sun from earth:

Copernicus 3, 391, 200 miles
Kepler 12, 376, 800 miles
Ric-ciola 27, 360,000 miles
Newton 28,000,000 miles
Martin 82,000,000 miles
Dilworth 93, 726, 900 miles
Mayer 104, 000, 000 miles

The sun is from 3 million to 104 million miles away to these authorities. Not very precise or accurate...in fact it's rather a shambles. Current mainstream astronomers choose the figure 90-93 million, though it changes roughly every few years.

Anyone's guess is as good as anyone elses.

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You do realize that technology has changed a bit since Copernicus' time? What you might not realize because your projections are getting in the way is that scientists aren't just guessing at the distance between the earth and the sun. They have measured it both mathematically and empirically.

http://curious.astro....php?number=400

#24 Cassiterides

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 01:07 PM

You do realize that technology has changed a bit since Copernicus' time?  What you might not realize because your projections are getting in the way is that scientists aren't just guessing at the distance between the earth and the sun.  They have measured it both mathematically and empirically. 

http://curious.astro....php?number=400

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Obviously false.

Are you saying someone has walked or traveled to the sun from earth?

The truth is that astronomers can only offer us estimates.

An estimate is a guess.

#25 nortonthe2nd

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 02:26 PM

Obviously false.

Are you saying someone has walked or traveled to the sun from earth?

The truth is that astronomers can only offer us estimates.

An estimate is a guess.

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Did you learn trig in high school?

Sun
|\
| \
|  \
|    \
|B    \A
|       \
|         \
|           \
|             \
|________\
Earth C Moon


We know the angles BC and CA, and we know side C. It's not a very hard problem. There are plenty of other ways of measuring the distance, too. There's a satellite, SOHO, that orbits directly between the sun and the Earth. We know that distance. Measure the difference between the size of the sun from SOHO and the size of the sun from Earth. We have the orbits of the various planets mapped out very precisely. They all orbit around the same point. Seriously, it's not that hard.

#26 scott

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 03:07 PM

Did you learn trig in high school?

Sun
|\
| \
|  \
|    \
|B    \A
|       \
|         \
|           \
|             \
|________\
Earth C  Moon
We know the angles BC and CA, and we know side C. It's not a very hard problem. There are plenty of other ways of measuring the distance, too. There's a satellite, SOHO, that orbits directly between the sun and the Earth. We know that distance. Measure the difference between the size of the sun from SOHO and the size of the sun from Earth. We have the orbits of the various planets mapped out very precisely. They all orbit around the same point. Seriously, it's not that hard.

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As I've explained in other threads. The Pathagorean Theorem can't actually be used, because you need to have a point of reference outside our galaxy, but you don't have that.

That means you can't have a complete A, B, and C. If your missing the most critical reference point then you can't complete the formula. A known distance must be included within the equation, and you can't just make one up... which many people seem to do since we haven't actually made a trip outside the galaxy to plot a reference point so that we can complete the formula.

So, Cassiterides would be correct, because if you use an estimate ( because you and I both know absolutely no one has made the trip to make a reference point) then you will always get an estimate.

Now, why would these only be estimates??? Because distances further than the moon cannot be used as reference points. Even the distance to the Sun would be a guess without a reference point from the moon. We know the exact distance to the moon, and surrounding planets in our own Galaxy, but outside of that it would definately be a guess.

#27 nortonthe2nd

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 05:44 PM

As I've explained in other threads.  The Pathagorean Theorem can't actually be used, because you need to have a point of reference outside our galaxy, but you don't have that.

That means you can't have a complete A, B, and C.  If your missing the most critical reference point then you can't complete the formula.  A known distance must be included within the equation, and you can't just make one up... which many people seem to do since we haven't actually made a trip outside the galaxy to plot a reference point so that we can complete the formula.

So, Cassiterides would be correct, because if you use an estimate ( because you and I both know absolutely no one has made the trip to make a reference point) then you will always get an estimate.

Now, why would these only be estimates??? Because distances further than the moon cannot be used as reference points.  Even the distance to the Sun would be a guess without a reference point from the moon.  We know the exact distance to the moon, and surrounding planets in our own Galaxy, but outside of that it would definately be a guess.

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...
what?

Did you even read my post at all? Try again more carefully.

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 06:07 PM

As I've explained in other threads.  The Pathagorean Theorem can't actually be used, because you need to have a point of reference outside our galaxy, but you don't have that.

That means you can't have a complete A, B, and C.  If your missing the most critical reference point then you can't complete the formula.  A known distance must be included within the equation, and you can't just make one up... which many people seem to do since we haven't actually made a trip outside the galaxy to plot a reference point so that we can complete the formula.

So, Cassiterides would be correct, because if you use an estimate ( because you and I both know absolutely no one has made the trip to make a reference point) then you will always get an estimate.

Now, why would these only be estimates??? Because distances further than the moon cannot be used as reference points.  Even the distance to the Sun would be a guess without a reference point from the moon.  We know the exact distance to the moon, and surrounding planets in our own Galaxy, but outside of that it would definately be a guess.

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The trig agrees with every other independent method though.

You brought this up last time we discussed this, I'm not sure what you mean by reference point??? You can solve every part of a triangle if you have 2 angles and one side.

#29 scott

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 06:35 PM

The trig agrees with every other independent method though. 

You brought this up last time we discussed this, I'm not sure what you mean by reference point???  You can solve every part of a triangle if you have 2 angles and one side.

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You have A, B, and C. Actually you don't know the distance to said star B, which your making the reference point for your mileage.

You don't have a complete triangle, therefore it's an estimate, because you don't know the true distance of said star, to get the distance of the other star.

#30 scott

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 06:36 PM

...
what?

Did you even read my post at all? Try again more carefully.

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You don't have a complete Triangle. Did you even read my post at all? Try again more carefully please.

#31 Guest_Tommy_*

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 07:26 PM

As I've explained in other threads.  The Pathagorean Theorem can't actually be used, because you need to have a point of reference outside our galaxy, but you don't have that.

That means you can't have a complete A, B, and C.  If your missing the most critical reference point then you can't complete the formula.  A known distance must be included within the equation, and you can't just make one up... which many people seem to do since we haven't actually made a trip outside the galaxy to plot a reference point so that we can complete the formula.

So, Cassiterides would be correct, because if you use an estimate ( because you and I both know absolutely no one has made the trip to make a reference point) then you will always get an estimate.

Now, why would these only be estimates??? Because distances further than the moon cannot be used as reference points.  Even the distance to the Sun would be a guess without a reference point from the moon.  We know the exact distance to the moon, and surrounding planets in our own Galaxy, but outside of that it would definately be a guess.

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"Pathagorean "? "you need to have a point of reference outside our galaxy"?

You just use simple trig. If you don't consider a distance accurate unless someone has made the trip then you're rejecting the professions of surveying and mapmaking.

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 07:37 PM

You have A, B, and C.  Actually you don't know the distance to said star B, which your making the reference point for your mileage.

You don't have a complete triangle, therefore it's an estimate, because you don't know the true distance of said star, to get the distance of the other star.

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You don't have A, B, and C. You have C plus two angles and you complete the triangle using them.

#33 nortonthe2nd

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 08:48 PM

You don't have a complete Triangle. Did you even read my post at all?  Try again more carefully please.

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You have the Earth, Moon, and Sun. That sure looks like a complete triangle to me. Where did all that stuff about other galaxies come from? I was responding to Cassiterides, who was saying we dont know the distance to the sun for sure.

#34 falcone

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 02:50 AM

Scott, Cassiterides

Here is a list of probes that have been sent around the Solar System. Some successes and some failures, but I'll bet my mortgage that they didn't fail because we don't know how far away the targets are.

Ulysses mission was to study the Sun at all latitudes. To do this required a major orbital plane shift. Due to velocity change limitations of the Shuttle and the IUS, this was accomplished by using an encounter with Jupiter to effect the plane change instead of an engine burn. Source

What about the Voyager probes to Jupiter and the recent Cassini probe to Saturn? Could you explain how the success of any of these support your ideas that we can only guess how far away solar objects are, or how big they are?

#35 Cassiterides

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:37 AM

I was responding to Cassiterides, who was saying we dont know the distance to the sun for sure.

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Ok so you think you know the exact distance to the sun.

Do you not find it odd though that the distance is stated to be 93,000,000 miles?

Wow, what a precise figure...

Incase you don't understand the above is an estimate.

An estimate is a guess...

and guesses are not facts are they :lol:

#36 Cassiterides

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:45 AM

Scott, Cassiterides

Here is a list of probes that have been sent around the Solar System. Some successes and some failures, but I'll bet my mortgage that they didn't fail because we don't know how far away the targets are.

Ulysses mission was to study the Sun at all latitudes. To do this required a major orbital plane shift. Due to velocity change limitations of the Shuttle and the IUS, this was accomplished by using an encounter with Jupiter to effect the plane change instead of an engine burn. Source

What about the Voyager probes to Jupiter and the recent Cassini probe to Saturn? Could you explain how the success of any of these support your ideas that we can only guess how far away solar objects are, or how big they are?

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Yes we can only guess. Unless you believe man has walked on the sun?

It kind of gets boring that i have to keep correcting you evolutionists on what is fact and what is a guess, theory, assumption etc.

#37 scott

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 10:40 AM

You don't have A, B, and C.  You have C plus two angles and you complete the triangle using them.

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I know, I know, I know.... Gee Wiz without A known distance which is either A or B, or C... whatever distance your trying to get.

Whatever side of the triangle your trying to get you need to use an exact distance to get the next distance.

You don't even have 2 complete sides of the trianlge. You absolutely must have a known distance like:

Earth to Moon: We have that distance.

A to B (AB), that's 1 side... you have the mileage for that side therefore you can get AC.

#38 scott

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 10:44 AM

"Pathagorean "?  "you need to have a point of reference outside our galaxy"?

You just use simple trig.  If you don't consider a distance accurate unless someone has made the trip then you're rejecting the professions of surveying and mapmaking.

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You misundestand what I'm saying. I know it's simple trig!!! Surveying and Mapmaking use known distances when they Survey, and make Maps. I know this from firsthand experience.

I also know from first hand experience that you absolutely must have a known distance AB, or BC, or whatever side must have a known distance to get the other side correctly.

#39 scott

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 10:51 AM

You have the Earth, Moon, and Sun. That sure looks like a complete triangle to me. Where did all that stuff about other galaxies come from? I was responding to Cassiterides, who was saying we dont know the distance to the sun for sure.

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My bad, that's not I was talking about. I was talking about trying to get distances outside the Galaxy. You can't use the known distance of the moon to get a very accurate answer that far out, you must use another distance as a reference point.

#40 menes777

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 12:03 PM

Ok so you think you know the exact distance to the sun.

Do you not find it odd though that the distance is stated to be 93,000,000 miles?

Wow, what a precise figure...

Incase you don't understand the above is an estimate.

An estimate is a guess...

and guesses are not facts are they :lol:

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Look at my post again very carefully, the ~ means about. So it's about 93 million miles, but not exactly. The more exact number is...

149,597,871 km
or
92,955,807 miles

Also to spell it out more clearly to avoid getting caught up in the minutiae again, the distance to our sun is much greater than a few thousand miles. In fact a few thousand miles is even closer than the moon is to us. Unless of course you want to make it seem like 252 is just a few (252,000 miles).




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