Mike Summers, on 05 Aug 2017 - 5:46 PM, said:
Goku said: Well they lied about who they were going to hire in order to get permission to build their Ark as well as maximize tax breaks.
Mike Said: You don't know this unless you can read minds. There are other explanations.
Perhaps the comment was in reference to the construction workers that would build the ARK? Or perhaps they changed their minds.
Mike said: I am sure you know the belief system of everyone that works for AE. Calling someone a liar is a bit rash I would think. At least my mom taught me that. She said it was dangerous to impute motive.
Moreover, would you expect the KKK to hire blacks & Jews to work in their front office and be their leaders?
AE told the town during the negotiation process when they were getting their permit that they would not discriminate employees based on religious beliefs. They lied.
Before the ark was built it was wideely known that AIG required its emplyees to be Christian.
Unless you can read minds, you don't know this to be the case. Would you expect me to say that people that believe in evo are liars? I have never called you a liar.
I think you believe evo is true.
Let's face it you come acoss as an adversary of AE and don't even feign neutrality. Few people are ever as bad as their enemies say they are.
Plain and simple. Any other explanation would be wildly far fetched.
Mike: This is called dichotomous reasoning. Either this or that when there can be any number of explanations. Any other explanation could be the truth! What happend to inocent until proven guilty? Instead of being objective, you take sides and AE is automatically guilty. Try to be a little more objective. Your bias is showing!
Mike Said: It's an American custom to take care of people. If you or I had an accident in any town in America, we would expect humane and congenial treatment. No matter where an accident happens on any of our streets most of us would think it unconionable to leave a person untreated on the side of the road whether they have insurance or not.
Moeover, could we not expect an individual's insurance to pay for their emergency treatrment? Is AE the one responsible for the accidents across the country? Perhaps we need a more equitable insurance program for Americans. Why should AE have to pay for Americas unfairly distributed insurance programs?
Once again you impute motive from a jaded cynical mind. It's been said that negotiation and compromise is the grease that oils the wheel of life. Even God says, "Come let us reason together..." Humans can an do need learn to work together. That is what is going on here. There is no need to jump to conclusions, impute motive and disrespect the process of neotiations.
Mike Said: All things being considered this may be an equitable compromise. On the other hand why is AE responsible for us as individuals having accidents and getting sick (something that happens all over the country). So, if you have an accident tomorrow are you going to think AE is responsible to reimburse you?
Goku said: I agree we need a better health care system, but the fact remains that AE itself places a strain on the local emergency services.
One of the great things about this country is that we can get on our interstate and go any place we wish without having to ask permission from the government. I personally have traveled though many states. Nobody is waiting at any state border to check if you have the rights to travel anywhere you choose. How is it that that AIG contols who comes to the ARK? They don't! We call it free choice.
Goku said: Imagine the town of Mayberry from the Andy Griffith Show. If a tourist location was set up right outside of town that attracted twice the number of tourists each day as the entire population of Mayberry, do you really think Andy and Barney would be able to address any and all police calls from both the town and the tourist attraction without hiring more people? Same with the local doctor?
No doubt they they would enlist the help of the state police. If you have medical insurance, insurance is inforce anywhere in the United states. An extra doctor would be suppored by a nationwide functional insurance program.
Goku said: Why should the town absorb the entire additional cost to the local emergency services when the giant influx is caused by AE?
Indeed why should any one "group" have to absorb the responsibility for others.
The responsibility of traveling to the Ark is individual. That's one of the costs of being a free country. Besides AE did agree to collect a tax fee. They just wanted to negotiate how much it would be.
Mike said: A ticket tax does seem like a reasonable measure. I don't think it is particularly cynical to ascribe with high likelihood that AE specifically tried to dodge this tax when they changed their for-profit status to non-profit the very next day after this new tax was announced.
A ticket tax is one solution of many. I think the best solution would be for everyone to be covered under a national insurance policy like the other civilized nations have for their people.
Goku said: In addition the fact that they switched back to for-profit status indicates to me that the original change was done hastily before they fully vetted the consequences, making it less likely that it was a miraculous coincidence.
So you inor the fact that the city didn't realize that they were going to have an increas on public services and need a tax to pay for it?
Boy you are cynical, for such a young man.
Moreover, AIG was probably following the advice of their lawyers. It was tit for tat! Who knows wheter the officials of the town cconsulted with AIG and explained their plight or just made a unilateral decision without input from AIG. AIG responded in kind!
Goku said: Another way to look at it would be this: AE being in that town's boarders uses the emergency services, so why should AE be exempt from paying their fair share?
This problem could also be solved by a natoinal insurance program where everyone would be covered where ever
Mike Said: Once again we are treated to your dillusion of there actually being something called subjective morality (an oxymoron). The proof they say is in the eating of the pudding. Behavior is indicative of cognition.
Goku said: How is subjective morality an oxymoron? That's like saying having a favorite color is an oxymoron.
I guess I have a different point of view. All 20 or so million colors are my favorites. Morality is morality from the individuals point of view. It is not subjective from the individual applying it. In my mind
God has the last say on what is moral. In your mind I would guess you have the last say?
Goku: In any case this doesn't address the fact that ToE is descriptive, not prescriptive. IOW ToE is making no claims about morality or how things ought to be.
There you go again personifying the theory of evolution. The theory of evolution is a theory created by an intelligent being. I never said it made any claims about morality. Humans do that! But you do claim that evolution created us so somehow (I admit I don't know how) it is responsible for all we are. Maybe you can explain how that works? Right now evo seems so magical. It's responsible for everything and it's not responsible for anything! Sounds like a bunch of double talk!
Mike said: This amagalmation is your doinng. There is no universal mind to control populations--a term of convience not function. All of us are individuals and merit treatment as such! That's why I don't claim to "belong" to a "group"!
No one ever said that belonging to a group means there is a universal mind controlling that group.
They do that in a different way such as believing you and the group are one!
Part of what I mean is that the group can not own us. Nor are we somehow responsible for what the other individuals associated to the group may do or say.
Goku: You have a very twisted conception of what a group is.
Or you do. So explain to me what a group is and then what an individual is?
Goku said: Besides, you are in at least one group: the members of EFF. Do you feel that there is a universal mind controlling everyone on EFF?
No I don't. In the sense I belong to the EFF group I share many of the same beliefs others that associate themselves with the group share. But you belong" to EFF too! Don't you? I wouldn't claim you share my beliefs! Would you? Group is a term that is widely misused.
Goku said: In any case you asked how it is possible to be against AE's actions while simultaneously accepting ToE (survival of the fittest). As stated before ToE is descriptive, not prescriptive, yet I have also noticed that it is often more insightful to view fitness through the lens of group fitness rather than solely individual fitness.
"I am not saying what I am saying!" LOL
There is no method to do what you say because we are all individuals. Our individuality is paramount. Our body's condition determines how well we are as an individual. There is no group mind or body. A group is a concept or anlogy not an entity.
Goku said: As a social species we rely on trust to develop and mature bonds, and thus increase group fitness.
Double talk. There is no group fitness as we are individuals.
Actions which erode that trust can have negative consequences on such fitness, and AE's actions certainly have the potential to erode trust.
It takes two to tnago. AE is not an entity. It probably was an individual (Ham) that made the final decisions. The town's spokemen could be guilty of the same erosion of trust. You need to try and be more objective. Why not want the best for everyone instead of your constant adversary position of us vs them--good guy bad guy?