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Scientist Fired Over Soft Tissue In T-Tops Dino


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#1 Calypsis4

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 05:12 PM

Here we go again, gang. Those open minded, tolerant, loving evolutionists have bared their teeth at creationism yet again:

 

Lawsuit: CSUN Scientist Fired After Soft Tissue Found On Dinosaur Fossil

 

LOS ANGELES (CBSLA.com) July 24, 2014 — Attorneys for a California State University, Northridge scientist who was terminated from his job after discovering soft tissue on a triceratops fossil have filed a lawsuit against the university.

 

While at the Hell Creek Formation excavation site in Montana, researcher Mark Armitage discovered what he believed to be the largest triceratops horn ever unearthed at the site, according to attorney Brad Dacus of Pacific Justice Institute.

 

Upon examination of the horn under a high-powered microscope back at CSUN, Dacus says Armitage was “fascinated” to find soft tissue on the sample – a discovery Bacus said stunned members of the school’s biology department and even some studentsicon1.png“because it indicates that dinosaurs roamed the earth only thousands of years in the past rather than going extinct 60 million years ago.”

 

“Since some creationists, like [Armitage], believe that the triceratops bones are only 4,000 years old at most, [Armitage's] work vindicated his view that these dinosaurs roamed the planet relatively recently,”according to the complaint (PDF) filed July 22 in Los Angeles Superior Court.

The lawsuit against the CSUN board of trustees cites discrimination for perceived religious views.

 

Armitage’s findings were eventually published in July 2013 in a peer-reviewed scientific journal.

According to court documents, shortly after the original soft tissue discovery, a CSUN official told Armitage, “We are not going to tolerate your religion in this department!”

 

Armitage, a published scientist of over 30 years, was subsequently let go after CSUN abruptly claimed his appointment at the university of 38 months had been temporary, and claimed a lack of funding for his position, according to attorneys.

 

“Terminating an employeeicon1.png because of their religious views is completely inappropriate and illegal,” Dacus said in a statement. “But doing so in an attempt to silence scientific speech at a public university is even more alarming. This should be a wakeup call and warning to the entire world of academia.”

 

The outburst of the CSUN official at Armitage smacks of Job 21:14 Therefore they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways.

 

It all makes you wonder why they hired the man in the first place. But they certainly don't want the truth...the truth that soft tissue could possibly last for 60 million years. Of course other evo's like Mary Schweitzer and her followers have comfortably moved the goalposts of such a phenomen to a few thousand years. So I suppose that playing against an oppoenent like that we can never win. Right?


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#2 gilbo12345

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 05:46 PM

Here we go again, gang. Those open minded, tolerant, loving evolutionists have bared their teeth at creationism yet again:

 

Lawsuit: CSUN Scientist Fired After Soft Tissue Found On Dinosaur Fossil

 

LOS ANGELES (CBSLA.com) July 24, 2014 — Attorneys for a California State University, Northridge scientist who was terminated from his job after discovering soft tissue on a triceratops fossil have filed a lawsuit against the university.

 

While at the Hell Creek Formation excavation site in Montana, researcher Mark Armitage discovered what he believed to be the largest triceratops horn ever unearthed at the site, according to attorney Brad Dacus of Pacific Justice Institute.

 

Upon examination of the horn under a high-powered microscope back at CSUN, Dacus says Armitage was “fascinated” to find soft tissue on the sample – a discovery Bacus said stunned members of the school’s biology department and even some studentsicon1.png“because it indicates that dinosaurs roamed the earth only thousands of years in the past rather than going extinct 60 million years ago.”

 

“Since some creationists, like [Armitage], believe that the triceratops bones are only 4,000 years old at most, [Armitage's] work vindicated his view that these dinosaurs roamed the planet relatively recently,”according to the complaint (PDF) filed July 22 in Los Angeles Superior Court.

The lawsuit against the CSUN board of trustees cites discrimination for perceived religious views.

 

Armitage’s findings were eventually published in July 2013 in a peer-reviewed scientific journal.

According to court documents, shortly after the original soft tissue discovery, a CSUN official told Armitage, “We are not going to tolerate your religion in this department!”

 

Armitage, a published scientist of over 30 years, was subsequently let go after CSUN abruptly claimed his appointment at the university of 38 months had been temporary, and claimed a lack of funding for his position, according to attorneys.

 

“Terminating an employeeicon1.png because of their religious views is completely inappropriate and illegal,” Dacus said in a statement. “But doing so in an attempt to silence scientific speech at a public university is even more alarming. This should be a wakeup call and warning to the entire world of academia.”

 

The outburst of the CSUN official at Armitage smacks of Job 21:14 Therefore they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways.

 

It all makes you wonder why they hired the man in the first place. But they certainly don't want the truth...the truth that soft tissue could possibly last for 60 million years. Of course other evo's like Mary Schweitzer and her followers have comfortably moved the goalposts of such a phenomen to a few thousand years. So I suppose that playing against an oppoenent like that we can never win. Right?

 

I hope he gets a huge payout smile.png

 

Its silly stuff like this that boils my blood. I also hope that some people read this and see how the "scientific establishment / consensus / etc" isn't as open-minded as they are taught to believe.

 

Honestly its been the same in the past (and will be for the future), many scientists are too stubborn to be open to new possibilities or to accept data which contradicts their contrived interpretations... This was why Mendel was ignored for over 40 years, yet as it turns out he is now deemed the "father of genetics", also why the "junk DNA" evolutionist myth held scientific discoveries, in genetics and biochemistry, back a few decades.

 

Scientists NEED to be taught how to self-evaluate and be critical of their own interpretations... Many don't even realise when they are interpreting something, they think it just is...


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#3 nmp9463

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 07:47 PM

I'm Favoriting this. I hear all the time from evolutionists how, unlike Creationists they say, science is always welcome to new ideas and is always changing and willing to go against items that were previously accepted as 100% true. What lies. 

Also goes against their claim the evolutionists are accepting of soft tissue and that that it can fit with evolutionary theory, as in this case it is still clearly being rejected by many evolutionists.

But why is Armitage being fired and Mary Schweitzer wasn't?


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#4 piasan

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 12:04 AM

As I pointed out on this matter in another subject thread..... I'm going to reserve judgment until more information becomes available.  When I read the abstract of Armetige's paper, I saw nothing controversial and the discovery of soft tissue in dino remains itself is no longer big news.

 

The initial find was a good example of serendipity.  Schwitzer had a bone that was too big to put on the helicopter available, so she had it cut in two... something that, as far as I know, had never been done before.  That incident led to the original discovery.   Since then, scientists have been looking more closely and found (if my reading on this is correct) somewhere around 40-50% of articulated samples have such material.



#5 Kairos2014

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 02:36 AM

Nice finding. Where can I read the original source? I only found a few links but I can't say for sure if the source is legit: http://2127news.net/...earth-together/

 

So what does this mean? Will they remove Evolution out of the picture, and come to a conclusion Creationism will be taught at schools/uni?

 

This is great news. Hi-five for the Lord.



#6 FaithfulCenturion

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 05:54 AM

As I pointed out on this matter in another subject thread..... I'm going to reserve judgment until more information becomes available.  When I read the abstract of Armetige's paper, I saw nothing controversial and the discovery of soft tissue in dino remains itself is no longer big news.
 
The initial find was a good example of serendipity.  Schwitzer had a bone that was too big to put on the helicopter available, so she had it cut in two... something that, as far as I know, had never been done before.  That incident led to the original discovery.   Since then, scientists have been looking more closely and found (if my reading on this is correct) somewhere around 40-50% of articulated samples have such material.


This makes me wonder, how much have we missed out on(scientifically speaking) because of the assumption that dinosaurs went extinct millions of years ago?

#7 Adam Nagy

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 06:21 AM

This makes me wonder, how much have we missed out on(scientifically speaking) because of the assumption that dinosaurs went extinct millions of years ago?

That's a good question.

#8 Calypsis4

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 12:04 PM

Nice finding. Where can I read the original source? I only found a few links but I can't say for sure if the source is legit: http://2127news.net/...earth-together/

 

So what does this mean? Will they remove Evolution out of the picture, and come to a conclusion Creationism will be taught at schools/uni?

 

This is great news. Hi-five for the Lord.

 

You can find it here, friend: http://losangeles.cb...inosaur-fossil/

 

God bless you.


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#9 gilbo12345

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 03:00 PM

This makes me wonder, how much have we missed out on(scientifically speaking) because of the assumption that dinosaurs went extinct millions of years ago?

 

That's a good question.

 

It is a good question.

 

Just like with the assumptions of "junk DNA" our knowledge of genetics was set back a few decades, only now are we progressing into the guts of Biochemistry and what makes it operate, beyond proteins. What has evolutionary beliefs stunted our knowledge of now?


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#10 Kairos2014

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:53 PM

 

You can find it here, friend: http://losangeles.cb...inosaur-fossil/

 

God bless you.

Thanks my friend



#11 Kairos2014

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 11:55 PM

Hey guys, I told my atheist friends about this article and they reckon Mark Armitage is not a Scientist? How do we know his credentials, it shouldn't really matter right? I am curious to know what the University is doing with the evidence this very moment? Are they trying to seal it from the public or stop outside scientist to examine the fossil?



#12 FaithfulCenturion

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 12:04 AM

Hey guys, I told my atheist friends about this article and they reckon Mark Armitage is not a Scientist? How do we know his credentials, it shouldn't really matter right? I am curious to know what the University is doing with the evidence this very moment? Are they trying to seal it from the public or stop outside scientist to examine the fossil?

Mr. Armitage is most definitely a scientist. Was he preforming scientific experiments? (His exact title was/is microscope scientist) Atheists/evolutionists often like to claim who is or is not a scientist based on their worldview.

http://www.ancient-o...-001906#!bpA640

#13 piasan

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 02:15 AM

Hey guys, I told my atheist friends about this article and they reckon Mark Armitage is not a Scientist? How do we know his credentials, it shouldn't really matter right? I am curious to know what the University is doing with the evidence this very moment? Are they trying to seal it from the public or stop outside scientist to examine the fossil?

Mark H. Armitage earned a BS in Education from Liberty University and an MS in Biology (parasitology), under Richard Lumsden (Ph.D. Rice and Dean of Tulane University’s graduate program) at the Institute for Creation Research in San Diego, CA. He later graduated Ed.S. in Science Education from Liberty University and is a doctoral candidate there.

Source:  http://creation.com/mark-h-armitage

 

There are a lot of Mark Armitage's out there, and I wasn't sure this was the right one until I found this http://kgov.com/triceratops which mentioned he's a member of the CRS board.



#14 Kairos2014

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 04:42 AM

Mark H. Armitage earned a BS in Education from Liberty University and an MS in Biology (parasitology), under Richard Lumsden (Ph.D. Rice and Dean of Tulane University’s graduate program) at the Institute for Creation Research in San Diego, CA. He later graduated Ed.S. in Science Education from Liberty University and is a doctoral candidate there.

Source:  http://creation.com/mark-h-armitage

 

There are a lot of Mark Armitage's out there, and I wasn't sure this was the right one until I found this http://kgov.com/triceratops which mentioned he's a member of the CRS board.

 

Thanks piasan. I just found his wiki page: http://evolutionwiki...ark_H._Armitage.

 

"He received his "Masters Degree" from the regionally unaccredited Institute for Creation Research Graduate School (although his M.S. degree is recognized by the U.S. Department of Education)"

 

 

Why does it say unaccredited but recognized by U.S Department of Eduction? But he received his 'Masters Degree'. Would that definitely qualify him as a legit Scientist? I need to know so I can tell all my Atheist mates in put them in their place!



#15 lifepsyop

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 05:10 AM

Kevin Anderson, a YEC and an "accredited" biologist,  co-authored the Armitage paper.

 

Soft sheets of fibrillar bone from a fossil of the supraorbital horn of the dinosaur Triceratops horridus

 

 

They found osteocyte (bone) cells with the filipodial hair-like structures still preserved.  Those are like sensors that tell the bone whether to keep developing or not.  To my knowledge, this is even more significant because the fillipodia, being so fragile in nature, would be expected to decay faster,  yet here they are.

 

triceratops-tissue-armitage.png


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#16 gilbo12345

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:00 AM

 

Thanks piasan. I just found his wiki page: http://evolutionwiki...ark_H._Armitage.

 

 

Why does it say unaccredited but recognized by U.S Department of Eduction? But he received his 'Masters Degree'. Would that definitely qualify him as a legit Scientist? I need to know so I can tell all my Atheist mates in put them in their place!

 

Wikipedia isn't all too reliable and generally has an evolutionist slant.. I figure calling it "unaccredited" was an "accidental" addition wink.png

 

Edit: Just checked out the link and it is the "Evowiki page" so we can definitely expect an evolutionist slant. If it is recognised then it is accredited... The "unaccredited" part has no reference so it seems it is artistic license ;)


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#17 bov930527

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:50 AM

 

Wikipedia isn't all too reliable and generally has an evolutionist slant.. I figure calling it "unaccredited" was an "accidental" addition wink.png

 

Edit: Just checked out the link and it is the "Evowiki page" so we can definitely expect an evolutionist slant. If it is recognised then it is accredited... The "unaccredited" part has no reference so it seems it is artistic license wink.png

 

Right... Laughable is what it is.

 

Random Guy: "Hey, check this out! A scientist who recently got a nobel prize in molecular biology now says there is evidence for young Earth!"

Evolutionist: "Aaahh, but you see the nobel prize he got was unaccredited."

 

Like you said Gilbo, if his masters was recognized by an institute or university, then by definition he is "accredited". The only way any scientist could be "unaccredited" is if they actually made their MS in Microsoft Word and printed it themselves at home. If not, then I would like to see the method used by evolutionists to differentiate between "accredited" and "unaccredited" scientists, even though both have viable documents proving their credentials.

 

Regards


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#18 piasan

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 09:45 AM

Why does it say unaccredited but recognized by U.S Department of Eduction? But he received his 'Masters Degree'. Would that definitely qualify him as a legit Scientist? I need to know so I can tell all my Atheist mates in put them in their place!

I hesitate to get into this on account of rule #7 "Ad hominem attacks -- discussions about someone's credentials or character are disallowed unless the exchange necessitates a clear need to point out a problem with a source of the information. Such exceptions shall be few and brief. " 

 

There are a number of notable creationists who got their degrees from what we call "diploma mills."  That is, schools without academic accreditation.  In academic terms, a degree from one of those schools isn't worth the paper it's written on.  One of the things I warn my students who choose to go to Christian colleges about is to make certain the school has proper academic accreditation.  The reason is that one of my mother's students attended a Christian college without such accreditation for four years.  Then that student tried to transfer to a state operated school and less than one year of her credits would transfer.  That said, there are many outstanding schools operated by religious groups such as Notre Dame, Loyola, Pepperdine, and my own first university, the University of San Francisco.  I feel it is important to advise my students about this issue so they don't encounter the same problem as my mother's student.  There are some accrediting agencies that specialize in the accreditation of Christian schools.  Since these schools operate under a religious accreditation, they are exempt from normal government accreditation requirements.

 

In the case of ICR, as I recall one of their reasons for leaving California was that they were having accreditation difficulties.  That is mentioned in the following Creationwiki article.  (Note:  I'm using Creationwiki to avoid accusations of "evolutionist bias" in this information):

The ICR Graduate School was founded in 1981 (edit to remove copy-paste mess-up) and began its course offerings immediately after being approved to confer degrees from the California Department of Education.[4] The school was originally located in El Cajon, California, and until recently was accredited under the Transnational Association Of Christian Colleges and Schools (TRACS) through the Federal Department of Education.....

In 2006, at the urging of Henry Morris, ICR approved and set in motion a plan to relocate most of its operations, including the school, to Texas ...

It then relocated in Dallas, Texas, and began seeking formal accreditation from that State's Higher Education Co-ordinating Board ....

After a lengthy legal battle, the Federal court in Austin Texas ultimately ruled against the Institute for Creation Research on June 17, 2010 preventing ICR from offering degrees.   On June 25, 2010 the Institute for Creation Research board of directors voted to close the doors of the ICR Graduate School effective June 30, 2010

Source  http://creationwiki....Graduate_School

  

There's a lot more detail at creationwiki including a settlement paid by California to ICR.

 

All of that being said, so far as I can tell, Armitage was doing scientific research at a state funded and accredited university at the time of his discovery and the publication of it.  So he was doing "legitimate" science.



#19 piasan

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 10:02 AM

Right... Laughable is what it is.

 

Random Guy: "Hey, check this out! A scientist who recently got a nobel prize in molecular biology now says there is evidence for young Earth!"

Evolutionist: "Aaahh, but you see the nobel prize he got was unaccredited."

 

Like you said Gilbo, if his masters was recognized by an institute or university, then by definition he is "accredited". The only way any scientist could be "unaccredited" is if they actually made their MS in Microsoft Word and printed it themselves at home. If not, then I would like to see the method used by evolutionists to differentiate between "accredited" and "unaccredited" scientists, even though both have viable documents proving their credentials.

Your comments indicate a lack of familiarity with academic accreditation.  First, Nobel prizes are not accredited, schools are.  It's a way to try and maintain quality of education.  I've gone thru the process twice at the high school where I teach.  The accreditation team has the freedom to look into pretty much anything they want including lesson plans; text books; facilities; attendance; teacher certifications and even the transcripts of the teachers.



#20 bov930527

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 11:26 AM

Your comments indicate a lack of familiarity with academic accreditation.  First, Nobel prizes are not accredited, schools are.  It's a way to try and maintain quality of education.  I've gone thru the process twice at the high school where I teach.  The accreditation team has the freedom to look into pretty much anything they want including lesson plans; text books; facilities; attendance; teacher certifications and even the transcripts of the teachers.

 

Indeed, I don't know of such a thing as "accreditation". I simply thought that education in US was more serious. From what you describe in your comment #18, it seems as anyone can start and run a college. It's not like that in Europe by a long shot. For example, in Sweden, there is no such thing as "accreditation". If degrees from one university didn't "pass" as equal at any other university, than the university giving out "unaccredited" degrees would be immediately shut down by the government. In fact, if any university in Sweden would give out degrees that would not be accepted by academia in the whole of Europe (and a bunch of other countries), then that university would got shut down. 

 

"The accreditation team has the freedom to look into pretty much anything they want including lesson plans; text books; facilities; attendance; teacher certifications and even the transcripts of the teachers."

 

Sounds like something you would do to a junior high. Is education in US really this bad? That there has to be "accreditation teams"? If a principal at a Swedish university would hire a teacher without the right credentials, or use "wrong" textbooks, they a.) wouldn't even be allowed to hold the courses in whatever subject to begin with and b.) would risk getting either jail or some really expensive "speeding tickets". And of course, the university (or at least the faculty) would have to be shut down and wouldn't be allowed to continue it's activity till "accredited" teachers and textbooks are found.

 

Regards


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