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Some Questions From An Evolutionist About God.


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#1 mike the wiz

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 08:09 AM

I know it's pointless to attempt debating with every evolutionist on utube but here's some questions I thought I'd address, just for the fun of it;

 

 

 

Anonymous Evolutionist: Questions: If God did exist, why wouldn't He answer every believer's prayers? If God did exist, why not just come out and show everyone? If God did exist, why would He create a world where humans are the center and then add an infinite amount of space, stars, planets, black holes, meteorites, dark matter, etc. that we humans could never see? Why the excessive waste of space? If God did exist, why would He create conditions for animals in which newborns are often eaten alive? If God did exist why would He create commandments like Thou Shall not kill then advocate for child sacrifice (Isaiah comes to mind) or mass murder (nonbelievers in Chronicles? Christians' Answer: God works in mysterious ways!

 

 

 

Evo: If God did exist, why wouldn't He answer every believer's prayers?

 

Of course this begs the question, what is the believer's experience with prayer? The questioner himself has no experience which biases his judgement and makes it not count. It's like asking, "all you chocolate lovers, I have never tasted chocolate, but why aren't you having an orgasm every time you eat it if it's that good?"

 

The conclusion is obvious when you know logic; to answer every believers prayer would lead to immense chaos. Imagine if one believer asked Christ to return tomorrow and He did, and this spoilt God's plans for the gospel, for example. So to answer every prayer presumably with a, "yes", for every believer, would lead to such a mess that it would demonstrate why God is God, and not human reason. Under human atheist reason, God apparently should answer every prayer with a yes, which could potentially destroy the world. That's the difference between omniscient God-reasons and puny human reason.

 

 

 

Evo: If God did exist, why not just come out and show everyone?

 

As Christians we offer answers of apologetics for Christianity, not general theism. We believe the Lord is God. With that in mind, the Christian bible says, "for we live by faith not by sight." There are many scriptures that refer to this, why not try opening the bible which answers many of your questions? For example Jesus said to Thomas when he saw Jesus's nail imprints, "you have believed because you have seen, blessed are those who believe though they have not seen". (paraphrase)/

 

 

 

Evo: If God did exist, why would He create a world where humans are the center and then add an infinite amount of space, stars, planets, black holes, meteorites, dark matter, etc. that we humans could never see? Why the excessive waste of space?

 

Of course part of the premise, "God exists" is the hidden assumption that God has omniscience. Or it should be if you're talking to Christians because God is defined as all-knowing.

 

Given that assumption all questions which ask the human to have omniscient answers, when humans have finite minds, is basically a breaking of the law of non-contradiction. For how can I give omniscient reasons for why God does things, if I don't have omniscience?

 

So to presume humans have answers to all such questions, is erroneous thinking. As for humans being the "center", it depends on perspective. From an atheists subjective perspective, it is a, "waste of space" but from a Christian's perspective the vastness of the universe gives glory to God.

 

 

 

Evo: If God did exist, why would He create conditions for animals in which newborns are often eaten alive?

 

He didn't. The error is the assumption that God created those conditions. In case you have trouble understanding Genesis, it says none of the animals were carnivores when God created the "very good" conditions at the beginning of creation. The fall then led to conditions where carnivorous activity was now possible. 

 

 

 

Evo: If God did exist why would He create commandments like Thou Shall not kill then advocate for child sacrifice (Isaiah comes to mind) or mass murder (nonbelievers in Chronicles? Christians' Answer: God works in mysterious ways!

 

God can kill at all times because He is the Creator of life. The unspoken assumption in your argument is that God is accountable like a human being, which is intellectually absurd. God actually said, "do not murder", but killing for reasons of justice, by God, is not murder.

 

Example; Ted Bundy kills someone using an electric chair for fun.

An executioner kills Ted Bundy for his crimes of murder.

 

Do both examples logically count as murder? No, execution for judicial reasons is not murder.

 

Another hidden assumption with this atheist argument is that it presumes the atheist has telepathy, and knows the reasons why God does things, so it seems we have to take it by faith that the atheist knows God's motives.

 

Oh yes - you can completely trust atheists when they tell you God's motives, they would never have an agenda against God or argue against God would they? I suppose we can also trust the atheist when he quote-mines the bible and gives us his take on what God's motives were? Like when they say the bible says bats are birds? (Lol)

 

(yes this last part is sarcasm, I am making fun of the common tactics atheist use, of hunting through the bible to look for errors without realising that most of the time there are perfectly good answers to their complaints they aren't aware of, such as the fact that there was no scientific taxanomical classification in Hebrew and an "owph" (bird) was just defined as something that could fly.)

 

Advice to atheists of utube level; Actually learn, and seek to find answers to these questions and then you won't look silly when you come up against someone who can answer them EASILY. 



#2 mike the wiz

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 08:34 AM

This post isn't a general attack on atheists, but rather the type you get trawling utube telling us evolution is a fact, and kind of thing. I wouldn't be so obtuse as to count our atheist friends here, who have been tested and have genuinely learnt things, as being at that level but obviously I have to use the word "atheist" as that is what they are.



#3 mike the wiz

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 04:02 AM

UPDATE: the argument on utube went on, another atheist started to talk with me in the pleasant tones associated with atheists on utube, just for laughs I will quote some of the conversation as it's pretty amusing to me;

 
 
sciencetrumpsfaith said; Baba, magic isn't real. Life after death is the most blatant lie ever told. Brain function does not turn into a ghost. Grow the **** up and educate yourself.
 
mike the wiz(baba) said; "since we're talking about education, you do realise that most evolutionary scientists have some sort of faith which would indicate that science and faith aren't mutually exclusive?
 
To which he said;
 
sciencetrumpsfaith; Baba, you lying about scientists just proves you to be a morally inferior dope. 
I don't care if the entire planet adopted your life after death fairytale, 
it would still be baseless horse****. Facts are not decided by majority vote. The evidence says death after life, not the other way around. Corpses don't lie, pussies like you do.
 
 
mike the wiz;  to argue a conclusion from a lack of evidence is argumentum ad ignorantiam. (which I assume he might think is some sort of Spanish language ;) because to infer someone is innocent of a crime from a lack of evidence would be to argue from ignorance, and I can reverse this by saying that all the evidence of biogenesis shows life comes from life, which would surely make the evolution fairytale baseless. You must argue both to remain consistent and not commit a double standard,
 
to which he said something probably like this as it was pointless then to carry on;
 
you religitard,.....£4***ck off. (or some such thing as he used that phrase earlier).
 
Lol.
 
(What I don't get though is; what makes them like that? Are they just thugs? Obviously the atheists here wouldn't respond like that but it is fascinating entertainment just to see what response you will get from them, it's almost like putting a coin in a vendor machine to buy an insult. Lol)


#4 wibble

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 04:29 AM

To be fair Mike, I have seen plenty of creationists respond with the same level of vulgarity in the youtube comments sections so please don't make out it is an atheist only thing.



#5 mike the wiz

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 04:42 AM

I appreciate that Wibble but from my perspective I obviously only have arguments with atheists. To be honest I very seldom ever come across a creationist that uses that type of behaviour, usually when I scroll down on a creationist video I am watching, I will notice curse words, and "religitard" is a common phrase, etc...obviously that type of epithet isn't going to come from someone religious. The creationist responses were all civil on the video I was watchin.

 

So I think it's best to see my claim as this;

 

If you find someone behaving like this it's likely an anti-theist of some sort, anti-religious, hater.

 

Notice I'm not saying, "if you are atheist you are like this." but that a portion of atheists are the ones doing it.

 

Genuine Christians know Who they represent. I definitely think this type of behaviour will be coming from non-believers, including the wolves in sheeps clothing. That's not to say you are one of them, it's that if you are one of them, you are an unbeliever.

 

Even here atheists have been banned who use similar rhetorical arguments without the curse words but on a forum like EvC forum, I get cursed at by educated atheist evolutionists too, I can show evidence to prove it, I'll dig it out if you want, but I can't recall even one creationist ever acting like this.

 

All I'll say is this Wibble, the atheists here are pretty decent, BUT - if you saw on a street corner some yobs throwing bottles and swearing, are you really saying that you would believe they were devout Christians waiting for the curfew so they can say their prayers and go to bed, having lit candles to pray for the people they were cursing at?

 

:rolleyes:



#6 mike the wiz

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 05:40 AM

I was watching a video about "seeking God", basically it's just a Christian's video, a sermon you listen to, to be ministered to, and I thought to myself, "well, Wibble says it's not atheists, I'm going to scroll down and see if there is any vulgarities on this video, I predict if there are, it won't be coming from the Christians." And whaddaya know;

 

Exhibit A;

 

Attached File  utube1.jpg   76.88KB   3 downloads

 

Now I'm not trying to make light of what the poor chap has been through, but it's an example to me of how it even happens on a totally harmless video, that you will get an atheist turn up spewing vitriole about the Lord at us. Notice the polite response from the Christian, I sure don't see where he responds in the same way Wibble.

 

Now this was a totally benign video the type you wouldn't really even expect comments on, but the God haters are everywhere and they want to let you know it. Seems to me it's evidence of a sin problem we have been preaching about!

 

 



#7 Sleepy House

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 06:56 AM

 God can kill at all times because He is the Creator of life. The unspoken assumption in your argument is that God is accountable like a human being, which is intellectually absurd. God actually said, "do not murder", but killing for reasons of justice, by God, is not murder.

 

Example; Ted Bundy kills someone using an electric chair for fun.

An executioner kills Ted Bundy for his crimes of murder.

 

Do both examples logically count as murder? No, execution for judicial reasons is not murder. 

 

Yes. The two examples just don't legally count as murder. That is justification through the laws of man and the court. I know what it says to do in the Old Testament, but people choose what they want. In Numbers there's a ritual where a woman suspected of adultery is made to eat floor dust to see if her body swells and her thigh falls off and such.

 

Moving on, I do notice that atheists and evolutionists are given to being more belittling. It makes me sad, but I do see a lot of mockery, scoffing, and name-calling from their side. I personally don't believe in mocking, because it serves no purpose and it's mental violence. 

 

 Facts are not decided by majority vote. The evidence says death after life, not the other way around. Corpses don't lie, pussies like you do. 

 

Evidence says death after birth, not death after life. Anyway.

 

Addressing the questions by the evolutionists posted by the OP are hard to address because these are questions asked through the assumption that God is capable of making everyone happy but is choosing not to do so, making him some sort of cosmic ogre. The creator can't make everyone happy. It wouldn't be true happiness because that ignores duality. You can't be happy without knowing sadness, or know gain without having experienced loss. If you asked a fish "how does it feel to live in the water?" It would reply, "what the hell is water?"

 

If God did exist, why not just come out and show everyone?

 

You only know this when you no longer feel the need to ask this question.



#8 mike the wiz

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 07:08 AM

Thanks for your views sleepy house. Not sure about the Old Testament example, it seems you're implying that God didn't give any commandment or that He meant not to kill at all. If He meant "thou shalt not kill" since He didn't specify, that would mean they broke the law when they sacrificed animals.

 

C.S.Lewis argued that morality isn't just about physical effects, but it's about motivation. To say people execute because they want to is to presume you have access to their motivations, which nobody does. His example was brilliant, he said to imagine an incident took place where someone walked past you and kicked you by accident, and they were clearly very ashamed, blushing, embarrassed by their error, after the immediate hurt of the kick would you likely forgive them quickly? Most people would say to this; "but of course, it was just an accident, I wouldn't stay angry that would be absurd behaviour." And people would be right. But then imagine if someone passed by you a thug, and you saw him smirking at you and whisper to his friend, "I'm going to kick this idiot!" so he swings a kick at you, but you are prepared and he misses you, and he walks away laughing and smirking and unapologetic.

 

Now, morally speaking, which person would you be more annoyed with, the nice person that physically harmed you, or the nasty person that caused you no harm?

 

Can you see this proves there is more to morality than physical harm?

 

Obviously if someone like Bundy murdered for pleasure that's not the same thing as people executing him FOR his crimes. The motivation is judicial. If it is always a sin to kill, then that means even a just war was murder. It seems to me that in some instances it's okay to kill. If someone is trying to kill you and they definitely intend to do it, if you strike them and kill them because they were attempting to murder you, that is not murder, and it was okay for you to do that.

 

It would be a bad thing, sure - but if you later found out this was someone that had raped and murdered 17 other people, then you had probably just saved another 17 people from a terrible death by killing this animal.



#9 what if

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 08:11 AM

mike the wiz(baba) said; "since we're talking about education, you do realise that most evolutionary scientists have some sort of faith which would indicate that science and faith aren't mutually exclusive?
 
To which he said;
 
sciencetrumpsfaith; Baba, you lying about scientists just proves you to be a morally inferior dope. 
I don't care if the entire planet adopted your life after death fairytale, 
it would still be baseless horse****. Facts are not decided by majority vote. The evidence says death after life, not the other way around. Corpses don't lie, pussies like you do.

apparently this person has NO IDEA what he is saying.
there is a measure of faith in everything that you do not have first hand knowledge of.
and you can take that to the bank dude.

and who cares if a scientist has faith in god, it's completely irrelevant.
but there are some that would like for you to believe it is.

when 80% of responders answers yes to the following question, it means quite a bit:
do you feel you are more that what physical laws can explain?
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#10 mike the wiz

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 08:21 AM

 

 

What If: apparently this person has NO IDEA what he is saying.

 

I know, "but some people without brains do an awful lot of talking don't they?" - The Scarecrow - The Wizard Of Oz

 

:D

 

 



#11 what if

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 08:32 AM

What If: apparently this person has NO IDEA what he is saying.

 
I know, "but some people without brains do an awful lot of talking don't they?" - The Scarecrow - The Wizard Of Oz
 
:D

it's people like that that makes me crazy.
arguing against something when they have no idea what in the world they are arguing against.

you are taking it on faith that the sun will rise tomorrow because there is exactly ZERO evidence that says it will.

sure, there is plenty of evidence that says it SHOULD, but none that says it will.

#12 mike the wiz

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 08:50 AM

 

 

What If: it's people like that that makes me crazy.
arguing against something when they have no idea what in the world they are arguing against.

 

Most people can see them for what they are but they have no power to make us emote. In this instance mild amusement was my only emotion. In the past I would have been more thin-skinned, before I learnt Mike Summers psychology, words literally are just noises or code on a screen, to take an insult which we know is a false statement about us, and take it to heart, really is just natural human dumbness, I'm glad Mike made me see the deception that we tell ourselves - that their words caused us to emote. of course they didn't!

 

Now I try to think properly, but I am still a work in progress, usually when insults come my way for no apparent reason it goes straight in one ear and out the other. I'm not thick skinned and never will have the good fortune to be but I think amusement is a fairly good replacement emotion. Because it is kind of funny how they behave...this guy was almost foaming at the mouth, I felt like saying, "perhaps you should immediately go to the asylum but I wouldn't recommend it, the way you're acting now it wouldn't surprise me if when you got there you would bite a segment out of one of the nurse's butt cheeks".

 

:rotfl3:


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#13 Blitzking

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 06:02 PM

 

UPDATE: the argument on utube went on, another atheist started to talk with me in the pleasant tones associated with atheists on utube, just for laughs I will quote some of the conversation as it's pretty amusing to me;

 
 
sciencetrumpsfaith said; Baba, magic isn't real. Life after death is the most blatant lie ever told. Brain function does not turn into a ghost. Grow the **** up and educate yourself.
 
mike the wiz(baba) said; "since we're talking about education, you do realise that most evolutionary scientists have some sort of faith which would indicate that science and faith aren't mutually exclusive?
 
To which he said;
 
sciencetrumpsfaith; Baba, you lying about scientists just proves you to be a morally inferior dope. 
I don't care if the entire planet adopted your life after death fairytale, 
it would still be baseless horse****. Facts are not decided by majority vote. The evidence says death after life, not the other way around. Corpses don't lie, pussies like you do.
 
 
mike the wiz;  to argue a conclusion from a lack of evidence is argumentum ad ignorantiam. (which I assume he might think is some sort of Spanish language ;) because to infer someone is innocent of a crime from a lack of evidence would be to argue from ignorance, and I can reverse this by saying that all the evidence of biogenesis shows life comes from life, which would surely make the evolution fairytale baseless. You must argue both to remain consistent and not commit a double standard,
 
to which he said something probably like this as it was pointless then to carry on;
 
you religitard,.....£4***ck off. (or some such thing as he used that phrase earlier).
 
Lol.
 
(What I don't get though is; what makes them like that? Are they just thugs? Obviously the atheists here wouldn't respond like that but it is fascinating entertainment just to see what response you will get from them, it's almost like putting a coin in a vendor machine to buy an insult. Lol)

 

 

"Obviously the atheists here wouldn't respond like that"

 

I might posit that they would no longer be on here is they did respond like that..

One can only wonder how they respond on other threads without the rules that

they must comply with in order to remain on this thread... I suspect the wording to

be quite different..  I am merely pidgeonholing them to be sure, but I have vast

experience being on the receiving end of baseless ad homs at the hands of self

proclaimed Accidental Apes who believe that their great great great grandpa was

a mindless worm... How degrading it must be to have to believe in AbioDarwinism..

They are to be pitied and as good Samaritans we have a duty to try to help them

even if they have been brainwashed into thinking they are on the side of "Science"

 

:orjnfq: 

 

I too have learned to look at the VASTLY BIGGER picture. And their souls are worth

FAR MORE to God then my fragile ego.... So I consider the source... Many of these

people do not feel well and are merely crying out for help.. If I attack them (Like they

deserve) I am merely playing into Satan's hands and allowing their "Christian Baiting"

strategy (and that is all that it is) of trying to evoke an "unchristianlike" response by any

means necessary in order to allow themselves to feel better about their hopeless state

because they can yell "HYPOCRITE" all over the internet.. and day SEE? another Phony..

 

Some of their favorites are "Liars for Jesus" "Creotards" as well as "Science Deniers" Etc.

 

Now I just try to humor them and make jokes that lighten the mood of the conversation as

THEY ARE NOT MY ENEMY.... The Devil is..

 

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in high places.​ Eph 6:12


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