Jump to content


Photo

Polystrate Trees


  • Please log in to reply
28 replies to this topic

#21 StormanNorman

StormanNorman

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,135 posts
  • Age: 46
  • no affiliation
  • Agnostic
  • Pittsburgh, PA

Posted 25 July 2015 - 10:54 AM

 

Yes, but you should be. Just like you should be doing back flips over the monumental unconformity in the Alps, a point you never bothered to answer.

 

(definition: "An unconformity typically results when earlier sediments are eroded before being buried under sediments deposited during a later episode of sedimentation. In general, the term unconformity describes any break in the sedimentary geologic record.") http://bio-geo-terms...conformity.html

 

Aug09262.jpg

 

There are many of these in the world that, pardon the expression, back flips geologic evolution theory into a tangled mess.

 

Do you happen to have the geological map around these mountains, Cal?



#22 gilbo12345

gilbo12345

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,006 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Completed BBiotech (Honours)

    Currently studying Masters of Teaching.

    Enjoys games of tactics and strategy.
  • Age: 25
  • (private)
  • Creationist
  • Australia

Posted 25 July 2015 - 12:59 PM

I don't think this is necessarily true, gilbo.  Also, I believe that many of the timelines applied to the layers come from one of your favorite methods .... radiometric dating.

 

Uniformitarianism...

This is what I was taught at uni and high school, there was no mention that layers could potentially form rapidly. This may have been an isolated case or could be the norm, regardless it is my observation.

Well initially the times were given based on evolutionist assumptions, (before the radiometric dating method). However read post #16 and see this method falsified ;)



#23 Calypsis4

Calypsis4

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3,429 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Retired science teacher with 26 yrs of experience: Biology, physical sciences, & physics.
  • Age: 64
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Midwest, USA

Posted 25 July 2015 - 01:06 PM

Norm:

 

Take your pick:

 

http://search.aol.co...al unconformity

 

 

Below is a picture of a mountain in the French Alps:

n72fold.gif

 

How in the world do rocks fold and bend...unless they undergo volcanic activity, in other words, catastrophic conditions? That exactly what the flood of Noah brought to the world...a flood of such proportions and power it literally destroyed/submerged some (or parts of) continents and later brought up others.

 

You've got a lot more than the Alps to be concerned about. Just read the bottom paragraph which lists just SOME of the unconformities in the world.

 

http://bio-geo-terms...conformity.html

 

...where it begins with: "

[links: images: formationsThe Great Unconformity, in the Grand Canyon, Colorado River,...



#24 Calypsis4

Calypsis4

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3,429 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Retired science teacher with 26 yrs of experience: Biology, physical sciences, & physics.
  • Age: 64
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Midwest, USA

Posted 25 July 2015 - 01:14 PM

Gilbo:

 

Sigh... It is YOU who has created a strawman.. I never said that geologists said that trees need to be above ground to fossilize.. I said that if you assume that the layers, the tree runs trough, are "millions" of years old then you must also assume that the tree stood in that position for the amount of time it took for those layers for form...

 

 

Yeah....(chew, chew, gulp,....sip,...chew, chew, wipe, wipe) uh, yeah! :kaffeetrinker:  Makes such glaringly common sense that only a person who is educated to NOT understand it will fail to see it. Once a person accepts the lie (evolution) then all things contrary to common sense become acceptable.



#25 Paul79

Paul79

    Junior Member

  • Advanced member
  • PipPip
  • 67 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Age: 40
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Colorado Springs, Colorado

Posted 25 July 2015 - 01:57 PM

How in the world do rocks fold and bend

 

Only when they are still wet. Hard rock with millions of years between layers will fracture and break (and definitely not fold) and there is no mechanism to reheat rock layers and contort them.

 

Here is a picture of the BC, Canada near the Sullivan River:

 

hydroplateoverview-folded_mountain.jpg

 

 

 

http://www.creations...eOverview4.html

 

Major Mountain Ranges. How did mountain ranges form? Major mountains are often crumpled like an accordion. [See Figure 49.] Satellite photos of mountain ranges show that some resemble throw rugs that have been pushed against walls. But what force could push a long, thick slab of rock and cause it to buckle and sometimes fold back on itself? Besides, any force large enough to overcome the gigantic frictional locking at the base of the slab, would crush the end being pushed before movement could even begin. Therefore, a mountain would not form. [See “Can Overthrusts Occur? Can Mountains Buckle?” on page 566.]

We can see, especially in mountains and road cuts, thinly layered rocks folded like doubled-over phone books. Other “bent” rocks are small enough to hold in one’s hand. The tiny, crystalline grains in those folds are not stretched. So, how could brittle rock, showing little evidence of heating or cracking, fold? Rocks are strong in compression but weak in tension, so their stretched outer surfaces should have easily fractured. Bent sedimentary rocks, found worldwide, often look as if they had the consistency of putty when they were compressed. They must have been squeezed and folded soon after the sediments were laid down, but before they hardened chemically. What squeezed and folded them?



#26 Calypsis4

Calypsis4

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3,429 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Retired science teacher with 26 yrs of experience: Biology, physical sciences, & physics.
  • Age: 64
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Midwest, USA

Posted 26 July 2015 - 05:35 AM

Only when they are still wet. Hard rock with millions of years between layers will fracture and break (and definitely not fold) and there is no mechanism to reheat rock layers and contort them.

 

Here is a picture of the BC, Canada near the Sullivan River:

 

hydroplateoverview-folded_mountain.jpg

 

 

 

http://www.creations...eOverview4.html

 

Major Mountain Ranges. How did mountain ranges form? Major mountains are often crumpled like an accordion. [See Figure 49.] Satellite photos of mountain ranges show that some resemble throw rugs that have been pushed against walls. But what force could push a long, thick slab of rock and cause it to buckle and sometimes fold back on itself? Besides, any force large enough to overcome the gigantic frictional locking at the base of the slab, would crush the end being pushed before movement could even begin. Therefore, a mountain would not form. [See “Can Overthrusts Occur? Can Mountains Buckle?” on page 566.]

We can see, especially in mountains and road cuts, thinly layered rocks folded like doubled-over phone books. Other “bent” rocks are small enough to hold in one’s hand. The tiny, crystalline grains in those folds are not stretched. So, how could brittle rock, showing little evidence of heating or cracking, fold? Rocks are strong in compression but weak in tension, so their stretched outer surfaces should have easily fractured. Bent sedimentary rocks, found worldwide, often look as if they had the consistency of putty when they were compressed. They must have been squeezed and folded soon after the sediments were laid down, but before they hardened chemically. What squeezed and folded them?

 

 Very good, Paul. My question, however, was a rhetorical one. I knew the answer but I was posing it in the attempt to get the neo's to do some serious thinking for this phenomena has happened all over the world and the rocks that show that characteristic did not get that way by slow and gradual processes!



#27 StormanNorman

StormanNorman

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,135 posts
  • Age: 46
  • no affiliation
  • Agnostic
  • Pittsburgh, PA

Posted 26 July 2015 - 01:02 PM

Uniformitarianism...

This is what I was taught at uni and high school, there was no mention that layers could potentially form rapidly. This may have been an isolated case or could be the norm, regardless it is my observation.

 

Well, I can't speak as to what you were taught in school, but there is absolutely no reason to think that all geological processes that affect the stratigraphy do so at the same rate.  Some processes like tectonic plate movements, glaciers, and (in some cases) wind and water erosion can take a very long time; however, other geologic events such as high-magnitude earthquakes can alter the stratigraphy in a matter of seconds.  In terms of rapid burials, mud slides, fast floods, and volcanic eruptions can bury the landscape very quickly.  Case in point, have you every heard of the lost Roman city of Pompeii?  When Mt. Vesuvius erupted in 79 AD, the city was buried under 25 meters of ash which researchers believed rained down on the city during a six hour period.  And the city remained "lost" for the next 1,500 years. 

 

 

Well initially the times were given based on evolutionist assumptions, (before the radiometric dating method). However read post #16 and see this method falsified ;)

 

 

Wow.  Then I expect to see you become famous very shortly. B)



#28 gilbo12345

gilbo12345

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,006 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Completed BBiotech (Honours)

    Currently studying Masters of Teaching.

    Enjoys games of tactics and strategy.
  • Age: 25
  • (private)
  • Creationist
  • Australia

Posted 27 July 2015 - 03:04 AM

Wow.  Then I expect to see you become famous very shortly. B)

 

Lol I wish ;)

Nah, considering the history of science, I'd be ignored and black-listed ;) (Happened to Mendel, and others)

But seriously did you check out post #16?

 

 

 

Well, I can't speak as to what you were taught in school, but there is absolutely no reason to think that all geological processes that affect the stratigraphy do so at the same rate.  Some processes like tectonic plate movements, glaciers, and (in some cases) wind and water erosion can take a very long time; however, other geologic events such as high-magnitude earthquakes can alter the stratigraphy in a matter of seconds.  In terms of rapid burials, mud slides, fast floods, and volcanic eruptions can bury the landscape very quickly.  Case in point, have you every heard of the lost Roman city of Pompeii?  When Mt. Vesuvius erupted in 79 AD, the city was buried under 25 meters of ash which researchers believed rained down on the city during a six hour period.  And the city remained "lost" for the next 1,500 years. 

 

I'm no geologist so perhaps I was given the "abbreviated" version in school, and it was mentioned in the evolution topic at uni (yes I had to take lectures on evolution...)



#29 Dr. Derek P. Blake

Dr. Derek P. Blake

    Junior Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 34 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Redruth, Cornwall, UK
  • Interests:Love science, have a Ph.D and degrees in cosmology and astronomy. Fanatical about photography, an avid landscape painter, love to do crafts, spend most of my time writing which I love to do. I play guitar and drums.
  • Age: 71
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Redruth, Cornwall, UK.

Posted 27 March 2016 - 03:24 PM

A similar geological feature is the clastic extrusion, instead of there being trees trapped in the sediments, clastic extrusions are solidified sediments that were, when wet (mud) forced up through the already dry and compacted sedimentary layers above.

Soft-Rock-2.jpg
The picture above shows a classic clastic extrusion.  These are formed after the flood when the upped layers of sediment dry and start to harden and trap moisture in the lower layers.  As the layers dry and compact they exert more and more pressure on the levels below and start to compress the semi-liquid layers below, until the mud is forced up through any weakness in the upper layers.  The mud rises, but does not always reach the surface, so gets super compressed and becomes harder than the upper sedimentary layers (mostly sandstones).  Later erosion removes the surrounding layers and leaves the tower seen in the picture.
 
This is one of the sure signs of a great flood, as this seems to be the only conditions after which which these extrusions can be formed, unless anyone has an alternative explanation.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users