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Darwin's Experiments


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#161 nandoschicken

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 09:45 AM

 

So Relativity, sr and gr via different mechanisms (Speed vs. Gravity), can: Dilate/Bend/Warp...TIME ??

 

Well slight misunderstanding. Relativity is a description of what the theories demonstrate, that space and time are relative things. They are, and yes time can dilate, and space can warp. If you travel through space at the maximum speed possible (the speed of light), all of your movement is in one direction - through space. So no time will pass for you. If you are travelling slower, more time will pass. And yes, this effect is measurable.

 

 

What on Earth?  How could someone write a "Scientific Theory"..... WITHOUT experimental evidence, when Scientific Theories are the Consequent/ "RESULT" of Validated Experiments, pray tell??  :get_a_clue:

 

The fact that would even ask this question shows me straight away that you probably do not know what Darwin wrote, and your probably not interested in knowing what it is he did write.


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#162 Enoch 2021

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 01:43 PM

Well slight misunderstanding. Relativity is a description of what the theories demonstrate, that space and time are relative things. 

 

I suppose that's why they're called the Special and General theories of "Relativity"? Profound!!   :kaffeetrinker:

 

Where do they "Demonstrate"...on a Calculator?

 

 

How on Earth can Mathematics/Formulas/Equations be "Scientific Theories" pray tell?  Scientific Theories "EXPLAIN"....The HOW and all Math can do is "describe" The What.

 

So please 'explain' don't 'describe'...?

 

 

They are, and yes time can dilate, and space can warp.

 

 

Yes, and Anna Nicole married for Love and Pol Pot was her Florist.

 

 

If you travel through space at the maximum speed possible (the speed of light), all of your movement is in one direction - through space. So no time will pass for you. If you are travelling slower, more time will pass. And yes, this effect is measurable.

 

 

More like "if you travel through a shroom-induced coma....."

 

 

 

 

nandoschicken: The fact that he could write this without experimental evidence.

 

 

Enoch 2021: What on Earth?  How could someone write a "Scientific Theory"..... WITHOUT experimental evidence, when Scientific Theories are the Consequent/ "RESULT" of Validated Experiments, pray tell??   :get_a_clue:

 

A Scientific Theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing. {Emphasis Mine} 
http://chemistry.abo...a/lawtheory.htm

A Scientific Theory consists of one or more hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing. {Emphasis Mine} 
http://www.fromquark...-theory-or-law/

A Scientific Theory represents an hypothesis, or a group of related hypotheses, which has been CONFIRMED through REPEATED EXPERIMENTAL TESTS. {Emphasis Mine} 
http://teacher.nsrl..../appendixe.html

 

 

 

nandoschicken:  The fact that would even ask this question shows me straight away that you probably do not know what Darwin wrote, and your probably not interested in knowing what it is he did write.

 

 

:cry:

 

 

Are you some kinda Comedian ?



#163 gilbo12345

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 04:18 PM

The fact that would even ask this question shows me straight away that you probably do not know what Darwin wrote, and your probably not interested in knowing what it is he did write.

Just because Darwin wrote 'my theory' doesn't make his idea a scientific theory. If you want to get technical, a theory is merely an unsupported idea... A scientific theory is the likes of Germ Theory, etc.

Now as Enoch has demonstrated via quotes and reasoning, a scientific theory is built on supported hypotheses, hypotheses supported by experimental evidence.

Darwin writing what he believed doesn't make it a fact, nor does it make his ideas scientific.

Do you understand? The fact that Darwin didn't test his ideas means they were an supported hypothesis. Which (sadly) people believed to be true, and allow such convictions to colour how they look at life and evidence.

#164 gilbo12345

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 04:47 PM

...........Darwins work is a written thesis on his theory. At the time it lacked experimental evidence, this is no longer the case. This is also the case for Einstein's theories of relativity. The fact that he could write this without experimental evidence (actually not, since Darwin amply demonstrates his idea through examples of domesticated animals), is irrelevant, because he was correct.

:cry:


All Darwin did was write his ideas, his beliefs. Nothing more. Do you consider this to be scientific?

Einstein's work was mathematical which is a completely different 'kettle of fish' to Biology.

So domesticated animals were able to"evolve" into different organisms? A cow into a pig?

Darwin observed the small changes within each species, (different breeds), and he ASSUMED that these changes were capable of adding up.

However domestic animals demonstrate limits to change, something Darwin may have noticed IF he had any form of scientific training.

A pig farmer cannot grow a pig as big as a house. Why?

Its due to trade-offs. When something changes it causes a benefit and a deficit. When this deficit is too much to bear, the change is limited.

For example, my work in pork production taught me a few things about domestic animals, and breeding, the farm I worked at provided breeding stock to other farms across the world.

Now pigs can have angled or straight hocks. More angle leads to better jumping, thus easier breeding. However the trade off for this benefit was that due to the amount of angle the leg had less structural integrity and was more prone to becoming lame.

Straight legs were tougher, but the animals jumping ability was not great, leading to a more difficult time in breeding.

This is just one example of how trade-offs limit change, something Darwin never considered when he merely ASSUMED that changes can add up over time.

#165 cheeseburger

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 06:01 PM

If the benefits of phenotype change can outweigh the deficits in the shorter term (i.e. microevolution) why couldn't the benefits sometimes outweigh the deficits in the longer term?

#166 gilbo12345

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 08:32 PM

If the benefits of phenotype change can outweigh the deficits in the shorter term (i.e. microevolution) why couldn't the benefits sometimes outweigh the deficits in the longer term?

I think you have misunderstood the concept.

Trade-offs have nothing to do with short term and long term, in fact I never mentioned these.

The issue is that the larger the change the larger the deficiency, often a low amount of deficiency can be dealt with by the organism, thus allowing some variation. However with larger deficiencies the organism cannot cope and thus limits the scale of the change that can occur.

In previous threads I have mentioned the Persian breed of cat as a good example of an organism that has approached (or even passed) the natural limits imposed by trade-offs.

The Persian cat has been breed for a small button nose and a squashed face. The results of this has lead to many health issues, including breathing difficulties. Its due to these health issues that I believe the limits via trade-offs have been passed.


Now this leads to my argument against evolution based on these concepts, however to go into such here would derail the topic. Just know that there is an inherent limit to change.




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