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An Anti-young Earth Argument In The Bible?

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#21 Fred Williams

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Posted 26 August 2005 - 12:38 PM

As far as starlight goes,  Dr. Russ Humphrey's has developed a white hole cosmology that explains how the universe can be ~6k years old with the light appearing here from stars that are billions of light years away.

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I think it is also worth mentioning that the starlight problem is much worse for the evolutionist, IMO. It's called the "horizon" problem. We've discovered that the universe, no matter where we look, is the same temperature. There simply isn't enough time for light to travel to all parts of the universe for this equilibrium to occur. The inflation hypothesis that was created to explain this problem is completely inadequate (it is really a just-so story with no tangible evidence to support it). If you doubt this, then why do many secular astronomers and physicists cite this as one of the reasons the current big bang paradigm is a dead theory. See www.cosmologystatement.org.


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Posted 27 August 2005 - 03:55 AM

Light from stars:

Genesis 1:
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

Verse 14.
1) And God said: This is a word commandment creation.

2) Let there be lights: The reason the word star is not used, God wanted us to know that what He was putting out there, was producing it's own light, thus the word lights is used.

3) In the firmament of heaven: Where they were placed (space).

4) And let them be for signs, and seasons, and for days, and years: Here we see the questioned answered about why they were created. It was so we could tell time.
Days = light from our sun.
Seasons = A quarter orbit around the sun. It also shows the earth is already tilted on it's axis.
Years = Our complete orbit around the sun.

Verse 15:
1) And let them be for lights: Here it is being reconfirmed that the stars were producing light.

2) in the firmament of the heaven: Placement is being reconfirmed

*3) To give light upon the earth: Why they were put there.

**4) and it was so: This is an end of a word commandment. That everything before it was done by the word of God.

Notice where I put the two asterisks.
* This was the reason for their creation, as well as to tell time. This was to also show that the light of the star did not reach the earth naturally. Why would God create something we could not see? In the next part, it shows God commanded the light to shine upon the earth by the use of four words.

** And it was so: This is the end of this word commandment by God. "It was so" illustrates that everything mentioned before it, in this particular word creation, was not so. Which includes light shining upon the earth.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

So, in other words. Everything in between: "And God said" And "And it was so" Was not so until God made it so. So if you go back and read everything between the beginning of verse 14, when the commandment started. And verse 15, when the commandment ended. This shows all these things were not so. In fact, this was where the motion of the whole universe was set into play. For how else can you tell time by these things, unless they were now moving?

To give light upon the earth? Why even mention this, unless the light was not shining upon the earth. So the: "And it was so" commandment, made it so.

So God made the lights to shine upon the earth, and the light shined upon the earth because God made it so. Using God's word to do this, also means that the frequency of His voice, can alter the speed of light. Which also means this would be testable, if science could figure out what frequency, and, if we could even produce it (maybe out of our current technology, a band not yet achievable by transmitters available). So, according to God's word, light speed can be altered by a certain frequency. And God did this by using his voice.

It has already been determined that matter can be created by noise (frequency). Now we find that light speed may be altered by frequency as well.

#23 lwj2op2



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Posted 29 October 2005 - 10:06 PM

Looks like it has been a while since anybody wa here but I'll give a try.

[quote name='Mark John' date='Aug 24 2005, 07:40 AM']
But the age of the earth is a somewhat simpler matter. When there are millions of layers of annual sediment in rivers (i.e. Green River), there are two options: either that amount of sediment took millions of years to form, or God made an unnatural amount of sediment in a shorter period, which, as He knew, would give an appearance of age to those who look at the sediment objectively (relating physical evidence to established laws of nature, i.e. one year for the formation of each layer). Same thing with ice layers. And starlight.[QUOTE]

Millions of layers of annual sediment? Only if each layer took a year. Was anybody watching. If there wa a global flood the lasted 40 days, how many "annual" layers would it deposit? How many "annual" layers are deposited with each unusually high rain fall?
Ice layers. Same questions.
Starlight. From a literal reading of the Bible,God created the universe in a portion of a day. Seconds, less, a few minutes, hours? I have no idea. But if it was done in a portion of a day then He made it all very fast. He being God was not limited by time. Does this, as some claim, imply God might be trying to mislead us or test our faith. No. He said he did it. He did not say how. Maybe He had not set time in its current speed yet. Maybe it was all there instantly right where it should be so Adam and Eve could enjoy the entirety of creation, qite a thoughtful God.

[/QUOTE]But if the refutations are based on speculations on how God made things much faster than the evidence shows, that's basically the doctrine of "appearance of age". But I'm still open to that too.[QUOTE]

What evidence is there of the first moments of the universe?

[/QUOTE]Hypothetically speaking, (alleged) physical evidence that contradicts scripture should not deceive true believers. [QUOTE]

What physical evidence contradicts scripture?

#24 Guest_mickyjd13_*

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 06:32 PM

I agree with Mark here. I view it as a possibility (earth/universe created with appearance of age), but the scriptures used to support it are not explicit enough to draw a firm conclusion, IMO. I find that God at every single turn thwarts man's attempts to explain things naturalistically. It is real easy to establish this with evolution theory, which I firmly believe has no tangible evidence to support it and  is propped up solely by illusion (such as chimp-man DNA illusion, that was easy to show with genetics and math was untenable, though kids in our public schools are never shown this analysis, thus the illusion - evolution indoctrination at its finest). I also think God has done this with observable evidence regarding the age of the earth. For example, see this thread:


Other examples where God thwarts naturalistic explanations that immediately come to mind:

Left-handed amino acids, right-handed nucleotides and sugars
Planets spin in different directions
Moon doesn't exist, it is due to observation error (according to a musing evolutionist since the moon defies all naturalistic explanations)
Dark matter (just-so story to explain vast amount of missing mass in universe)
Horizon problem (the evolutionists own starlight problem)
Cambrian explosion
DNA information
etc. etc. etc.

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Interesting so if i sold you my 65 Toyota Land Cruoser FJ40 and spruced it up made it look like an 84 model and told you it was an 84 model and explained that it can't be a 65 model because I told you it is a 84 model would you believe me. The compliance plate says it's a 84 model but the rest of the car (the F motor the 3 speed manual the poor drum brakes) all say it is much older. I changed the compliance plate to trick you.

The Earth and the Universe at large certainly appear ancient in the extreme so the Bible must be the compliance plate and that would make me God changing it and making an old car look well less elderly.

Tell me where in the Bible is the passage that God him/her/it/self wrote. And which is correct Gensis 1 or 2 or should Genesis 2 (the older of the 2 accounts) be Genesis 1.

Cheers Mickyjd

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