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Scientist Refused Access To Grand Canyon


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#21 what if

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 10:46 AM

I don't see any problem either.
 
Regardless of who he works for, Snelling is a degreed biologist.  I can think of no legitimate academic or scientific reason he shouldn't be allowed to collect a few dozen fist size rocks.
 
(BTW, what if, it looks like NAIG is back.  When I searched "Snelling creationist," their website was the first hit and the link worked.)

 
If he wasn't allowed to take samples because he personally believes in YEC I agree that is wrong, but I am curious as to what the proposal looked like. If the proposal was something like 'let me take samples to show that they are thousands of years old', then I could see why they would reject his proposal as pseudo-science.
 
Considering that he is a geologist and has successfully taken samples before, it seems unlikely that he would have worded his proposal like that. However, if the Park Services had reasonable suspicion that that was his intention even if he didn't explicitly write it I can see why they would still refuse him access.

there is only one valid reason to refuse this man access to the rocks, and that is if he attempts to use invalid methods in his research.
snelling is perfectly willing to lay all of his research on the table for all to see.

you know, if i was so positive that snellings work would be outright refuted, i wouldn't have any problem at all in letting him have access to said rocks.

refusing snelling access is just outright wrong . . . period.

#22 Goku

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 12:13 PM

there is only one valid reason to refuse this man access to the rocks, and that is if he attempts to use invalid methods in his research.

snelling is perfectly willing to lay all of his research on the table for all to see.

you know, if i was so positive that snellings work would be outright refuted, i wouldn't have any problem at all in letting him have access to said rocks.

refusing snelling access is just outright wrong . . . period.

 

Ideally, yes, if you're positive that Snelling's work would be fractally refuted there's no harm in letting him do his work. Assuming he doesn't lie about his work which some creationists do.

 

However, I can see the point in not allowing someone access if their work is clearly pseudo-science because you don't want to open the flood gates to every fringe pseudo-science idea out there; it would just be a waste of resources and fuel pseudo-science ideas. I suspect this is where the Park is coming from, but with the little information we have (and only one side, the creationist side) it is impossible to say what is really going on or whether the Park is justified in their decision. That they sued means they think they have a real legal case on their hands; I doubt AIG would sue unless they felt they had a real shot at winning.



#23 what if

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 01:32 PM

Ideally, yes, if you're positive that Snelling's work would be fractally refuted there's no harm in letting him do his work. Assuming he doesn't lie about his work which some creationists do.
 
However, I can see the point in not allowing someone access if their work is clearly pseudo-science because you don't want to open the flood gates to every fringe pseudo-science idea out there; it would just be a waste of resources and fuel pseudo-science ideas. I suspect this is where the Park is coming from, but with the little information we have (and only one side, the creationist side) it is impossible to say what is really going on or whether the Park is justified in their decision. That they sued means they think they have a real legal case on their hands; I doubt AIG would sue unless they felt they had a real shot at winning.

there IS NO REASON to deny this man access, none whatsoever.
he is WILLING to lay his research in front of EVERYONE.
correction, there IS a reason, fear.

#24 Goku

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 02:46 PM

there IS NO REASON to deny this man access, none whatsoever.

he is WILLING to lay his research in front of EVERYONE.
correction, there IS a reason, fear.

 

If his research is valid and his intentions are honest then I agree he should be allowed access. I guess what I am saying is that I reserve judgement until I hear both sides.



#25 what if

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 03:28 PM

If his research is valid and his intentions are honest . . .

who cares what his "intentions" are.
who cares what he believes.
who even cares if he is a sot laying around drunk all day.
what matters is the research, his methods, and the standards he uses, and he is WILLING to lay this stuff right on the line.




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