Jump to content


Photo

Aliens - Ufos


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
70 replies to this topic

#41 NewPath

NewPath

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 353 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Age: 46
  • Christian
  • Creationist
  • Durban, SA

Posted 26 March 2012 - 03:48 AM

I'm not. Like I said, I don't believe in aliens. But if you believe in aliens, and you believe they are "sinless" then the are on par with God, LIKE God, being sinless, perfect. This is a fact. This would mean that they are "little Gods". So basically, to believe they are sinless means that by default one is polytheistic.


I don't see why the universe should be empty. I believe God is creative and do not doubt that the universe is filled with interesting and intelligent creatures. Its not as if angels do not have a free will, they have not been exposed to an opposite view to the extent that we have been, but they are beings with free will because the fall of Satan indicates that. I believe we are the first creation with the extent of freewill and abilities that can truly be "brothers" of Christ, and reign with Him, unlike other creations that have less responsibility. In a sense we are the first batch of "God-like" beings, adopted sons of God, reigning with Him, resurrected eternal bodies like Him.

The rest of his creation have not necessarily been in testing conditions like us, no apple tree on their planets, no Satan there. No fall either, no sin. But I do not believe that God would allow them to visit this planet while we are in such a mess, it would be off-limits. But I'm pretty sure this universe is filled with all sorts of life-forms and when we reign with Christ, who knows , we may reign over some of these planets too.

This is all speculation, we do not know the answers , but that's how I envisage the universe and don't see how it contradicts anything in the bible, the universe will always be filled with sinless creatures, but of all of them the only "Godlike" ones will be us, imperfect humans made clean through the blood of Christ. Even a lamb is regarded as a "sinless" blood sacrifice, but a lamb isn't a "God".

#42 JayShel

JayShel

    Former Atheist

  • Moderator Team
  • PipPipPip
  • 777 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida
  • Age: 36
  • Christian
  • Creationist
  • Saved July 12, 2007

Posted 26 March 2012 - 04:14 AM

Its not as if angels do not have a free will, they have not been exposed to an opposite view to the extent that we have been, but they are beings with free will because the fall of Satan indicates that.


This gives me a great idea for a new topic; how do angels differ from humans. I believe the biggest difference is that they cannot receive salvation. Once their free will breaks from serving God, they are lost forever.

New Thread: http://www.evolution...?showtopic=5039

#43 nuttypiglet

nuttypiglet

    Junior Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 15 posts
  • Age: 50
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • London

Posted 26 March 2012 - 05:26 AM

There seems to be another pre-conception, that aliens must also have an eternal soul. Why?

Angels.
I think it's in the book of enoch, they were created to inhabit the invisible realm, not the visible. It is obvious that they do have free will like us and that they have emotions.

#44 Remnant of The Abyss

Remnant of The Abyss

    Bible Inerrantist

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 178 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Raised Catholic and became born again in college. Now I'm non denominational.
  • Age: 51
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Southern USA

Posted 26 March 2012 - 08:20 AM

Totally wrong since you are equating sinlessness = God.. There are many other qualities that constitutes God, omni-present, omni-scient and all powerful.

God can may well have created beings that are 100% obedient and thus by definition are sinless.

Who are you to claim otherwise? As I said absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.



Fine. If you don't like the fact that I call sinless aliens "little Gods" (which is NOT "totally wrong" as you assert) then you explain HOW your aliens are SINLESS. Do they have free will? If the DO have free will, how do they remain sinless? If they DON'T have free will, then why did God make them like robots when He made made them this way?

Explain away!

And who am I? Someone who doesn't believe in aliens, that's who. As well as someone who's not buying what you're selling.

As far as your "secret things", that doesn't give you license to INVENT ALEINS. So far you've provided nothing from the Bible that suggests that aliens exist. I've provided Biblical evidence that they don't, based upon SALVATION.

#45 Remnant of The Abyss

Remnant of The Abyss

    Bible Inerrantist

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 178 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Raised Catholic and became born again in college. Now I'm non denominational.
  • Age: 51
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Southern USA

Posted 26 March 2012 - 08:24 AM

Do I believe in alien spacecraft? Of course. How else would the aliens get here? Students of logic will recognize this as circular reasoning. Do I believe in aliens and space visitors? No.


Apparently some on this thread are not students of logic and cannot separate the difference between the two!

#46 Remnant of The Abyss

Remnant of The Abyss

    Bible Inerrantist

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 178 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Raised Catholic and became born again in college. Now I'm non denominational.
  • Age: 51
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Southern USA

Posted 26 March 2012 - 08:32 AM

This IS in the Bible and it makes clear that there are things that we do not know and that are not shown to us by God.. Hence claiming 'if its not in the Bible its not true' is absolutely false since not everything is in the Bible to begin with, only those things God has deemed that we need to know. Therefore, (as I said before), we cannot say eitherway it is unknowable, (unless we had a direct visitation ;) )

Therefore if there was a need for redemption for these other beings it certainly wouldn't be claimed in the Bible, (as I said), the Bible is focused on Earth... Aliens from another world are not from Earth hence are not relevent to the Bible and thus are grounds for why its not included.



Hey yeah, great point. And you know what? I believe there are giant mosquitoes living on another planet somewhere, feasting on the blood of dinosaur like creatures. Why not? It fits with your "the Bible makes clear that there are things that we do not know and that are not shown to us by God". How about you PROVE this wrong? :gigglesmile:

I'm about done with this nonsense about aliens. And the lack of ANY scriptural support for them. Only this feeble attempt to prove they exist because of ONE piece of scripture that doesn't even reference them. :rolleyes:

#47 Remnant of The Abyss

Remnant of The Abyss

    Bible Inerrantist

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 178 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Raised Catholic and became born again in college. Now I'm non denominational.
  • Age: 51
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Southern USA

Posted 26 March 2012 - 08:43 AM

I don't see why the universe should be empty.


And I don't see any reason for it to be filled with life anywhere else. Unless one has the philosophy that humans are not sufficient for God. God who sent His only son to die for us. Does that indicate how important we are to Him??

You see, I believe this business about "aliens" is anti-Christian, not just some whacked out theory with no Biblical support. It's my personal belief that aliens fit this:

2 Thessalonians 2:11
For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

You see, I've met whack jobs that not only believe in aliens, but they've taken it further. They then conclude that:

1) It's possible that Jesus Christ was an "alien"
2) That this planet was seeded by "aliens"

Now I ask you and everyone else:

WHO BENEFITS BY THIS BELIEF IN ALIENS? GOD OR SATAN??

#48 Remnant of The Abyss

Remnant of The Abyss

    Bible Inerrantist

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 178 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Raised Catholic and became born again in college. Now I'm non denominational.
  • Age: 51
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Southern USA

Posted 26 March 2012 - 08:53 AM

There seems to be another pre-conception, that aliens must also have an eternal soul. Why?


You're the one that believes in aliens and started this thread. How about you providing some answers?

#49 Richard

Richard

    Junior Member

  • Advanced member
  • PipPip
  • 53 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pensacola, Florida
  • Interests:Family, Theology, Philosophy, Politics, Creation/Evolution Debate, Scuba Diving, Fishing,
  • Age: 56
  • Christian
  • Creationist
  • Pensacola

Posted 26 March 2012 - 09:47 AM

Why is that aliens sighting always take place way back in the woods or along deserted stretches of road? Why don't they land on the interstate during rush hour and break up the traffic jam with their tractor beams then throw a party with free food and drinks since they have those food replicators like on Star Trek?

#50 NewPath

NewPath

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 353 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Age: 46
  • Christian
  • Creationist
  • Durban, SA

Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:43 AM

And I don't see any reason for it to be filled with life anywhere else. Unless one has the philosophy that humans are not sufficient for God. God who sent His only son to die for us. Does that indicate how important we are to Him??

You see, I believe this business about "aliens" is anti-Christian, not just some whacked out theory with no Biblical support. It's my personal belief that aliens fit this:

2 Thessalonians 2:11
For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

You see, I've met whack jobs that not only believe in aliens, but they've taken it further. They then conclude that:

1) It's possible that Jesus Christ was an "alien"
2) That this planet was seeded by "aliens"

Now I ask you and everyone else:

WHO BENEFITS BY THIS BELIEF IN ALIENS? GOD OR SATAN??


I hear you on this, nevertheless I don't like to argue from what I feel is beneficial, I believe the truth is always the most beneficial even if it seems to contradict our position. And frankly I believe that God has had an infinite number of interesting projects in the past, and will continue to have an infinite number of interesting projects for the rest of eternity. I believe this is the nature of God, because He Himself created creativity. So I have little doubt that there are many other lifeforms of various categories, that are alien to us. Angels themselves are in effect aliens from another spiritual plane, and they come in many shapes and sizes. I don't think its right to put limitations on God, when His word is silent on the issue. Earth is an important project, but its not the only one going on.

Not that I believe any current sightings are true, frankly I doubt them all. There's a lot of unrevealed technology out there that explains some sightings.

#51 Remnant of The Abyss

Remnant of The Abyss

    Bible Inerrantist

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 178 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Raised Catholic and became born again in college. Now I'm non denominational.
  • Age: 51
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Southern USA

Posted 26 March 2012 - 12:14 PM

I hear you on this, nevertheless I don't like to argue from what I feel is beneficial, I believe the truth is always the most beneficial even if it seems to contradict our position.


Sure. But let's argue from what contradicts the Bible. I believe "aliens" do this.

And frankly I believe that God has had an infinite number of interesting projects in the past, and will continue to have an infinite number of interesting projects for the rest of eternity. I believe this is the nature of God, because He Himself created creativity. So I have little doubt that there are many other lifeforms of various categories, that are alien to us.


Just because one agrees that God is creative doesn't mean that He created aliens. So you are making a big leap by believing in aliens. "Lifeforms" are one thing-- humanoid aliens from outer space is quite another.

Angels themselves are in effect aliens from another spiritual plane, and they come in many shapes and sizes.


Let's not confuse the point here. We all know what this thread is about. There are those who claim that there are aliens from outer space. I have stated that 'angels of light' are different, and that I believe this. Angels of light are NOT the same as aliens from outer space. They are necessarily different by default. To conflate the two appears to be a desperate attempt to justify aliens from outer space.

Furthermore, those that believe in aliens from outer space have not addressed this reasonable, Biblically sound explanation for alien craft:

2 Corinthians 11:14
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

It's clear that Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. We know Satan has his minions. It's reasonable to assume that they too masquerade as angels of light. They are fallen angels and they serve Satan. All of this is reasonable.

I don't think its right to put limitations on God, when His word is silent on the issue.


How about putting limitations on speculation that contradicts the main thrust of the Bible? Such as man's broken relationship with God and God's plan of salvation. Because it's apparent that SALVATION is KEY to the humans that God created. Yet somehow aliens, who are supposedly humanoid, are given a free pass on this? No. Let's keep talking about aliens that THEIR salvation. Or lack of salvation. Either way one addresses it, I've already shown that it makes no sense logically or Biblically when discussing alien salvation. Therefore they don't exist.

Earth is an important project, but its not the only one going on.


What else is going on? You state this as fact. This is not fact. This is your opinion.

One last thing. What is your opinion on this:

WHO BENEFITS BY THIS BELIEF IN ALIENS? GOD OR SATAN??



#52 gilbo12345

gilbo12345

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,677 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Completed BBiotech (Honours)

    Currently studying Masters of Teaching.

    Enjoys games of tactics and strategy.
  • Age: 25
  • (private)
  • Creationist
  • Australia

Posted 26 March 2012 - 01:01 PM

Fine. If you don't like the fact that I call sinless aliens "little Gods" (which is NOT "totally wrong" as you assert) then you explain HOW your aliens are SINLESS. Do they have free will? If the DO have free will, how do they remain sinless? If they DON'T have free will, then why did God make them like robots when He made made them this way?

Explain away!

And who am I? Someone who doesn't believe in aliens, that's who. As well as someone who's not buying what you're selling.

As far as your "secret things", that doesn't give you license to INVENT ALEINS. So far you've provided nothing from the Bible that suggests that aliens exist. I've provided Biblical evidence that they don't, based upon SALVATION.

Fine. If you don't like the fact that I call sinless aliens "little Gods" (which is NOT "totally wrong" as you assert) then you explain HOW your aliens are SINLESS. Do they have free will? If the DO have free will, how do they remain sinless? If they DON'T have free will, then why did God make them like robots when He made made them this way?

Explain away!

And who am I? Someone who doesn't believe in aliens, that's who. As well as someone who's not buying what you're selling.

As far as your "secret things", that doesn't give you license to INVENT ALEINS. So far you've provided nothing from the Bible that suggests that aliens exist. I've provided Biblical evidence that they don't, based upon SALVATION.



How am I supposed to know? As I have been asserting is that the POSSIBILITY exists, since there is no contradiction with the Bible, (despite what you claim), and as I have shown God has intended there be more to the universe than what is revealed in the Bible, hence the fact it is not in the Bible is not evidence that the possibility is not there.


I'm not selling anything, attempting to twist what I have been saying all along is not Christian-like.... Read through my posts, all I have been saying is that the possibility exists, and that we shouldn't claim either way, for or against as it is impossible to know, (unless there is a direct visitation, then we'd know).

As I said twisting what I am saying will get you nowhere... I have not invented aliens. All I have said, and will continue to say is that the possibility exists because of the reasons I have stated above.


You haven't given Biblical evidence against Aliens since...

a) being sinless doesn't equate to God... (where does the other attributes of God fit in then? All-present, All-knowing and All-powerful also creative, just etc etc)
B) Who is to say that the Aliens are sinless, (this is your assumption), perhaps they have their own history with God, written in their own Bible... This would in no way contradict our Bible since it makes no claims against this. Hence the option is there.

#53 Remnant of The Abyss

Remnant of The Abyss

    Bible Inerrantist

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 178 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Raised Catholic and became born again in college. Now I'm non denominational.
  • Age: 51
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Southern USA

Posted 26 March 2012 - 01:28 PM

How am I supposed to know? As I have been asserting is that the POSSIBILITY exists, since there is no contradiction with the Bible, (despite what you claim), and as I have shown God has intended there be more to the universe than what is revealed in the Bible, hence the fact it is not in the Bible is not evidence that the possibility is not there.


The possibility only remains for those who refuse to see that God's plan for SALVATION for us necessarily counteracts the claim that aliens exist. Nobody here has been able to refute this yet.

I'm not selling anything, attempting to twist what I have been saying all along is not Christian-like.... Read through my posts, all I have been saying is that the possibility exists, and that we shouldn't claim either way, for or against as it is impossible to know, (unless there is a direct visitation, then we'd know).


You're peddling the possibility that aliens exist. And you're a Christian. And that's why your peddling needs to be rebuked. WE SHOULD CLAIM that belief in aliens is FALSE because it contradicts the main thrust of the Bible: God's plan for salvation!

As I said twisting what I am saying will get you nowhere... I have not invented aliens


Come on now. Do you really want to say I meant "you" invented aliens just so you can say I'm twisting your words? I guess you do. Well, I'll clarify. I didn't mean YOU specifically.


All I have said, and will continue to say is that the possibility exists because of the reasons I have stated above.


And ignore the main message of the Bible regarding salvation?

You haven't given Biblical evidence against Aliens since...

B) Who is to say that the Aliens are sinless, (this is your assumption), perhaps they have their own history with God, written in their own Bible... This would in no way contradict our Bible since it makes no claims against this. Hence the option is there.


This is NOT my assumption. I am arguing that BOTH ways are FALSE. Go back. I stated sin or sinless, either way, contradicts God's plan of salvation as stated in His word! In fact, I stated it in my first post. Yet you won't address salvation for aliens. Because you can't, it doesn't make sense logically nor Biblically.

Now, which of these two choices do you believe:

1) Christ goes around the universe sacrificing Himself to aliens on different planets
2) God does NOT have a plan for alien salvation from their sin

Then you can answer this:

WHO BENEFITS BY THIS BELIEF IN ALIENS? GOD OR SATAN??

=============================================

Clarification:

I explained this:

You haven't given Biblical evidence against Aliens since...

a) being sinless doesn't equate to God... (where does the other attributes of God fit in then? All-present, All-knowing and All-powerful also creative, just etc etc)


Here is my answer:

Fine. If you don't like the fact that I call sinless aliens "little Gods" (which is NOT "totally wrong" as you assert) then you explain HOW your aliens are SINLESS. Do they have free will? If the DO have free will, how do they remain sinless? If they DON'T have free will, then why did God make them like robots when He made made them this way?

Explain away!


Yet it's brought up AGAIN while my questions for him to explain free will go ignored. He's blowing smoke now to cover the fact that he can't answer questions about free will nor God's plan of salvation for aliens.

#54 gilbo12345

gilbo12345

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,677 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Completed BBiotech (Honours)

    Currently studying Masters of Teaching.

    Enjoys games of tactics and strategy.
  • Age: 25
  • (private)
  • Creationist
  • Australia

Posted 26 March 2012 - 02:04 PM

The possibility only remains for those who refuse to see that God's plan for SALVATION for us necessarily counteracts the claim that aliens exist. Nobody here has been able to refute this yet.



You're peddling the possibility that aliens exist. And you're a Christian. And that's why your peddling needs to be rebuked. WE SHOULD CLAIM that belief in aliens is FALSE because it contradicts the main thrust of the Bible: God's plan for salvation!



Come on now. Do you really want to say I meant "you" invented aliens just so you can say I'm twisting your words? I guess you do. Well, I'll clarify. I didn't mean YOU specifically.




And ignore the main message of the Bible regarding salvation?



This is NOT my assumption. I am arguing that BOTH ways are FALSE. Go back. I stated sin or sinless, either way, contradicts God's plan of salvation as stated in His word! In fact, I stated it in my first post. Yet you won't address salvation for aliens. Because you can't, it doesn't make sense logically nor Biblically.

Now, which of these two choices do you believe:

1) Christ goes around the universe sacrificing Himself to aliens on different planets
2) God does NOT have a plan for alien salvation from their sin

Then you can answer this:

WHO BENEFITS BY THIS BELIEF IN ALIENS? GOD OR SATAN??

=============================================

Clarification:

I explained this:



Here is my answer:



Yet it's brought up AGAIN while my questions for him to explain free will go ignored. He's blowing smoke now to cover the fact that he can't answer questions about free will nor God's plan of salvation for aliens.



Firstly talking about me in the third person is quite impersonal and to be frank isn't following the spirit of a debate... A debate is meant to be a conversation... not an expose'

How am I supposed to know if alien life are sinless, sinful or their mode of salvation. If aliens exist I am sure God wouldn't share that knowledge with the likes of me.


How do you assert that human salvation contradicts the possibility of Aliens? You have given no evidence for this, all you have stated is that it is so... Assertum non est demonstratum. Further as I said multiple times now that there is no contradiction since the topic of Aliens is not brought up in the Bible hence you are ADDING to the Bible your own opinion / interpretation since there is nothing in the Bible that claims that Aliens do not exist.


??? Who said I was Christian? I am a theistic agnostic, I believe in God but I have my reservations as to WHO God is... In essence I believe in God, but I do not believe in Religion.


Yet those were the words you wrote, I can only go on the words you write, since I am not a mind reader... 'From out the mouth the heart speaks' and so on.


It is your assumption since you have demonstrated no such thing, as I have been saying there is no contradiction in the Bible that makes the claim that Aliens could exist... As I said before, who knows perhaps God has a different plan for them than he has for us.. Who are we to try and rationalize God's plans, (as it is said God has his secrets). Who are you to make claim to what God would and wouldn't do... its the same argument as those who say that God would make perfect designs so since humans are flawed we are not products of God... How can anyone claim to know what God's plans are?

This I believe is a point of humility to be taken, since accepting that we do not know everything, (since God does have his secrets) means that we cannot claim either way, as to make such claims would be saying you have special knowledge about God and his plans. Do you claim to have such knowledge?

God would since if there were aliens then it would mean more beings created to demonstrate his glory... Satan doesn't because aliens do not contradict the Bible and thus are not a means with which to trick people.



Now I'd like to ask you somethings

- where does it specifically state in the Bible that aliens do not exist
- where does it specifically state in the Bible that we are the sole sentient beings in all the universe



EDIT:

How does this refute anything?

" Fine. If you don't like the fact that I call sinless aliens "little Gods" (which is NOT "totally wrong" as you assert) then you explain HOW your aliens are SINLESS. Do they have free will? If the DO have free will, how do they remain sinless? If they DON'T have free will, then why did God make them like robots when He made made them this way?"

Firstly aliens as "little Gods" IS wrong since even if they were sinless they wouldn't share the other qualities of God, hence are not God/s. Further when people are saved they become sinless in a new body hence would you claim them to be Gods as well or perhaps just perfect beings....

Secondly how am I supposed to know? We are talking about an unknowable thing here so your questions are absurd.

Thirdly you are asking about the purposes of God, how can anyone know God's purposes that are not claimed in the Bible, (the secret things of God).. Hence this line of questioning is absurd, and is based on a human pride to know everything. Admit the fact that we do not know everything, nor shall we since as the Bible has already said that God has kept some secrets from us, this isn't a bad thing, but is something to be mindful of when discussing things that are not covered by the Bible.

Now as I have asked in my questions I am asking YOU for quotation of the Bible to support your claims. I have done this at your request, (the secrets of God quotes), hence I respectfully ask the same of you.

Now if the Bible doesn't cover the topic of aliens... Do you admit that you are ADDING to the Bible your own opinions on the matter, and to do such is not a good thing, (as is covered in Revelations).

#55 NewPath

NewPath

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 353 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Age: 46
  • Christian
  • Creationist
  • Durban, SA

Posted 27 March 2012 - 02:21 AM

Just because one agrees that God is creative doesn't mean that He created aliens. So you are making a big leap by believing in aliens. "Lifeforms" are one thing-- humanoid aliens from outer space is quite another.



Let's not confuse the point here. We all know what this thread is about. There are those who claim that there are aliens from outer space. I have stated that 'angels of light' are different, and that I believe this. Angels of light are NOT the same as aliens from outer space. They are necessarily different by default. To conflate the two appears to be a desperate attempt to justify aliens from outer space.


In fact I tend to agree with you that humanoid aliens found on this planet would be confusing biblically. If they are God-created I believe they would firstly be told not to come to this sinful planet so you would not see them here, and secondly they would be lesser beings just like lambs and angels are lesser beings even of they do not sin, I believe its only us who are destined to be rulers and resurrected sons of God, just like Jesus.

Would this contradict the bible: some humans predicted the global flood and succesfully left the planet due to high pre-flood technology. The flood succesfully destroyed all on the planet, yet these only want to come back when the planet is more habitable because they are used to 900 year lifespans yet our oxygen starved race only live to 100 years. So they are watching and waiting, probably with DNA modified bodies so when they visit they can live longer in reptilian bodies (haha threw in a bit of conspiracy theory there).

#56 Remnant of The Abyss

Remnant of The Abyss

    Bible Inerrantist

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 178 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Raised Catholic and became born again in college. Now I'm non denominational.
  • Age: 51
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Southern USA

Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:57 AM

Firstly talking about me in the third person is quite impersonal and to be frank isn't following the spirit of a debate... A debate is meant to be a conversation... not an expose'


Nitpick. If I were more direct would you then accuse me of being too abrasive? Probably. You've already accused me of 'twisting your words' and then have the audacity to lecture me on the spirit of this debate.

How am I supposed to know if alien life are sinless, sinful or their mode of salvation. If aliens exist I am sure God wouldn't share that knowledge with the likes of me.


This about says it all. So you believe in aliens yet have no logical conclusions about them. But you did basically make camp with the "sinning aliens" camp. Now you are hedging your bet. Because either position is untenable and you see that yourself.

??? Who said I was Christian? I am a theistic agnostic, I believe in God but I have my reservations as to WHO God is... In essence I believe in God, but I do not believe in Religion.


Actually, THIS says it all. If I had know this, no personal offense, I wouldn't even be debating you on this. I admit, I wrongfully assumed you were a Christian. Now that I discover you are not, I state end of discussion, we have NO common ground to be discussing this as it pertains to the Bible.

I am going to inquire how someone who has "Creationist" listed, and Creationist only (because the other information is concealed as "private"), can be a "theistic agnostic".

But I am sorry for wasting your time on this, and somehow my unavoidable confusion over your world view has wasted MY time as well.

Finally, I am going to place you on ignore and won't be replying to any future posts you make to me. I feel deceived by your use of "private" and "Creationist". But I suppose that is to what is to be expected from someone who prides himself as a "tactician". :rolleyes:

#57 Remnant of The Abyss

Remnant of The Abyss

    Bible Inerrantist

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 178 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Raised Catholic and became born again in college. Now I'm non denominational.
  • Age: 51
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Southern USA

Posted 27 March 2012 - 09:13 AM

In fact I tend to agree with you that humanoid aliens found on this planet would be confusing biblically. If they are God-created I believe they would firstly be told not to come to this sinful planet so you would not see them here, and secondly they would be lesser beings just like lambs and angels are lesser beings even of they do not sin, I believe its only us who are destined to be rulers and resurrected sons of God, just like Jesus.


Excellent. We are in agreement then. :)

Would this contradict the bible: some humans predicted the global flood and succesfully left the planet due to high pre-flood technology. The flood succesfully destroyed all on the planet, yet these only want to come back when the planet is more habitable because they are used to 900 year lifespans yet our oxygen starved race only live to 100 years. So they are watching and waiting, probably with DNA modified bodies so when they visit they can live longer in reptilian bodies (haha threw in a bit of conspiracy theory there).


Wow. I don't see any Biblical contradiction here, but I do see a logical one. You're basically saying that today's aliens are yesteryears humans. How in the world would ancient man manage, by himself, to do space travel? It makes for good, Christian, science fiction perhaps. :0

Lastly, am I to assume that your answer to this question is "Satan"?

WHO BENEFITS BY THIS BELIEF IN ALIENS? GOD OR SATAN??

#58 NewPath

NewPath

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 353 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Age: 46
  • Christian
  • Creationist
  • Durban, SA

Posted 27 March 2012 - 12:55 PM

Wow. I don't see any Biblical contradiction here, but I do see a logical one. You're basically saying that today's aliens are yesteryears humans. How in the world would ancient man manage, by himself, to do space travel? It makes for good, Christian, science fiction perhaps. :0


Well I don't seriously believe it, but yes it would make good science fiction. The theory behind it, is that very soon after the flood, the world was filled with such high technology that some even doubt we have exceeded it yet in modern times. There are some aspects of the building of the pyramids that are still unexplained with modern technology. Some ancient texts hint at flight and bombs and electricity in these ancient civilisations. It is rumoured that a large crystal was used to power entire cities which was all appealing to new agers until scientists found that a crystal can store more than 100% of the power put into it without losing anything. It can be powered up through various means, and release that power through heating and pressure. It basically makes a fantastically powerful battery. Within 500 years of the flood there were pyramid civilisations throughout the world. Even the statues from the slightly more primitive following civilisations depict various forms of old technology, spacesuits, rockets, airplanes, mouthpieces, even electricity.

#59 Remnant of The Abyss

Remnant of The Abyss

    Bible Inerrantist

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 178 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Raised Catholic and became born again in college. Now I'm non denominational.
  • Age: 51
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Southern USA

Posted 27 March 2012 - 01:45 PM

I'm glad you don't seriously believe it. :)

I agree that the pyramids are amazing examples of advanced technology. Some day when we are with the Lord we will then know how they were built. All the other stuff you pointed out are just as fascinating. Worthy of a separate thread.

#60 JayShel

JayShel

    Former Atheist

  • Moderator Team
  • PipPipPip
  • 777 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida
  • Age: 36
  • Christian
  • Creationist
  • Saved July 12, 2007

Posted 27 March 2012 - 03:50 PM

Well I don't seriously believe it, but yes it would make good science fiction. The theory behind it, is that very soon after the flood, the world was filled with such high technology that some even doubt we have exceeded it yet in modern times. There are some aspects of the building of the pyramids that are still unexplained with modern technology. Some ancient texts hint at flight and bombs and electricity in these ancient civilisations. It is rumoured that a large crystal was used to power entire cities which was all appealing to new agers until scientists found that a crystal can store more than 100% of the power put into it without losing anything. It can be powered up through various means, and release that power through heating and pressure. It basically makes a fantastically powerful battery. Within 500 years of the flood there were pyramid civilisations throughout the world. Even the statues from the slightly more primitive following civilisations depict various forms of old technology, spacesuits, rockets, airplanes, mouthpieces, even electricity.


I think what it comes down to is that the more you add to the Bible, the more it has the potential to change important doctrine of salvation, so I caution you on overspeculation. It is fun to speculate, but sometimes I don't even post my speculation if I think it might lead people of weaker faith astray. God gave us the history of the Bible as sufficient to see who we are and why we are here, who He is, and how to obtain salvation. If He though we should know about aliens, or human beings fleeing the earth during the flood, He would have told us.

"And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD." Genesis 6: 5-8

The only person that He revealed the flood to before it happened was Noah. Why would He allow other "previously unmentioned ever before in the Bible" astronauts to escape His wrath? This theory just seems silly given a thorough reading and understanding of the history of the Bible. You have to base it completely off of what the Bible does not rule out explicitly, which is a rather shaky way to reason Biblically.

For the record, I am an alien agnostic, and I will remain this way until I see aliens in front of my face. Call me a doubting Thomas if you like.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users