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For Whom Was God's Law Intended, Israel Only Or The World?


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#61 jason

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 10:25 AM

no sir , the threat of the law didnt work, just look at ancient isreal, warned and warned by God and what did they do? go into capitivity. does the law save? NO. it ooesnt and wasnt meant to.



i lived in that sin for three months, i, wow, so god doesnt know the future. he doesnt know when i sin tommorow and is caught by suprise?

yet you say that god will save a the nation of isreal.

how can he do that if he doesnt know what we do tommorow?

#62 Teejay

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 10:34 AM

[quote name='jason' timestamp='1313323473' post='74114']
no, sir its how you apply that, so the fact that its ok for fornication to be permissable and that isnt what God slays men for?
really?

so the ten commandements given to jews dont apply?

that verse i quoted to you states this.

she wasnt a virgin she died as not being a virgin.


again paul disagreed.

romans 1:

28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29Being filled with all unrighteousness, FORNICATION, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them


WELL THEN. we have a list, gossipers deserved death! fornicators. wickedness is general and includes anything that can be sinful that is so in principal.

paul would agree with my positon.

NO, I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ONLY YOU WANTING TO KILLS G*ys.


i know what a theocracy is. we had them, the purtians did what you said.

they killed witches. know any?

do you have a problem with God's law? he said they should die.


but i see your saying because God killed the sodomites that this is only the sin that we should push for the death penalty towards the gentiles.


but lets do a word study

jude

6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire


odd God judged them for fornication, and you say that we shouldnt ask for them to be put to death.i see a double standard. oh its ok to commit fornication but not h*m*s*xuality.

God isnt like us, he is just. you and i arent. that is why i am acting this way because i see it clearly, you judge ONLY THE G*ys. NOT all sinners listed romans 1. paul these that do these are all worthy of death. you say only the G*ys.


paul, wrote as inspired by God. you say opposite.

in jude that word fornicate is ekporneo meaning to give onself to fornication and to be unchaste.

and then theres this

in greek that word strange flesh is this.

probably from the base of sarow - saroo 4563; flesh (as stripped of the skin), i.e. (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extension) the body (as opposed to the soul (or spirit), or as the symbol of what is external, or as the means of kindred), or (by implication) human nature (with its frailties (physically or morally) and passions), or (specially), a human being (as such):--carnal(-ly, + -ly minded), flesh(-ly).


so what you are saying may not be the only reason sodoma and gommorah are judged.no sir you judge unfairly and only agiasnt one group. if we are to do as you say and then it has to be fair and equally applied to all sins listed that are worthy of death in the ot and nt.


not just G*ys.

i could and i should show evidence that the death penalty hasnt worked. i looked the the stats. it was interesting.

Jason, when your posts get this long, I time out on my computer before I can respond. Can you narrow it down some.

I will address one of your concerns though: Should we put fornicators to death. Not according to God.

"If a man finds a young woman who is a virgin, who is not bethrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her, and they are found out, then the man who lay with her shall give to the young woman's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days" (Deut. 22:28-29).

At first blush, this appears to be a rape. But then we read, "and THEY are found out." So she is not exactly innocent in this encounter. This is where our modern day "shotgun wedding" originates. And if she turns out to be a shrew like Moses' Midionite wife Zipporah, I question whether God's punishment here fits the crime. I deem it cruel and unusual punishment, for he can't divorce her all the days of his life. But God knows best.

TeeJay

#63 Teejay

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 10:40 AM

no, sir its how you apply that, so the fact that its ok for fornication to be permissable and that isnt what God slays men for?
really?

so the ten commandements given to jews dont apply?

that verse i quoted to you states this.

she wasnt a virgin she died as not being a virgin.


again paul disagreed.

romans 1:

28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29Being filled with all unrighteousness, FORNICATION, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them


WELL THEN. we have a list, gossipers deserved death! fornicators. wickedness is general and includes anything that can be sinful that is so in principal.

paul would agree with my positon.

NO, I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ONLY YOU WANTING TO KILLS G*ys.


i know what a theocracy is. we had them, the purtians did what you said.

they killed witches. know any?

do you have a problem with God's law? he said they should die.


but i see your saying because God killed the sodomites that this is only the sin that we should push for the death penalty towards the gentiles.


but lets do a word study

jude

6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire


odd God judged them for fornication, and you say that we shouldnt ask for them to be put to death.i see a double standard. oh its ok to commit fornication but not h*m*s*xuality.

God isnt like us, he is just. you and i arent. that is why i am acting this way because i see it clearly, you judge ONLY THE G*ys. NOT all sinners listed romans 1. paul these that do these are all worthy of death. you say only the G*ys.


paul, wrote as inspired by God. you say opposite.

in jude that word fornicate is ekporneo meaning to give onself to fornication and to be unchaste.

and then theres this

in greek that word strange flesh is this.

probably from the base of sarow - saroo 4563; flesh (as stripped of the skin), i.e. (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extension) the body (as opposed to the soul (or spirit), or as the symbol of what is external, or as the means of kindred), or (by implication) human nature (with its frailties (physically or morally) and passions), or (specially), a human being (as such):--carnal(-ly, + -ly minded), flesh(-ly).


so what you are saying may not be the only reason sodoma and gommorah are judged.no sir you judge unfairly and only agiasnt one group. if we are to do as you say and then it has to be fair and equally applied to all sins listed that are worthy of death in the ot and nt.


not just G*ys.

i could and i should show evidence that the death penalty hasnt worked. i looked the the stats. it was interesting.


Ops! Posted this twice. Sorry

Jason, when your posts get this long, I time out on my computer before I can respond. Can you narrow it down some. I live in the country and I don't have good service.

I will address one of your concerns though: Should we put fornicators to death. Not according to God.

"If a man finds a young woman who is a virgin, who is not bethrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her, and they are found out, then the man who lay with her shall give to the young woman's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days" (Deut. 22:28-29).

At first blush, this appears to be a rape. But then we read, "and THEY are found out." So she is not exactly innocent in this encounter. This is where our modern day "shotgun wedding" originates. And if she turns out to be a shrew like Moses' Midionite wife Zipporah, I question whether God's punishment here fits the crime. I deem it cruel and unusual punishment, for he can't divorce her all the days of his life. But God knows best.

Now we can go on forever with the intricate details of what God's law says, but I want to stay on topic. I posted the death penalty crimes for which God demands the death penalty. Do they apply to us today. And if not, what do you replace them with?

TeeJay

#64 jason

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 10:54 AM

jude states God judged sodoma and gommorah for their sins of fornication and also use of the strange flesh setting them up as example in eternal judgment.so therefore if GOD felt that serious fornication and other sins we should too, but you dont, damn the G*ys to hell with one chance to repent but not the fornicators who have tons of illegatemate kids and other things.

so no forgiveness for men like me to turn around, eh, i repent i still die. yet with the fornicators is oh well yup you sinned repent and dont do again.

you reak of hate.

#65 jason

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 11:00 AM

what you dont know is that men like me do repent and often need help..

so to whom we get our help from? how is it that while i was bi and acted more on the female side, no longer do i want men?on another forum a recent saved H*mos*xual who to this day has never known a woman has talked about how God is healing him and putting the desires of women in him. i told him the word alone not any man could do that. read the bible and it will happen the hs will heal thee, but its not going to be overnight and it may take years

being a bi/H*mos*xual is big thing. it takes time as God must remake the sinner. salvation as far justification is instant but not santification. so how prey tell would i be able to tell others of this goodness in an all male jail or dead?

surely, you do see the problem.

#66 ikester7579

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 12:42 PM

We have had some complaints about this thread. So for now I'm closing it to read through it to figure out what to do. This thread may stay closed as long as 48 hours.

#67 Fred Williams

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 06:49 AM

We discussed this among the Mods, and are re-opening the thread. This is not a "hate-speech" thread, IMO its a thread that shows a ton of love. I'll expound on this in a follow-up post.

Fred

#68 Fred Williams

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 07:16 AM

what you dont know is that men like me do repent and often need help..

so to whom we get our help from? how is it that while i was bi and acted more on the female side, no longer do i want men?on another forum a recent saved H*mos*xual who to this day has never known a woman has talked about how God is healing him and putting the desires of women in him. i told him the word alone not any man could do that. read the bible and it will happen the hs will heal thee, but its not going to be overnight and it may take years

being a bi/H*mos*xual is big thing. it takes time as God must remake the sinner. salvation as far justification is instant but not santification. so how prey tell would i be able to tell others of this goodness in an all male jail or dead?

surely, you do see the problem.


Hi Jason,

I suspect TeeJay knows that many homosexuals have repented and become Christians. I would like to offer something for you to consider. There is data that shows that homosexuals have much higher murder and suicide rates, much higher rate of sexual diseases, and a much lower life expectancy than the normal population. One study has the homosexual male life expectancy as low as 39 years old (same study had lesbians around 56 years old). But instead of turning this into a debate on these statistics, I hope you can at least agree that homosexuals have a lower life expectancy. The high suicide rate should be an indicator that the lifestyle is very depressing (being oppressed is not a valid argument, since history has shown that opression is not linked to increased suicide rate).

I beleive God is showing incredible love by decreeing homosexuality as a capital offense. How? When captial punishment is instituted properly, it does serve as a very, very good deterrent. Just think of the many nations that currently have capital punishment laws against homosexuality. Those countries have a very low number of obituaries of homosexual men. Countless lives have been saved. This doesn't count the number of crimes against the general population such as higher rate of molestation among homosexuals. I would fully support capital punishment for homosexuality, because it would save my loved ones from venturing into this lifestyle. I love my family and friends enough to know that such a law would SAVE the life of any of them contemplating that lifestyle. The liberal, on the other hand, would rather just tolerate them right to their grave. How is this any different from not warning a drug addict that his lifestyle will kill him?

I'm going to take this a step further and will have to disagree with TeeJay on one point. I beleive the capital law against cursing your parents should also be in place! I do not believe this law was referering to an angry moment where a cuss word flies from the mouth. I beleive its an active defiance of parents. Now think about this. Think of all those you know who essentially "curse" their parents in active rebellion. I know very few cases, but the ones I know, the person became a criminal. Such individuals that curse their own parents are far more likely, virtually certain, to be scourges on society. Good riddance to them, or better yet, deter them from such evil. But don't trust me, trust the words of Jesus. He singled out this very form of capital punishment agisnt those who though they knew better:
"He answered and said to them, "Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, c'Honor your father and your mother'; and, d'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.' 5 But you say, ... " Matt 15:3-4

You say what? :) Is your opinion counter to what Jesus said above? I'll stick with God's Word instead of my flesh-borne opinion on the matter. IMO when we think through this, his infinite wisdom and love comes through, and lives are not only saved, there is less violence, depression, and suffering.

Fred


#69 Calypsis4

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 07:40 AM

Hi Jason,

I suspect TeeJay knows that many h*m*sexuals have repented and become Christians. I would like to offer something for you to consider. There is data that shows that h*m*sexuals have much higher murder and suicide rates, much higher rate of S@xual diseases, and a much lower life expectancy than the normal population. One study has the H*mos*xual male life expectancy as low as 39 years old (same study had lesbians around 56 years old). But instead of turning this into a debate on these statistics, I hope you can at least agree that h*m*sexuals have a lower life expectancy. The high suicide rate should be an indicator that the lifestyle is very depressing (being oppressed is not a valid argument, since history has shown that opression is not linked to increased suicide rate).

I beleive God is showing incredible love by decreeing h*m*s*xuality as a capital offense. How? When captial punishment is instituted properly, it does serve as a very, very good deterrent. Just think of the many nations that currently have capital punishment laws against h*m*s*xuality. Those countries have a very low number of obituaries of H*mos*xual men. Countless lives have been saved. This doesn't count the number of crimes against the general population such as higher rate of molestation among h*m*sexuals. I would fully support capital punishment for h*m*s*xuality, because it would save my loved ones from venturing into this lifestyle. I love my family and friends enough to know that such a law would SAVE the life of any of them contemplating that lifestyle. The liberal, on the other hand, would rather just tolerate them right to their grave. How is this any different from not warning a drug addict that his lifestyle will kill him?

I'm going to take this a step further and will have to disagree with TeeJay on one point. I beleive the capital law against cursing your parents should also be in place! I do not believe this law was referering to an angry moment where a cuss word flies from the mouth. I beleive its an active defiance of parents. Now think about this. Think of all those you know who essentially "curse" their parents in active rebellion. I know very few cases, but the ones I know, the person became a criminal. Such individuals that curse their own parents are far more likely, virtually certain, to be scourges on society. Good riddance to them, or better yet, deter them from such evil. But don't trust me, trust the words of Jesus. He singled out this very form of capital punishment agisnt those who though they knew better:
"He answered and said to them, "Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, c'Honor your father and your mother'; and, d'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.' 5 But you say, ... " Matt 15:3-4

You say what? :) Is your opinion counter to what Jesus said above? I'll stick with God's Word instead of my flesh-borne opinion on the matter. IMO when we think through this, his infinite wisdom and love comes through, and lives are not only saved, there is less violence, depression, and suffering.

Fred


Thanks for that, Mr. Williams.

I would agree with such actions if this were 1820 during the age of the 2nd great awakening and the people in this country were so very influenced by the preaching of righteousness and preachers like Charles G. Finney. But alas, its too late for that. America has crossed the point of no return. I still encourage believers to speak out for right and vote on issues in line with the Bible but other than that there is really little more that can be done for the United State of America.

Come quickly, Lord Jesus!

#70 MamaElephant

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 07:57 AM

Have we forgotten that God is in control of all things? If he wanted Moses' law to apply to everyone then it would!

#71 MamaElephant

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 08:04 AM

Romans 2:1 You may think you can condemn such people, but you are just as bad, and you have no excuse! When you say they are wicked and should be punished, you are condemning yourself, for you who judge others do these very same things. 2 And we know that God, in his justice, will punish anyone who does such things. 3 Since you judge others for doing these things, why do you think you can avoid God’s judgment when you do the same things? 4 Don’t you see how wonderfully kind, tolerant, and patient God is with you? Does this mean nothing to you? Can’t you see that his kindness is intended to turn you from your sin?

#72 Fred Williams

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 08:33 AM

Thanks for that, Mr. Williams.

I would agree with such actions if this were 1820 during the age of the 2nd great awakening and the people in this country were so very influenced by the preaching of righteousness and preachers like Charles G. Finney. But alas, its too late for that. America has crossed the point of no return. I still encourage believers to speak out for right and vote on issues in line with the Bible but other than that there is really little more that can be done for the United State of America.

Come quickly, Lord Jesus!


That's somewhat a defeatist attitude that I tend to share. :) I too wonder if we are past the point of no return.

Just to be clear to everyone, I support a major overhaul of our criminal justice system. I don't support people going out and killing homosexuals, adulterers, malcontents, etc. I also support the 2nd amendment, sorry to digress, but saw this great video worth watching:



Fred

#73 Calypsis4

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 08:50 AM

That's somewhat a defeatist attitude that I tend to share. :) I too wonder if we are past the point of no return.

Just to be clear to everyone, I support a major overhaul of our criminal justice system. I don't support people going out and killing h*m*sexuals, adulterers, malcontents, etc. I also support the 2nd amendment, sorry to digress, but saw this great video worth watching:



Fred


I don't see a defeatest attitude at all. Did Jeremiah have a defeatest attitude about Israel just before the destruction by Bablyon? No, it was not defeatest, it was realist. But I know what you meant.

Personally, I am much more interested in the conversion of h*m*sexuals, adulterers, etc. than in their execution. I wish to have the attitude Jesus had towards the woman taken in adultery than what the pharisees wanted done to her. I would trust that at bottom line, that what Jesus did is what you and most of the readership of EFF desire.

Best wishes.

#74 Calypsis4

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 08:51 AM

I don't see a defeatest attitude at all. Did Jeremiah have a defeatest attitude about Israel just before the destruction by Bablyon? No, it was not defeatest, it was realist. He told the Jews that judgment was coming and there was no recourse. But I know what you meant.

Personally, I am much more interested in the conversion of h*m*sexuals, adulterers, etc. than in their execution. I wish to have the attitude Jesus had towards the woman taken in adultery than what the pharisees wanted done to her. I would trust that at bottom line, that what Jesus did is what you and most of the readership of EFF desire.

Best wishes.



#75 Fred Williams

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 08:58 AM

Have we forgotten that God is in control of all things? If he wanted Moses' law to apply to everyone then it would!


God by His own choice has relinquished some of his control because of free will. Here is one of many examples in scripture that refute the above statement:

'And they built the high places of Baal ... to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech, which I did not command them, nor did it come into My mind that they should do this abomination.' Jer 32:35

Fred

#76 Fred Williams

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 09:04 AM

Personally, I am much more interested in the conversion of h*m*sexuals, adulterers, etc. than in their execution.


As am I. It is clear you are missing an important point. Isn't the job easier if the person is alive to be witnessed to? Personally I'd rather witness to a living person, who is alive because of a deterrent that kept him from a behavior that would have killed him. I think God's wisdom on this is impeccable.

Fred
PS. I agree realist is a better description than defeatist.

#77 Fred Williams

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 09:15 AM

Romans 2:1 You may think you can condemn such people, but you are just as bad, and you have no excuse! When you say they are wicked and should be punished, you are condemning yourself, for you who judge others do these very same things. 2 And we know that God, in his justice, will punish anyone who does such things. 3 Since you judge others for doing these things, why do you think you can avoid God's judgment when you do the same things? 4 Don't you see how wonderfully kind, tolerant, and patient God is with you? Does this mean nothing to you? Can't you see that his kindness is intended to turn you from your sin?


Romans 2:1 is about the sin of judging hypocritically, it has nothing to do with whether or not God commanded the death penalty for various types of sin, including homosexuality. In my previous post, just substitute homosexual with serial killer. Do you also disagree with capital punishment for serial killers? Would you have posted Romans 2:1 as a rebuttal? Didn't Christ teach us to judge? See thread on Thou Shalt Not Judge. Even if you take what I wrote above as simply judging homosexuals, in what way am I judging them hypocritically? Are you not judging me now? Posted Image

I'm debating whether or not God was correct to institute capital punishment for homosexuality. I say God was not only correct (IMO a good side to take :)), I am also saying that His view on this has not changed, and/or he hasn't relegated this to OT Jews only.

I will reemphasize an important point. If we followed God's way, there would be far more people to witness to, its impossible to witness to someone who is in the grave.

Fred

#78 Teejay

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 10:10 AM

[quote] name='Calypsis4' timestamp='1313423415' post='74157']
I don't see a defeatest attitude at all. Did Jeremiah have a defeatest attitude about Israel just before the destruction by Bablyon? No, it was not defeatest, it was realist. But I know what you meant.

Personally, I am much more interested in the conversion of h*m*sexuals, adulterers, etc. than in their execution. I wish to have the attitude Jesus had towards the woman taken in adultery than what the pharisees wanted done to her. I would trust that at bottom line, that what Jesus did is what you and most of the readership of EFF desire.

Best wishes.
[/quote]

Cal,

I think we all have witnessing and salvation on the front burner. But I hear Christians say, "We must change their hearts first." But if a child molester is molesting a child, I want to grab some body parts and his heart will follow. Then when he's in a holding cell awaiting execution, you can work on changing his heart.

There are some States in America where the Personhood Movement (active Christians) are very close to getting a Personhood Amendment voted into law and one State in particular where the governor promises to sign it. This would outlaw the killing of babies in one State. Should they take you advice and just quit what they are doing?

TeeJay

#79 ikester7579

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 01:39 PM

As for a g*y being also Christian. Here are the reason the two won't go together:

1) Being Christian is a condition of the heart where Christ resides in your heart. So everything that a person does Christ is there also. Think about it. Is Christ going to be there during that act?
2) The lifestyle mocks how God created both man and woman to be.

Can a person like this turn to God? Of course, but in order to do so they also have to give up the sin. Christ is not going to reside in their heart if they continue to choose that sin that mocks God without remorse and effort to repent (abstain) in our efforts. God knows that we can fail due to temptation, but those who do not try are sinning on purpose and Christ is not in them.

Now for the reason that the violence that was in the Old Testament no longer applies. When a person died in the OT, he or she did not go directly to heaven or Hell. What was done was the soul stayed with the Body in the grave. This is confirmed 2 ways.

1) When a person died it was said that they slept with their fathers. So you can use a Bible search engine and search the OT for this term: slept fathers. There are many OT verses that support this.
2) When Christ rose from the grave, it says that many of the saints rose and went into the Holy City. Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,.... If the saints were already in heaven, who was rising from the graves? So you see they were still in the graves.
3) And because it says "many" of the saints arose, and not "all" of the saints arose. This resurrection was also a judgment. The ones not worthy did not rise. And because they "died in the Old Covenant", they are dead to the new covenant and are still in their graves even today. This is why even though Christ came to give life, there is a reference in the Bible to the dead in Christ: 1thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:.... The reason the new covenant cannot help them is because a person is held to the standards of the covenant in which they died in. So they are dead in Christ because they died in the OT covenant.

Christ changed all this by making judgment after death instead of before it. This was done by making a straight way to Heaven. The priests of the OT could not do this because they were mortal men. So Christ took their place by becoming the sin atonement for all mankind.

#80 Calypsis4

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 02:16 PM

Cal,

I think we all have witnessing and salvation on the front burner. But I hear Christians say, "We must change their hearts first." But if a child molester is molesting a child, I want to grab some body parts and his heart will follow. Then when he's in a holding cell awaiting execution, you can work on changing his heart.

There are some States in America where the Personhood Movement (active Christians) are very close to getting a Personhood Amendment voted into law and one State in particular where the governor promises to sign it. This would outlaw the killing of babies in one State. Should they take you advice and just quit what they are doing?

TeeJay


"Should they take you(sic) advice and just quit what they are doing?"

Why don't you even try to think about what others are telling you TeeJay? Quote me. Where did I ever say that we should stand aside and say or do nothing? I've repeatedly said in this discussion that Christians should speak, vote, and persuade others to not do evil things; that includes abortion, h*m*s*xuality, or any other dreadful sin listed in God's word. Don't you think that Jeremiah did what he could in that regard right down too the last day before Babylon destroyed Jerusalem? Of course he did. But unlike you, he was a realist. Since he COULD NOT persuade the government authorities to repent and not stop the flow of evil he yet continued to work on a private level to help those he could.

As far as what you said about stopping babies from being aborted, I am in favor of such a thing as you are.

Stop putting words in my mouth, please.

Best wishes.




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