1. You cannot use the properties of God to prove that He exists. You must first show that those properties are necessary and then show that those properties define God.
2. Must the first cause be "all powerful"? Can you support that logically?
3. Must the first cause have the ability to choose? Can you support that logically?
4. You are saying that mindless things do not change. What do you mean by that?
5. What if change was a part of the mindless something's properties?
6. Electromagnetic radiation changes as an inherent part of its existence.
7. Couldn't a mindless something that is eternal and outside of time have change as one of its inherent properties? Why not?
8. So you say but you don't know what is possible in an eternal timeless existence any more than I do.
9. Why do you think you can declare that a mindless thing is unable to be changing while an intelligence can be changing in that existence?
10. Your claim that a God must exist is based on assumptions that cannot be logically supported.
Gee wiz when it seems that you're being debunked you seem to just spout out questions that have already been addressed.... I'm thinking this may be either a red herring or a stalling "tactic"... Since no-one in their right minds would want to ask questions to / by them that have already been addressed and done with.
1. Already been done for you ...
Concepts are for philosophy whereas if you want to claim that there is an infinite amount of physical events then you are dealing with an "actual number" as its now meant to be something tangible within reality.
Causality is required due to the law of cause and effect. This law ensures that order is kept in that things don't spontaneously explode or pop in and out of existence etc. Therefore only things that have a sufficient cause can occur, for example a chemical reaction can only occur due to the cause of its activation energy and the energy levels of the reactants (as well as their relative affinity), we wouldn't expect reactions to occur without these requirements this expectation is due to the law of cause and effect. The first cause needs to be supernatural in order to escape requiring a cause.
Supernatual in light of being
- timeless / eternal (always existing = no need to be created)
- spaceless (something of the universe cannot create the universe, therefore there is the requirement to exist outside of this plane of existance)
- omnipotent (something that creates the entire universe would need to be all-powerful)
The role of intelligence was already demonstrated to you before, which lies in the power of choice.
I already replied to you with this quote before so your asking here means either you do not read my posts or you've forgotten.
2. Its kinda self explanatory... For something to bring into being, time, space, laws of logic, laws of nature, matter, energy, constants of matter and energy etc... That something literally MUST be all-powerful.
3. Sigh... Already been done via my recent posts but I guess you prefer to just ignore their implications. From post #147 just above"I have staked my claim in the logic that a mindless thing cannot choose to operate beyond what it is / set to do. A (mindless) clock doesn't suddenly turn its hands into legs and walk around does it? A (mindless) computer doesn't choose to turn itself on and do things without input? No.. It follows its parameters... This is observed all over in reality so if you wish to claim something different to what we see in reality you're going to need evidence.... Rather than just a statement based on opinion."
4. See point 3 since its the same thing... Since choice comes from intelligence, meaning no mindless cause.
5. See point 3, as I said, a mindless thing following its parameters is what we see in reality, you have no evidence to state otherwise, hence if you wish to claim something that defies what we see in reality you are going to need evidence... (Lest atheism be based on a personal want rather than logic).
6. That is part of its parameters..... You've mistaken change within what the mindless thing is capable of, a clocks hands change position, (because that is what it is set to do), with change that occurs from making a choice which defies the anticedent conditions prior to the choice.. For example the same clock cannot "decide" to become a ballet dancer.
7. Again change is not the issue here, and your attempt to "change" it, indicates a sleight of hand being played, (though this is obvious by your attempt to bring up points that have already been debunked, by myself and others). What is the issue is the anticedent conditions of the thing, a mindless timeless cause cannot choose to create a temporal event.
8. Read through the thread, we have been using logical lines of inference, rather than you hopeful postulating, in that 'maybe there is some way a mindless God-like thing could exist'
9. Because an intelligent cause can CHOOSE to change, that is the point!! A mindless thing is limited to what it is or programmed to do, (as I have said before), it literally doesn't "know" any other way.
10. If you bothered to read the replies and such you would see how false such a claim is...