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Is The Non-Physical World Real?


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#1 Mike Summers

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Posted 30 January 2016 - 04:15 PM

I guess there is a certan aounnt of irony in making the claim that the non physical world does not exxist. Why? Because the unreal world (excuse the paradox ) is what we validate the "real" physical world with.

And yet existent beings calling themselves atheists (the arbiters of existence) use "it" all the time to claim the non physical does not exist. They change the name of "it" to "supernatural" but as Shakespeare said, "A rose by any other name..." I am talking about the lowly "thought" infomation's "smallest" componet of our mental life. Most of us use these non physicals to think. Don't alleged athists think? LOL

What is "its" (the thought's) physics, weight, dimension, color, sound, longevity etc.? Code is the thought's reprentative in the physical world. As individuals we can communicate with ourselves with pure information in our own mind, but we don't have the ability to communicate with others without using code. This is done by a learning process starting early in our life (as children). We agree with others for specific code to repesent and evoke the information stored in our minds. It allows us a private mental life but the ability to share it also.

Like everything God designed the process is exremely efficient and versatile.

Is our mental state real? If not how can we use it to validate the physical world?



#2 MarkForbes

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 06:59 PM

Is information, figures, data, etc. for real? Yes, and they are aphysical. 

 

One needs to define "physical" as well. 



#3 Mike Summers

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 08:55 PM

Thanks for a response, Mark. I thought this was going to be another one of my duds as an OP. LOL In a sense I am surppprised someone came forth. :)

google defintion excerpt for the word physical:

of or relating to things perceived through the senses as opposed to the mind; tangible or concrete.
"pleasant physical environments"

synonyms: material, concrete, tangible, palpable, solid, substantial, real, actual, visible
"the physical universe"

There is no physics to information only its reppresentative code.

Confusng data, code, etc. the physical with information came down from inforattion theorist Claude Shannon. He made popula the "bit" as the sallest unit of information. But, a bit is not information only a physial variable assigned to represent information by intellegent minds. The code (word) "thought" represents the mental state's (spiritual) smallest unit of information.

Unfortunately, Shannon ammbigously defined code and information as per his seminole paper on information theory.

What follows is an example I use to explan the difference between code and information. My example:

6, VI, 8-2, 8-2=6, eighteen devided by three equalls six. Shannon would say all my examples contained different amounts of information with the last example having the highest aount of information. The average person would conclude all my examples would result in the same amount of inforation namely six (6).

Shannon's conclusion makes sense if you realize that he was thinking about saving space on a telephone line. He was concerned with a limited amount of space and so would be in favor of using the most efficient way of representing information with the smallest amount of code possible. Humans, as far I know, do not run out of memory nor get out of memory errors unless their brain is mal-functioning.

Aristotle's law of non-contradiction indicates that information and code are not the same things. The code you see on this page evokes information you agreed to asscoate to it in a prior lerning situation. Todays information theories seem to ignore the learning process as a major compneent of their theories. .


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#4 Enoch 2021

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 12:47 PM

Is information, figures, data, etc. for real? Yes, and they are aphysical. 

 

One needs to define "physical" as well. 

 

Physical: that which has Dimensionality, which then can be reckoned by a single/any combination of the 5 senses.

 

Figures and Data are not " INFORMATION "...they can be the Antecedent to Information (Consequent).

 

regards



#5 popoi

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 12:25 PM

Is information, figures, data, etc. for real? Yes, and they are aphysical. 
 
One needs to define "physical" as well.

What is the reality of information apart from the medium in which it is stored?

#6 Mike Summers

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 12:55 PM

Popoi



What is the reality of information apart from the medium in which it is stored?

That's the point. They are two separate concepts. There is no information stored in a book--only code. If you don't have the mental ability to process (read) then you will not evoke the proper information that has been associated by agreement to said code. For example if a book is Witten in say German code and you don't know that code to information system then you will not be able to evoke the code to information patterns. Observe that "raw" information is the same in all human beings.

Code is not a storage medium! It's more like a memory aid. How do you propose we get the information allegedly stored in code out of code--use a can opener? LOL

Information is a non-physical a function of being conscious. There is no physics to information.


As Enoch has pointed out, the five senses are traansducers. They are used by our body to pereceive our physical ennvironent to our non-physical mind.

For example you may not realize that sound is not a function of the physical world. In the physical world we have "sound" pressure deviations. As they say, If a tree falls in the forest will there be any sound? The answer is no. Sound only exists in the mental world (spiritual).

When the tree falls it diplace the atmosphere causing a pressure deviation. Our ear detects the pressure deviation and our mind uses it to create sound a mental concious state.

Here is an easy experiment to do with yourself.. Say something to yourself without making it verbal. If you do that you will have to use the non physical state and use pure inforation. Can you detect any physics? Still don't believe the mental exists and creates the physical world (quantum physics)? Then, close your eyes and see what happens. lol When you stop observing things they seem to cease to exist.


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#7 popoi

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 02:10 PM

Observe that "raw" information is the same in all human beings.

How can this be observed? What is that information outside of human beings?

Information is a non-physical a function of being conscious. There is no physics to information.

All of the conscious beings I know have quite a lot of physics to them. If there's not physics to information, what is there to it?

#8 Mike Summers

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 02:59 PM


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#9 Mike Summers

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 04:17 PM

Popoi

They have done autopsies on dead people looking for signs of information in their brains. They have never found It. Presumably if someone was murdered for example the person may have observed the person that was about to murder them. No dice. Without being alive and conscious there is no information. I invite you to give me some phyisics of information? Give me how much it weighs, its dimensions etc.

Mental soures of causation are invisibe.

The physical size of code has been steadly reduced over the years. The greatest density of storage or code is still DNA.

In the 60s for example a musical record was 12 inches wide. On both sides it stored about 40 minutes of analog code (commonly called music ).
Today thanks to the phenomena called LSI thousands of songs can be stored on a chip. However it still takes the human mind to turn code into music.

For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

And it's the same with you. The Code on my screen is evidence to me that you caused it by your invisible mental activity. The effect of Alexander G. Bell's mental activity is the telephone. The effect of Darwin's mental activity is his book Origin of Species. The thoughts that caused this stuff are nowheree to be found physically. All that is visible is code. Code is an effect not a cause.



#10 Mike Summers

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 09:00 PM

Have you ever noticed every area of specialization has its own sub-lingo. In the printing buisness there is the phrase to scum a plate and offsett as oppoed to letter press.

Sometimes the sub-lingo has its own acronyms which those not of the vocation will not unerstand. In TV production there is the acronym SEG and 'green screen' which when I started in television was called chroma key or blue screen. I suspect it was changed because lots of people have blue eyes something you will understnd if you have a rudimentary association with the industry. The HVAC-R acronym stands for Heating Ventilating air conditioning and refrigeration. The R was fairly recently added with some resistance because some felt refrigeration deserved its own group. In the past there was a rivalry going on between the HVAC and the refrigeration folks because they believed they deserved their own group.

In the audio recording vocation, technical specifications are given in acronymms such as DB's (decibels)--a measure of sound pressure deviation. In the area of automotive repair there is an ancronym used to to let another mechanic know that the disadvantges of working on a vehicle may outweigh the advantages. Code OTJ=Old Tired Junk. lol

In the psyychology field there is the acronym, DC (dificult customer) signalling a clients non-compliannce. A client is though to have pathology when they are meth heads. One theory claims depletion of neuro transmitters causes depression. The problem so far is that no one has been able to determine whether depression is caused by by neuro transmitter depletion or if depression causes neuro transmitter depletion. It's a in knd of a chicken or egg scenario. LOL

I believe the five sesnses are part of an interface between the physical world and the mental (spirit) world. They are transducers--device that change one kind of energy into another. For example an electric windmil changes kinetic energy into electricl energy.

My pet theory of communication as opposd to the status quo says code is neeeded as information can not transmigrate the physical realm. People have to use code to communicate. They can only comunicat with themselves internlly via pure information.

Most people believe code stores meaning hence the statement, the information stored in a book. However the Rosetta Stone, Pavlov's experiments and the presence of numerous language code systems indicates while differnt code can be used to access information, basic information is the same in all people.

The bible says all the deception people are
subjected to is a part of an elaborate deception a fallen angel has fosterd off on mankind! I am so happy his deception is beginning to unravle. I think its so cool all of us have a part in undoing his deception. Can you imagine what our world will be like when all of us accept responsibility and stop playing the role of victim! We can use our creativity to create things for everyone to enojoy. Wow!






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