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#1 mike the wiz

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Posted 14 November 2016 - 03:36 PM

Hell isn't a subject I talk about all that much. I would say on this issue, my attitude is more responsive, I will talk about it if someone first mentions it to me. I heard Wibble mention it in another thread so thought I would mention some things about hell that you may not know, or may not know about what Christians think about it.

 

1. A lot of genuine Christians don't want hell to exist. 

 

A lot of the time Christians don't want hell to exist and secretly hope that God was speaking about hell as a deterrent, or that there is some kind of exception to the rule. I for one secretly hope that God's bark is worse than His bite. ;)

 

2. Not all people go to hell if they are not Christians, necessarily.

 

The bible doesn't actually say as far as I know, that all people that are not Christian are going to hell. It just says those who reject Christ and don't believe in Him. To what extent this, "rejection" is in someone's heart, quite literally, God only knows. It's a sensible reason to never feel the urge or act on the urge to say, "you are going to hell". THAT is a dangerous game! Did you know the bible teaches a proverb that you place your own self in danger of judgement if you do such a thing! (bet you didn't know that, Christians!)

 

3. I/we can't stop anyone from going to hell. 

 

Don't shoot the messenger. I don't WANT to suggest you are going to hell. I also don't want you to fall off a cliff but if you do, I can't suspend gravity. I would if I could, I promise.

 

In other words, people get offended and think along these lines; "how can you think people are going to hell?" Then they reject you and are prejudiced towards you because you are a Christian that accepts what the bible teaches. In fact it is fundamentally important to remember that as Christians we have no power over God, or what He says. We can only honestly report what He has said. Quite literally, if you really are going to hell, to me personally that is a miserable thought, for I have no power to stop it whatsoever.

 

CONCLUSION: I don't want hell to exist but I won't call God a liar. It seems Christ clearly taught about hell, that it's a real place to be avoided. But I don't think faith in Christ, if only resting upon the foundation of a fear of hell solely, as a reason to believe, is a wise or lasting foundation. People who only believe in God out of religious fear will not have a strong faith, IMHO, and may only have a kind of religion.



#2 cheeseburger

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Posted 14 November 2016 - 06:39 PM

Matthew mentions hell about fifteen times, Mark and Luke a couple times each, John not at all. Paul, in his letters, never mentions hell although he refers to wrath and condemnation.

#3 mike the wiz

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Posted 15 November 2016 - 03:10 AM

I think logically it doesn't matter how much Jesus mentions hell, be it a few times or a hundred times. Really it only takes Him saying it once as enough for genuine Christians to accept it's existence. Obviously we see the gospels as coming directly from God.

 

If I were to say that I had a conversation with you for two hours and I only mentioned that I would buy you a drink once out of all of those words we exchanged, if I am a person of my word then you could count on getting a free drink.

 

To take God to not be a person that is true to His word, is the height of foolishness.

 

Now don't jump to conclusions such as, "so you DO think I'm going to hell!!!"...all I'm saying is, I can't see the amount it is mentioned as being all that relevant, personally, but I appreciate what you are saying if you are saying that perhaps if it isn't mentioned all that much, it might indicate less importance. I suppose you could argue that..I'll leave that one up to you to decide.



#4 Fjuri

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Posted 15 November 2016 - 11:57 AM

Matthew mentions hell about fifteen times, Mark and Luke a couple times each, John not at all. Paul, in his letters, never mentions hell although he refers to wrath and condemnation.

The Yews also don't belief in hell.

 

Hell isn't a subject I talk about all that much. I would say on this issue, my attitude is more responsive, I will talk about it if someone first mentions it to me. I heard Wibble mention it in another thread so thought I would mention some things about hell that you may not know, or may not know about what Christians think about it.

 

1. A lot of genuine Christians don't want hell to exist. 

 

A lot of the time Christians don't want hell to exist and secretly hope that God was speaking about hell as a deterrent, or that there is some kind of exception to the rule. I for one secretly hope that God's bark is worse than His bite. ;)

If the old testament is any sort of representation I would imagine God's bite to be quiet brutal...  ;)

 

2. Not all people go to hell if they are not Christians, necessarily.

 

The bible doesn't actually say as far as I know, that all people that are not Christian are going to hell. It just says those who reject Christ and don't believe in Him. To what extent this, "rejection" is in someone's heart, quite literally, God only knows. It's a sensible reason to never feel the urge or act on the urge to say, "you are going to hell". THAT is a dangerous game! Did you know the bible teaches a proverb that you place your own self in danger of judgement if you do such a thing! (bet you didn't know that, Christians!)

Would you kindly provide with a verse for that statement?

Thanks  :)



#5 mike the wiz

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Posted 16 November 2016 - 03:36 AM

 

 

Fjuri: The Yews also don't belief in hell.

 

Perhaps their thinking is a little wooden. :D

 

 

Fjuri: Would you kindly provide with a verse for that statement?

Thanks   :)

 

I was hoping nobody would ask me that. ;) I don't think the verse I refer to refers directly to hell but judging people, and for the life of me I can't remember where in the bible it is, for I can't remember chapter and verse like some people tend to. But I'll try and find the verse in my bible, and have a fish for it later.

 

But another example of that verse you may have heard of, is the parable Jesus gives of two people. One person goes to pray, and so does another, the first person seeing the other person says, "Oh God, thankyou for not making me like this sinner." And walks away from the temple/church. The other person is genuinely repentant and says something like this; " Oh God I am not worthy, all the bad things I have done, I don't deserve anything, forgive me."

 

Jesus says the second person goes away and is right with God/has peace with God. So it's about realising that we are all ultimately in the same boat in that we all have a sin-problem. To treat salvation as a ticket to say we are better, and the others can, "burn in hell" is a simplistic and immature version of the message.

 

What I'm saying is Fjuri, I have heard, "Christians" in debate, say the most unthinkable things, unthinkable to me, because their attitude is so contradictory to what Jesus taught and was like. One person said in debate, "dress for the heat" to an atheist woman I used to debate/converse with. I couldn't believe he said that. Basically his attitude is, "hahaha, I believe in Jesus and you are going to burn."

 

I remember I thought that incredible. Very mean-spirited, not the attitude I know that God gives. That someone would ENJOY someone else going to hell just because they are an atheist, as though that person isn't a human or something....wow! To USE hell like that, as a, "me right, YOU WRONG" ticket to boast.

 

(if it helps, I was saying the same message in 2011, I hope that shows consistency, in message #34 of that topic, I mention the same parable, too. While my thinking can change over the years, my thoughts about this issue seem to have remained the same, for I only found this topic just now, and couldn't even remember I had written it;

 

http://www.evcforum....rol=msg&t=15449



#6 Sleepy House

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 04:41 PM

Lamentations 3:31

For the lord will not cast off forever.




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