Jump to content


Photo

6 Days Or Billions Of Years?


  • Please log in to reply
68 replies to this topic

#1 usafjay1976

usafjay1976

    Member

  • Moderator Team
  • PipPipPip
  • 418 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas
  • Interests:Religion, Creation, Air Force, Traveling, Cooking, Movies
  • Age: 39
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Texas

Posted 12 July 2013 - 05:31 AM

Okay, I know this topic has been brought up before and I wanted to start a separate thread as some threads were going off topic discussing this issue.

 

As a young earth creationist, I believe that God created in 6 literal days, not periods of time.  Here are a few of my reasons.

 

In the very beginning of Genesis, starting with chapter 1, vs. 3, God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.  God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.  God called the light "day," and the darkness "night."  And there was evening, and there was morning-the first day.

 

Now, without getting into the literal meaning of the word 'day' (yom), if you were to simply read this passage, do you interpret this as a day like we know it or some unknown period of time?  It should be very clear that 'day' means a literal 24 hour day (And there was evening, and there was morning, the first day).

 

What does God say about the 7th day?  In Genesis chapter 2, vs 2, it states:  "By the seventh day God had finished the work He had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.  Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

 

God rested on the 7th day.  Did he rest for billions of years?  Did God bless the billions of years and make those billions of years holy? 

 

I've read other posts where some individuals believe the New Testament made the Old Testament obsolete.  This is far from true.  There are some excellent articles here:

 

http://www.answersin...ted-in-six-days

 

http://creation.com/...tament-creation

 

http://www.icr.org/article/2031/

 

If you believe God used evolution during creation, why?  Forget man and the theory of evolution.  We all know man is fallible.  The theory of evolution is constantly changing.  The bible has not changed in 1000s of years.  The book of Genesis is no exception.  There are some very strong verses that support creation.  I urge you to read all of these and again, forget the evolutionary mindset and attempt to read these passages as if evolution wasn't a contender.  What part or parts of the bible support God using evolution? Are these verses null and void because man and evolution have trumped scripture?  I've bolded a few key parts of some of the verses:

 

Revelation 4:11

 

“Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created.”

 

Hebrews 11:3

 

By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

 

John 1:1-3

 

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

 

Colossians 1:16

 

For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

 

Genesis 1:24

 

And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds—livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so.

 

Exodus 20:8-11

 

“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

 

2 Peter 3:3-6 (Note there is a reference to Noah's flood in the last sentence)

 

Knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.

 

John 5:46-47

For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”

 

I would like to avoid using evolution in this thread, i.e., "Well, according to the theory of evolution, 1, 2, and 3 occurred because of X, Y, and Z".

 

What is your biblical support for an old earth and evolution?  Where and how did God use evolution? Do you believe we (humans) evolved from apes and if so, why?  Again, biblical support only please. 

 

I would like to see a theistic evolutionist or someone that doesn't believe in a literal 6 days post a timeline of events from the beginning to present, i.e. Discuss the 6 days and what happened on those days to the best of your ability. How many years ago was it?  When did Christ come into the picture?  How many years ago was it?  Did dinosaurs exist with man?  Once again, biblical support only please.

 

As Christians, we must always continue to strive to learn the truth.  God and His Word are truth.  Man will constantly try to sway us from God and have us believe we space dust.  Man will tell us the bible isn't true and science can explain everything.  Who's word do you chose?

 

 

 

 

 



#2 usafjay1976

usafjay1976

    Member

  • Moderator Team
  • PipPipPip
  • 418 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas
  • Interests:Religion, Creation, Air Force, Traveling, Cooking, Movies
  • Age: 39
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Texas

Posted 12 July 2013 - 08:10 AM

Good article called 'From Fables to Truth'

 

http://creation.com/...fables-to-truth

 

 

2 Timothy 4: 3-4

 

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but … they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables



#3 JoshuaJacob

JoshuaJacob

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 481 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ponchatoula, Louisiana
  • Age: 34
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Ponchatoula, Louisiana

Posted 12 July 2013 - 01:05 PM

I think its pretty clear if You leave out main stream secular science on the age of the earth. Real science does not go against Gods word, it only supports it. 



#4 Bond007

Bond007

    Banned

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 511 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Reading.
  • Age: 20
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Australia

Posted 12 July 2013 - 10:50 PM

John 5:46-47

For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”

Thats a good one. Deep time and evolutionism has been very successful undermining Jesus death on the cross without even mentioning his name.



#5 JoshuaJacob

JoshuaJacob

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 481 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ponchatoula, Louisiana
  • Age: 34
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Ponchatoula, Louisiana

Posted 13 July 2013 - 09:59 AM

It's like the post I made on the number of rings on the tree You would cut down a day after God created them. When God created Adam, He was a fully grown man but still was only a day old. I really do not see the deception if in fact the tree you cut down had 20-30 rings, even though it was created just the day before. As it is said, God is not the author or confusion, when He said He created the physical world and everything in it in six days, He created it in six literal days. Trying to fit secular science with the bible is what causes the confusion, not Gods word.



#6 Minnemooseus

Minnemooseus

    Banned

  • Banned
  • PipPip
  • 82 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Duluth, Minnesota
  • Age: 56
  • no affiliation
  • Atheist
  • Duluth, Minnesota

Posted 23 July 2013 - 08:34 PM

It's like the post I made on the number of rings on the tree You would cut down a day after God created them. When God created Adam, He was a fully grown man but still was only a day old. I really do not see the deception if in fact the tree you cut down had 20-30 rings, even though it was created just the day before. As it is said, God is not the author or confusion, when He said He created the physical world and everything in it in six days, He created it in six literal days. Trying to fit secular science with the bible is what causes the confusion, not Gods word.

So, you're saying "Regardless of how strong the evidence for an Earth much older than the YEC time frame, I accept what the Bible tells me".

 

Moose



#7 Bond007

Bond007

    Banned

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 511 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Reading.
  • Age: 20
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Australia

Posted 23 July 2013 - 09:17 PM

Well the biblical creationist starts with Genesis as their worldview and goes from there. The atheistic evolutionist starts with the current atheistic paradigms interpretation of the origin of the universe and goes from there. 


  • Salsa likes this

#8 usafjay1976

usafjay1976

    Member

  • Moderator Team
  • PipPipPip
  • 418 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas
  • Interests:Religion, Creation, Air Force, Traveling, Cooking, Movies
  • Age: 39
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Texas

Posted 29 July 2013 - 07:01 AM

Most of us know that Genesis 1 has the word 'day' in it.  For example in Genesis 1,

 

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

 

So by reading this, and only this, how do you interpret this as NOT being a literal day?

 

Perhaps more importantly, how should this have been written to make it more clear?



#9 Calypsis4

Calypsis4

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3,428 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Retired science teacher with 26 yrs of experience: Biology, physical sciences, & physics.
  • Age: 64
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Midwest, USA

Posted 29 July 2013 - 07:33 AM

So, you're saying "Regardless of how strong the evidence for an Earth much older than the YEC time frame, I accept what the Bible tells me".

 

Moose

 

So you're saying, "Regardless of how strong the evidence for an Earth much younger than the Darwinian time frame, I accept what the evolutionist experts tell me."

 

We don't accept guesswork and arbitrary notions about age even it if is the opinions of 'experts'.

 

P.S. Moses was right and Darwin was wrong and the available evidence agrees with it. i.e. C14 in diamonds, polonium haloes, & about a hundred other reasons:

 

http://creation.com/age-of-the-earth



#10 usafjay1976

usafjay1976

    Member

  • Moderator Team
  • PipPipPip
  • 418 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas
  • Interests:Religion, Creation, Air Force, Traveling, Cooking, Movies
  • Age: 39
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Texas

Posted 29 July 2013 - 12:44 PM

P.S. Moses was right and Darwin was wrong and the available evidence agrees with it. i.e. C14 in diamonds, polonium haloes, & about a hundred other reasons:

http://creation.com/age-of-the-earth

 

Hey Calypsis,

 

Hope you are doing well! Although I do agree with you, I really don't want to turn this thread into a debate about C-14, etc. I'd really like to know how the 'billions of years' interpretation fits in with scripture, mainly from Theistic Evolutionists or Old Earthers.  But by all means, if anyone has input, I’ll take it.  As Johnny 5 said, “innnnnnnnputttttttttttttttttttt” (Wonder who knows this movie!)

 

Anyway…

 

Based off the scripture I've quoted and a few basic questions, I would like to hear how they validate or support their 'billions of years' view as this does not support a biblical point of view.

 

No evolution here. Let's stricly go off what the bible says. And I put in my last post concerning the days of creation,

 

"how should this have been written to make it more clear?"



#11 Calypsis4

Calypsis4

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3,428 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Retired science teacher with 26 yrs of experience: Biology, physical sciences, & physics.
  • Age: 64
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Midwest, USA

Posted 29 July 2013 - 01:44 PM

Hey Calypsis,

 

Hope you are doing well! Although I do agree with you, I really don't want to turn this thread into a debate about C-14, etc. I'd really like to know how the 'billions of years' interpretation fits in with scripture, mainly from Theistic Evolutionists or Old Earthers.  But by all means, if anyone has input, I’ll take it.  As Johnny 5 said, “innnnnnnnputttttttttttttttttttt” (Wonder who knows this movie!)

 

Anyway…

 

Based off the scripture I've quoted and a few basic questions, I would like to hear how they validate or support their 'billions of years' view as this does not support a biblical point of view.

 

No evolution here. Let's stricly go off what the bible says. And I put in my last post concerning the days of creation,

 

"how should this have been written to make it more clear?"

 

 

O.K. for us the Bible is the bottom line because it comes from God.



#12 usafjay1976

usafjay1976

    Member

  • Moderator Team
  • PipPipPip
  • 418 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas
  • Interests:Religion, Creation, Air Force, Traveling, Cooking, Movies
  • Age: 39
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Texas

Posted 07 August 2013 - 10:56 AM

I was really hoping to hear from some old earthers or theistic evolutionists.  Anyone?



#13 Nexys

Nexys

    Junior Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 17 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Astronomy, Education, Media, Politics, Psychology, Sociology
  • Age: 32
  • no affiliation
  • Theistic Evolutionist
  • Indiana

Posted 28 August 2013 - 02:00 PM

usafjay1976,

I am curious, does your request for an answer extend to the theistic evolutionary supporters who are not Christians? Personally, I do believe in a god, just not the god of Christianity. Thus, I have no biblical answer to your questions, as I do not accept the bible as an authority on anything.

#14 Calypsis4

Calypsis4

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3,428 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Retired science teacher with 26 yrs of experience: Biology, physical sciences, & physics.
  • Age: 64
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Midwest, USA

Posted 28 August 2013 - 03:30 PM

usafjay1976,

I am curious, does your request for an answer extend to the theistic evolutionary supporters who are not Christians? Personally, I do believe in a god, just not the god of Christianity. Thus, I have no biblical answer to your questions, as I do not accept the bible as an authority on anything.

 

Well, how wrong you are. That's like saying you don't believe that gravity holds us to the ground...but it still does whether you believe in it or not.



#15 Nexys

Nexys

    Junior Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 17 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Astronomy, Education, Media, Politics, Psychology, Sociology
  • Age: 32
  • no affiliation
  • Theistic Evolutionist
  • Indiana

Posted 28 August 2013 - 04:22 PM

 
Well, how wrong you are. That's like saying you don't believe that gravity holds us to the ground...but it still does whether you believe in it or not.


Though I understand your basis for your assertion here, I have seen no such evidence as to suggest the legitamacy of your claim.

Now, that said, my previous question still is unaddressed.

#16 Calypsis4

Calypsis4

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3,428 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Retired science teacher with 26 yrs of experience: Biology, physical sciences, & physics.
  • Age: 64
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Midwest, USA

Posted 28 August 2013 - 06:49 PM

Though I understand your basis for your assertion here, I have seen no such evidence as to suggest the legitamacy of your claim.

Now, that said, my previous question still is unaddressed.

 

I do. I see lots of it, including at least three legitimate examples of resurrection from the dead in the name of Jesus Christ the last 13 yrs.

 

Here's one:



#17 Nexys

Nexys

    Junior Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 17 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Astronomy, Education, Media, Politics, Psychology, Sociology
  • Age: 32
  • no affiliation
  • Theistic Evolutionist
  • Indiana

Posted 28 August 2013 - 07:01 PM

I see nothing in that video which leads me to believe that your god had anything to do with it. The video is merely conjecture and "I felt..." comments. One claiming to have "felt God" before entering the room is not proof of anything beyond that person's personal perceptions and ideas.

Thus, again, I still see no evidence to support your assertion and my previous question is still left unaddressed.

#18 Calypsis4

Calypsis4

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3,428 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Retired science teacher with 26 yrs of experience: Biology, physical sciences, & physics.
  • Age: 64
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Midwest, USA

Posted 28 August 2013 - 07:21 PM

I see nothing in that video which leads me to believe that your god had anything to do with it. The video is merely conjecture and "I felt..." comments. One claiming to have "felt God" before entering the room is not proof of anything beyond that person's personal perceptions and ideas.

Thus, again, I still see no evidence to support your assertion and my previous question is still left unaddressed.

 

Then your prejudice is sticking out like a sore thumb. Dr.Crandall was led by the Holy Spirit to pray over that man before he was revived...a man who had been clincally dead for the better part of an hour. He was later questioned by an assembly of 120 doctors who examined the matter and none of them challenged the legitimacy of what happened.

 

The fact is that Christianity would not even exist in our day if the Lord Jesus Christ had not risen from the dead bodily and physically as He promised His disciples that he would (at least eight times in the gospels). His followers would not have gone forth to spread the gospel of a liar had that been the case.

 

Having seen the power of God and many direct answers to prayer in my own experience I no longer have any doubts about the reality of Christ or the truthfulness of the Bible.

 

P.S. if you are a theistic evolutionist as your info box tells us then why are you denying the Creator God of scripture?



#19 Nexys

Nexys

    Junior Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 17 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Astronomy, Education, Media, Politics, Psychology, Sociology
  • Age: 32
  • no affiliation
  • Theistic Evolutionist
  • Indiana

Posted 28 August 2013 - 08:04 PM

 
Then your prejudice is sticking out like a sore thumb. Dr.Crandall was led by the Holy Spirit to pray over that man before he was revived...a man who had been clincally dead for the better part of an hour. He was later questioned by an assembly of 120 doctors who examined the matter and none of them challenged the legitimacy of what happened.
 
The fact is that Christianity would not even exist in our day if the Lord Jesus Christ had not risen from the dead bodily and physically as He promised His disciples that he would (at least eight times in the gospels). His followers would not have gone forth to spread the gospel of a liar had that been the case.
 
Having seen the power of God and many direct answers to prayer in my own experience I no longer have any doubts about the reality of Christ or the truthfulness of the Bible.
 
P.S. if you are a theistic evolutionist as your info box tells us then why are you denying the Creator God of scripture?


I deny your god because I don't believe in him. I am still a theist, and believe in a creator god, just not as Christians define it. And as for bias, that it fine if you want to think that. But I need more than a biased Christian news source to believe the claims in your video.

#20 Salsa

Salsa

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,231 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Age: 57
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Uppsala, Sweden

Posted 29 August 2013 - 01:49 AM

I deny your god because I don't believe in him. I am still a theist, and believe in a creator god, just not as Christians define it. And as for bias, that it fine if you want to think that. But I need more than a biased Christian news source to believe the claims in your video.

 

Hi Nexys

 

I thought you were a deist, rather than a theist which I think would indicate that that "your god" definitely didn't do it. Also, appealing to bias is pointless in a world where everyone has a bias, don't you think?

 

Coming from a similar background as you do I understand how you think that arguing about who's God "did it" might seem petty, and that subscribing to a deistic God might be the perfect means of saving you from such pettiness, but I'm sorry to say that it doesn't. From a Christian point of view it is very inportant who's God "did it" because we are not trying to present a view that is universallly popular, but rather one that reflects the truth, not from a human perspective, but from that of a theistic God - one who is involved in our decisions and choices and concerned about our thoughts and attitudes.

 

Now I was raised to believe that God was some kind of cosmic lightbulb that although being someone, or something, that radiated love all over the place and had the courtesy to create the universe for us, somehow couldn't be bothered to do much more than that, which doesn't make a pot of sense when you think about it!

 

If you study the work of an artist then you will be able to pick up certain qualities about him. Someone who paints a bunch of splotches on a canvas for example probably has other concerns and thoughts as someone who paints a mother embracing a small child. Their work testifies something about them and gives us information about who they are and how they think.

 

A lightbulb, or a "force", or "cosmic energy", might paint splotches (even though I doubt even that) but it definitely wouldn't paint a loving and caring mother that is concerned about the well-being of her child and then turns it's back on her and leave her to her fate, would he? A creator cares about what he creates. Otherwise why on earth would he create it?

 

Now I can understand that there are objections about a theistic view, such as the existence of evil and so on, but I actually think that these things can be addressed and explained to a large degree, and even though we fall short of the immense understanding that would be required when figuring out all the complexities involved in creating beings that have free will and explaining all the actions of a theistic God, I think theism makes a whole lot more sense than falling back on a belief in a deistic God that doesn't care enough about what he created to do anything about.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users