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6 Days Or Billions Of Years?


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#61 Dave

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 07:40 AM

Firstly, thank you for your welcome.

No, I'm not a gap theorist.  I believe in six consecutive days - no gaps - as in Monday to Saturday.  In effect, I believe in two stages of creation - the earth was in existence before the famous "six days" of creation.

I think that what Goku is referring to is the gap in Gen 1:2, the tohuw and bohuw when the earth was without form and void.

 

It's unusual to have an old-earth/6-day-creation mix, so I'm interested in hearing your take on that. Can you start a new topic in Bible Q&A laying out your theory?

 

Thanks, and welcome to the forum.



#62 Dredge

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 01:29 AM

I think that what Goku is referring to is the gap in Gen 1:2, the tohuw and bohuw when the earth was without form and void.

It's unusual to have an old-earth/6-day-creation mix, so I'm interested in hearing your take on that. Can you start a new topic in Bible Q&A laying out your theory?

Thanks, and welcome to the forum.

Thanks for your welcome, Dave. I don't know if my theory is worth starting a new topic over, as it is really based on a small and maybe weak premise - ie, there is no mention of the earth being created on the first day in Genesis 1, which I would expect if indeed the earth was created on that day.

As for Goku's possible reference to the gap between when the earth was without form and void and the "six days", I don't have much to say about that either - except that I don't think my theory contradicts Scripture and I have no idea how long the earth existed before the six days. I accept Geneis 1 as the truth, but also as a deep mystery - for example, if the Sun was created on Day Four, what was the "light" that was created on Day One that led to the first evening and morning?

On the other hand, there are many compelling and fascinating scientific arguments advanced by YECs.

P.S. I just tired to start a new topic in Bible Q&A as you suggested, but couldn't get access.

P.P.S. I love your signature! The "Christianity without Christ" bit, esp, sounds a lot like what mainstream Catholicism has been serving up for the last 40 years. They preach cultural Marxism and call it the "Gospel in action" or "Social Justice".

#63 mike the wiz

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 05:23 AM

Dredge it's refreshing to find someone that takes an identical position to me on Genesis. Because it says, "in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth", I've always entertained at least the possibility in my mind that earth was there in some primordial state, for an unknown period.

 

Like you I am not at all dogmatic about this issue. Literally to my mind, it is open to discussion and there is just a bit of room in some verses, for interpretation. If starlight is really 13.8 billion years, I don't mind as I still accept that life is about 6,000 years or so, ago. Or thousands at least. I don't mind if it is 15,000 years either, or 33,000 years I just believe human documented history and bible extrapolation gives approx the 5-7,000 year mark. 



#64 Dredge

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 11:44 PM

Hi Dredge, Welcome to the forum. 
 
I see that you are an OEC, but you also take the six days of creation literally. Does this mean you are a gap theorist?

Yes, I guess I am a gap theorist.

#65 Dredge

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 11:54 PM

Dredge it's refreshing to find someone that takes an identical position to me on Genesis. Because it says, "in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth", I've always entertained at least the possibility in my mind that earth was there in some primordial state, for an unknown period.

Like you I am not at all dogmatic about this issue. Literally to my mind, it is open to discussion and there is just a bit of room in some verses, for interpretation. If starlight is really 13.8 billion years, I don't mind as I still accept that life is about 6,000 years or so, ago. Or thousands at least. I don't mind if it is 15,000 years either, or 33,000 years I just believe human documented history and bible extrapolation gives approx the 5-7,000 year mark.

G'day Mike! Apparently you and I are Gap Theorists - a term I wasn't familiar with until I signed onto this site! The creation of the earth was a major, major event, so if it was created on the first day, why is there no mention of it whatsoever? A very curious ommission, I must say.

However, I'm dead against thesitic evolution. It's a theological disaster zone.

#66 mike the wiz

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 02:46 AM

Dredge, fair enough if you want to be called a gap-theorist. I wouldn't jump to calling yourself that though, I believe gap theorists may have some additional beliefs that go with being a gap theorist so I wouldn't be comfortable calling myself that.

 

Though like you I appreciate we do seem to entertain a gap of some sort, in that there is an undefined amount of time between when God says He created the heavens and earth, and the days, which it does not tell us.

 

The first verse of Genesis strikes me as an exceedingly general statement, in my own words it seems to be saying this; "In the beginning God created the universe and the earth. The earth was formless...etc.."

 

So it's not so much that there is a gap. For me it's that the first verse says God created the heavens and earth and it does not tell us how long that took, because at the point where the earth was formless and void, is the point AFTER He had created the heavens and earth. Did that creation take 1 second? 1 minute? 1 hour? So before the days of perfecting, the six days, how do we know how long it takes to create a heaven and earth? 1 million years? 1 billion? 100 billion? It simply doesn't tell us how much time it took for God to create the heavens and earth.

 

It does at least seem reasonable, to me, that the stars and sun may be the creation of our solar system. Perhaps the stars and galaxies were also created when God created the "heavens" in the first verse, because as we know, "stars" would also refer to the planets.

 

I admit this is all my own conjecture. I myself don't take any stance on this. I am not a gap theorist or an old earther or a young earther. For me the issue isn't important enough to give myself a name that is a defining characteristic. For example I wouldn't call myself a, "T-shirt wearing computer game player". To call myself a "old earth creationist" or a "young earth creationist" to me is like saying, I am a, "stargazing pet owner."

 

:D

 

Who cares really? If it took God 1 second that shouldn't bother us, and if it took God 1 million years, again, it may also take someone ten minutes to mow their lawn, or one hour, I really cannot find any great meaning in this, personally. Lol



#67 Dredge

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 03:06 AM

Dredge, fair enough if you want to be called a gap-theorist. I wouldn't jump to calling yourself that though, I believe gap theorists may have some additional beliefs that go with being a gap theorist so I wouldn't be comfortable calling myself that.

Point taken. In the last few days I've been reading up on what Gap Theorist believe and I've come across some preety strange stuff, so like you, I am dubious about accepting the GT label.
 

Though like you I appreciate we do seem to entertain a gap of some sort, in that there is an undefined amount of time between when God says He created the heavens and earth, and the days, which it does not tell us.
  
So it's not so much that there is a gap. For me it's that the first verse says God created the heavens and earth and it does not tell us how long that took, because at the point where the earth was formless and void, is the point AFTER He had created the heavens and earth. Did that creation take 1 second? 1 minute? 1 hour? So before the days of perfecting, the six days, how do we know how long it takes to create a heaven and earth? 1 million years? 1 billion? 100 billion? It simply doesn't tell us how much time it took for God to create the heavens and earth.
 
It does at least seem reasonable, to me, that the stars and sun may be the creation of our solar system. Perhaps the stars and galaxies were also created when God created the "heavens" in the first verse, because as we know, "stars" would also refer to the planets.

Yes, I agree.

Day Four may describe the creation of our solar system? ... this sounds like a very reasonable conjecture and one which never occurred to me. But I like it and mght add it to my theory - thanks! (Hope this doesn't mean I've infringed your intellectual copyright law.)
 

#68 cheeseburger

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 05:36 PM

Day Four may describe the creation of our solar system? ... this sounds like a very reasonable conjecture and one which never occurred to me. But I like it and mght add it to my theory - thanks! (Hope this doesn't mean I've infringed your intellectual copyright law.)


How could the author of genesis know what happened on day 4 if humans weren't created until day 6? If God described the events of genesis 1 to the author it seems odd the author wouldn't mention it (to prove the narrative's authenticity). If God had added some details about creating other solid structures going round the sun on day 4 the text would have indisputable predictive power - seems a bit of a missed opportunity.

#69 mike the wiz

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 02:15 AM

 

 

Dredge: Day Four may describe the creation of our solar system? ... this sounds like a very reasonable conjecture and one which never occurred to me. But I like it and mght add it to my theory - thanks! (Hope this doesn't mean I've infringed your intellectual copyright law.) 

 

Lol, you dag. ;) You can add it to your speculations, though the chances I am correct seem slim. 

 

It's only conjectural, God hasn't given me the answers to such things!

 

So guday moit, guday moit, guday moit!!! :D






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