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#1 mike the wiz

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 06:56 AM

Thinking more about insults, I suppose if we do process the noise-codes that come from people's mouths, sometimes that can be like a bait.

 

I agree with Mike's philosophy, it seems factual that although an insult is meant for offence, it seems for the target to hit home, was have to open the target for display.

 

If our heart is ultimately the target, then let us represent our minds as the shield. When someone sends us an offence, we have the choice to raise the shield or let it down.

 

It seems to me we are more prone to not raise the shields, if the person can cleverly capitalise by finding that one thing we are insecure about. This accentuates the insult, and effectively makes the insult a sharper arrow, yet we still have to let our shield down in order for the arrow to hit home.

 

Notice the nature of an insult; it is to describe the person as the sole descriptor, as though this descriptor fully describes what the person is. Effectively an absurd deception.

 

Example; "you are a fatty." (an overweight person)

 

This fool has chosen the one thing that they know will emotionally hurt the other person if they say it, as they know their weight problem may create a weakness in their psychology. A wicked person that is sadistic and cunning, obviously looks for the type of insult that will hit home the hardest. But this person isn't only a, "fatty", and there will obviously be a lot more to a person than what they weigh, which doesn't matter much except as a health issue. This is the healthy thing that person should tell themselves, but we are very foolish sometimes, and we tell ourselves negative things that agree with the insult. Example; "I am fat, that's all I am, I have no value." CODSWALLOP - that's what they want you to think - snap out of it!

 

Obviously the more child-like, puerile person, thrives from using insults because their desire is to cause pain and we know that wickedness is ultimately the problem with the sinner. Sometimes we don't insult to cause pain, we just insult because we ourselves are emoting, we may be angry and tell ourselves the solution is to insult the other person or belittle them in some way.

 

The definition of mikey-mischief on the other hand is harmless mischievous fun. The insults themselves won't mean anything because they would apply to anyone and ultimately are either fake words or fictional entities. Example, "you cantankerous balrog." Translated; "you grumpy fictional creature".

 

This is to get a kick out of mischief, but the mischief is never intended as an actual insult with any motive to cause the person hurt but is always coming from a benevolent happiness/cheerfulness. The totality of the meaning of the mischief is only the amusement I get from finding ways to get away with being a naughty boy. :D

 

Example; "mike, get out of class, there is no chewing gum in the classroom, only after school can you chew gum, stand outside please until the end of school."

 

mike hears the school bell ring for the end of school, he knocks on the window and the teacher sees him in the window, and he puts a new gum chew in his mouth and with an expression of joy chews the gum and waves to the teacher. 

 

:gotcha: 



#2 Mike Summers

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 02:23 PM


Mike the wiz said:

 

Thinking more about insults, I suppose if we do process the noise-codes that come from people's mouths, sometimes that can be like a bait.
 

That is to say we tell ourselves to bite. There is absolutely no power external to cause us to bite and emote. Ask and answer the question what is the purpose of news casts and newspapers? Suppose words (code) were spoken in a language we do not not know how to process?

 

 
I agree with Mike's philosophy, it seems factual that although an insult is meant for offence, it seems for the target to hit home, we have to open the target for display.

.
But as I would say, "it" has no emotion causing components. If "it" did, the experience would broadcast that component to us--no need to for anyone to tell us the news (something happened). 

 

If our heart is ultimately the target, then let us represent our minds as the shield. When someone sends us an offence, we have the choice to raise the shield or let it down.
 

I would say our involvement is much more than raising or lowering a shiled. That seems to infer that the arrow (the event) could continue on by its own power to do its dirty deed (cause us to emote unplesantly negative). That can't happen without us picking up the arrow, sharpenin it up, stickrning in our own breast and viciously twisting it!

 

It seems to me we are more prone to not raise the shields, if the person can cleverly capitalise by finding that one thing we are insecure about. This accentuates the insult, and effectively makes the insult a sharper arrow, yet we still have to let our shield down in order for the arrow to hit home.

Remember the whole process works by a neurotic agreement. Essentially, "I agree to upset myself if you say certain things to me!"

All this we do on cue to ourself and foolishly blame the event for causing us to emote a certain way. And yet, it goes to the trouble to say at the end of Genesis 2 that the man and his wife were both naked and not embarassed. It was not nakedness that caused their embarasment but a change in their thinking
about nakedness after talking to Satan and eating of his tree. God gave man dominion over the environment. Satan taught Adam & Eve the envirornment (it) had dominion over them. It's the same lie today!

 

 

Notice the nature of an insult; it is to describe the person as the sole descriptor, as though this descriptor fully describes what the person is. Effectively an absurd deception.
 

Excellent!

 

Example; "you are a fatty." (an overweight person)
 
This fool has chosen the one thing that they know will emotionally hurt the other person if they say it, as they know their weight problem may create a weakness in their psychology. A wicked person that is sadistic and cunning, obviously looks for the type of insult that will hit home the hardest. But this person isn't only a, "fatty", and there will obviously be a lot more to a person than what they weigh, which doesn't matter much except as a health issue. This is the healthy thing that person should tell themselves, but we are very foolish sometimes, and we tell ourselves negative things that agree with the insult. Example; "I am fat, that's all I am, I have no value." CODSWALLOP - that's what they want you to think.

Another example "I am a failure!" The subject equalls the predicate. This is a gross exaggeration as who can fail at everything? I often warn, "Beware the "is" of identity.
Well said!

 

 

Obviously the more child-like, puerile person, thrives from using insults because their desire is to cause pain and we know that wickedness is ultimately the problem with the sinner. Sometimes we don't insult to cause pain, we just insult because we ourselves are emoting, we may be angry and tell ourselves the solution is to insult the other person or belittle them in some way.

Exactly!
 

 

The definition of mikey-mischief on the other hand is harmless mischievous fun. The insults themselves won't mean anything because they would apply to anyone and ultimately are either fake words or fictional entities. Example, "you cantankerous balrog." Translated; "you grumpy fictional creature".
 
This is to get a kick out of mischief, but the mischief is never intended as an actual insult with any motive to cause the person hurt but is always coming from a benevolent happiness/cheerfulness. The totality of the meaning of the mischief is only the amusement I get from finding ways to get away with being a naughty boy.
 
Example; "mike, get out of class, there is no chewing gum in the classroom, only after school can you chew gum, stand outside please until the end of school."
 
mike hears the school bell ring for the end of school, he knocks on the window and the teacher sees him in the window, and he puts a new gum chew in his mouth and with an expression of joy chews the gum and waves to the teacher.

 

This is the essence of humor--paradoxical intentikon. However caveats apply. School may not be the time for humor. LOL



#3 mike the wiz

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 02:40 PM

:D The master himself corrects me. Watch out Mike, one day I may catch up on the psychology and laugh at your supeerior intellect.

 

*chews gum while mike speaks*.  ;)



#4 Mike Summers

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 03:25 PM

The road you have chosen (Christianity allows you but two goals. Love God with all your heart and look out for me as much as you look out for yourself. Ditto for me. You will alwasy mean more to me than any thoughts I could think. "Perfect love casts out fear." I exist to be your friend!

 

Gum chewing has neither a positive or negative effect on me.  LOL


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#5 Fjuri

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 02:32 AM

Mike Summers is correct when coping with events that you can do nothing about (like being in an accident). However, it is also the "perfect" excuse to become a consummate bully. It places the blame on the victim when in fact the bully is at fault for intending distress in the victim. 



#6 mike the wiz

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 02:39 AM

Fjuri, this is where I would say I struggle with Mike's theory also but we haven't allowed him to explain that part. I am not sure he is saying the bully is innocent. If memory serves it has to do with forgiving that which has happened.

 

I do think there is merit in not getting distressed if that is what the bully intends. Certainly that makes the bully's bullets like fired blanks?

 

But you're right this thinking doesn't justify a wicked bully, I would say it does bring peace to the intended victim. What is still annoying to me is that the bully will walk away and even if he hasn't succeeded in getting us to agree to his arrows and stick them in us, he still walks away with a smile, thinking he has succeeded.

 

I call this sod's law. ;)



#7 Blitzking

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 02:58 AM

Thinking more about insults, I suppose if we do process the noise-codes that come from people's mouths, sometimes that can be like a bait.

I agree with Mike's philosophy, it seems factual that although an insult is meant for offence, it seems for the target to hit home, was have to open the target for display.

If our heart is ultimately the target, then let us represent our minds as the shield. When someone sends us an offence, we have the choice to raise the shield or let it down.

It seems to me we are more prone to not raise the shields, if the person can cleverly capitalise by finding that one thing we are insecure about. This accentuates the insult, and effectively makes the insult a sharper arrow, yet we still have to let our shield down in order for the arrow to hit home.

Notice the nature of an insult; it is to describe the person as the sole descriptor, as though this descriptor fully describes what the person is. Effectively an absurd deception.

Example; "you are a fatty." (an overweight person)

This fool has chosen the one thing that they know will emotionally hurt the other person if they say it, as they know their weight problem may create a weakness in their psychology. A wicked person that is sadistic and cunning, obviously looks for the type of insult that will hit home the hardest. But this person isn't only a, "fatty", and there will obviously be a lot more to a person than what they weigh, which doesn't matter much except as a health issue. This is the healthy thing that person should tell themselves, but we are very foolish sometimes, and we tell ourselves negative things that agree with the insult. Example; "I am fat, that's all I am, I have no value." CODSWALLOP - that's what they want you to think - snap out of it!

Obviously the more child-like, puerile person, thrives from using insults because their desire is to cause pain and we know that wickedness is ultimately the problem with the sinner. Sometimes we don't insult to cause pain, we just insult because we ourselves are emoting, we may be angry and tell ourselves the solution is to insult the other person or belittle them in some way.

The definition of mikey-mischief on the other hand is harmless mischievous fun. The insults themselves won't mean anything because they would apply to anyone and ultimately are either fake words or fictional entities. Example, "you cantankerous balrog." Translated; "you grumpy fictional creature".

This is to get a kick out of mischief, but the mischief is never intended as an actual insult with any motive to cause the person hurt but is always coming from a benevolent happiness/cheerfulness. The totality of the meaning of the mischief is only the amusement I get from finding ways to get away with being a naughty boy. :D

Example; "mike, get out of class, there is no chewing gum in the classroom, only after school can you chew gum, stand outside please until the end of school."

mike hears the school bell ring for the end of school, he knocks on the window and the teacher sees him in the window, and he puts a new gum chew in his mouth and with an expression of joy chews the gum and waves to the teacher.

:gotcha:


"Thinking more about insults, I suppose if we do process the noise-codes that come from people's mouths, sometimes that can be like a bait."

They most definitely are a bait in every sense of the word..
I often refer to them as "Christian Baiting Strategies" I have been using this phrase for years, I dont know if someone invented it before I did or not, but it is CLEARLY what is utilized all day every day by Atheists, who suffer from severe auto esteem issues (One of the unavoidable consequences of a worldview that forces oneself to believe that they are merely an accidental ape that evolved from a worm for no reason)

The Atheist will use any method in their arsenal to viciously attack and belittle Creationists in order to evoke an "Unchristianlike" response whenceforth the Atheist will proceed to shout "Hypocrite" at the top of his lungs for as long as anyone will listen.. A few classics include "Liar for Jesus" "Creotard" "Science Denier" "Idiot"
"Godbot" "Low IQ" "Uneducated" and much much worse..

That is why I always tell fellow Creationist Christians to realize what is happening, keep their eyes on the big picture, and dont fall for the treacherous chicanery.. If it gets too bad, just wash your hands and shake the dust off of your feet and dont get sucked into a losers game.. There are plenty of lost souls out there who need to hear the truth about the Fraudulent Myth of AbioDarwinism and be shown that God is the author of creation and they have been given the opportunity to seek his truth and righteousness along with 100 Billion other souls throughout the ages..

Dont let one hellbound fool discourage you.. Just pray for them and move on..

I have been called every filthy name in the book.. And I embrace every word of it because Jesus told me it would happen and the more flak I get, The closer to the target I am..


"22 You will be hated by everyone on account of My name, but the one who perseveres to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next. Matthew 10


11Put on the full armor of God, so that you can make your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this world's darkness, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore take up the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you will be able to stand your ground, and having done everything, to stand. Ephesians 6
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#8 Fjuri

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 02:59 AM

Fjuri, this is where I would say I struggle with Mike's theory also but we haven't allowed him to explain that part. I am not sure he is saying the bully is innocent. If memory serves it has to do with forgiving that which has happened.

 

I do think there is merit in not getting distressed if that is what the bully intends. Certainly that makes the bully's bullets like fired blanks?

 

But you're right this thinking doesn't justify a wicked bully, I would say it does bring peace to the intended victim. What is still annoying to me is that the bully will walk away and even if he hasn't succeeded in getting us to agree to his arrows and stick them in us, he still walks away with a smile, thinking he has succeeded.

Lets disagree on what we've perceived as Mike's motives. I'll add that I know him a lot longer than you do.

 

But I agree 100% it can give peace for the intended victim, I just don't think the effort should be done by the victim to cope with bullying.



#9 mike the wiz

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 03:19 AM

An excellent post BK! It just needed a disclaimer which I feel is necessary so as to avoid guilt by association, and that is this disclaimer; our atheist friends here like Goku and Fjuri don't behave that way, so why can't those bull anti-theists behave like them!

 

The regular atheists here have my respect for the fact they hang around a forum which doesn't allow cursing and insults, showing they are not here to just throw that kind of stuff at us. We do get some drive-by-shooters, of course which tend to get banned. :D



#10 Mike Summers

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 05:01 AM


Fjuri said:

  Posted 03 July 2017 - 03:32 AM
Mike Summers is correct when coping with events that you can do nothing about (like being in an accident). However, it is also the "perfect" excuse to become a consummate bully. It places the blame on the victim when in fact the bully is at fault for intending distress in the victim. 

We are better off if we acceept responsibility for our emotions and not deceive ourselves into believing somebody external to us can do anything to us by hurling words at us. It is not what enters into a man that defiles a man. It is what we tell ourselves about what others say.\

There is an old addage that is true but, has fallen from favor. "Sticks and stones may break my ones but, words will never hurt me." We are upset not by what the bully says but our thiknking about what the Billy says. We teach people to play victim and yes we are victims, of our own thinking.

When a dog acts like a dog we are not surrprised. When a cat acts like a cat we are not surprised. So why "beliieve" what a bully says? He's doing his bully thing! Meow! Meow! Don't take him so seriously! LOL

#11 mike the wiz

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 06:33 AM

 

 

Mike: It is not what enters into a man that defiles a man. It is what we tell ourselves about what others say.\

 

But doesn't this passage actually say but "what comes out of a man" is what defiles him, not "what enters into a man"? Because a man speaks from what is in his heart. So when the pharisees said lies about Jesus for example, because they were really jealous and wicked.

 

It seems to me Jesus used equivocation to make a point, that we shouldn't be interested so much with the dirt from washing our hands, but the sinful dirt coming from the sinful heart inside us.



#12 Mike Summers

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 03:56 PM

 

Mike: It is not what enters into a man that defiles a man. It is what we tell ourselves about what others say.\

But doesn't this passage actually say but "what comes out of a man" is what defiles him, not "what enters into a man"?
[/quote]
Reread the sentence.

Because a man speaks from what is in his heart. So when the pharisees said lies about Jesus for example, because they were really jealous and wicked.

They be blnd guides,  And if the blnd lead the blind rhey will both fall in the ditch.

It seems to me Jesus used equivocation to make a point, that we shouldn't be interested so much with the dirt from washing our hands, but the sinful dirt coming from the sinful heart inside us.


Exactly
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#13 Goku

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 10:40 AM

Fjuri, this is where I would say I struggle with Mike's theory also but we haven't allowed him to explain that part. I am not sure he is saying the bully is innocent. If memory serves it has to do with forgiving that which has happened.

 

I have, on several occasions, explicitly asked Mike Summers about his 'we are totally responsible for our own emotions' 'theory' in relation to physical and psychological violence against another person. I would use examples like a father being forced to watch his daughter get raped and murdered and would ask if the perpetrators of these violent acts were at all responsible in any way (no matter how minuscule) for the pain and grief the father experienced, and each and every time I would ask such questions to Mike he would either skirt around the issue not really addressing it, or would remain completely silent.

 

As best I can tell his view is that the perpetrators are not responsible for the emotional pain the father experiences, but knows it would sound awful to say so.
 



#14 mike the wiz

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 11:08 AM

Thanks for your input, Goku. Perhaps Mike could answer that one himself. The naughty baba must explain this to us. Mike you naughty boy, what is this that Goku says! Repent!!!!! ;)

 

Without being too mikey mischievious I am hoping Mike's answer wouldn't be to say to the father, "you're doing it to yourself and the only way to stop is to quit." ;)

 

I also confess sometimes it seems like Mike is saying the bible is saying things which I myself find difficult to see. I think Mike like everyone isn't perfect and means well, I can accept he has learnt things perhaps which are somehow connected with his own life experience so perhaps it is difficult to think like he thinks as he seems to have dedicated himself to a psychology philosophy much the same way a Buddhist might commit himself to practising certain actions for many years, like meditation. Sometimes he makes to big a deal of things like when we say, "it", sometimes Mike that's just lazy typing and nothing more you naughty boy. :P

 

He does seem to have achieved a very passive way of dealing with life that makes him able to somehow remove the negative emotions.



#15 Fjuri

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 11:59 AM

Thanks for your input, Goku. Perhaps Mike could answer that one himself. The naughty baba must explain this to us. Mike you naughty boy, what is this that Goku says! Repent!!!!! ;)

 

Without being too mikey mischievious I am hoping Mike's answer wouldn't be to say to the father, "you're doing it to yourself and the only way to stop is to quit." 

That could be a post-trauma psychologist's answer to help a person to cope with a trauma. "What's done is done, you cannot undo the past. You have to live with it."

 

I also confess sometimes it seems like Mike is saying the bible is saying things which I myself find difficult to see. I think Mike like everyone isn't perfect and means well, I can accept he has learnt things perhaps which are somehow connected with his own life experience so perhaps it is difficult to think like he thinks as he seems to have dedicated himself to a psychology philosophy much the same way a Buddhist might commit himself to practising certain actions for many years, like meditation. ..

One of the things he mentions is that the tree of good and evil caused people to become upset with things that "shouldn't be". Like for instance their nakedness, but also people stealing from others. The tree not only provided us with morals (so from then on, we would be able to "feel" disobeying God is bad) but also become upset when these morals are violated.

 

Sometimes he makes to big a deal of things like when we say, "it", sometimes Mike that's just lazy typing and nothing more you naughty boy. 

That's since I made the topic "the personification of natural selection". I'm not saying its related, but its correlated... 

According to his logic, I'm not the cause though. ;)



#16 Mike Summers

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 05:49 PM

Goku said:

Fjuri, this is where I would say I struggle with Mike's theory also but we haven't allowed him to explain that part. I am not sure he is saying the bully is innocent. If memory serves it has to do with forgiving that which has happened.

I am sorry you were under the misconception that I would ever condone bullying. I don't. However, I rarely get a bully and his victim in therapy! Insets, I get their victim only! I go with the idea that I can help the victim deal with the negative control tactics of his bully (a lot of hot air) or rhetoric!

I am supporting what "it" (LOL) means to be an autonomous happy self-ruling being.

I am not saying the bully doesn't have issues. He or she does. But we can bully proof ourselves and our children by teaching ourselves that our mind and only our mind triggers the emotions we feel in the privacy of ourr mind. I have replaced anger and hate with "appropriate"concern.

Once something happens it slips irretrievably into the past. It's spilled milk. It's water under the bridge. I have offered to handsomely pay to borrow someone's time travel machine but no one has come forth. I would take the numbers that are drawn for the Powerball when it was several hundred million dollars, go back to yesterday and play those numbers!

Forgiveness is the same as accepting reality. It put's an end to perversely thinking that what already happened could have been prevented!--a waste of time!

Several years ago CNN ran a teaser, "Could 9/11 have Been Prevented?" Of course not! It already happened! I invite you or anyone to go back in time and prevent it! I imagine we would immediately have people who lost their loved ones make us their hero.

I have, on several occasions, explicitly asked Mike Summers about his 'we are totally responsible for our own emotions' 'theory' in relation to physical and psychological violence against another person.

Think of all the many times you used your mental accuity to get out of an escalating situation. We are better off thinking we are in control than thinking something external from us somehow controls us (it).

Though seemingly a "simple" answer, the emotion anger (hate) is triggered by us in our mind by lying to ourselves. We observe an event happen before us and then tell ourselves it shouldn' have happened (it did). That's what triggers our anger emotion. Here's the way we work. TEB (Think, Emote and Behave).

For example take road rage. Someone cut us off and we immediately lie to ourselves. "He shouldn't of done that, It could have caused an accident." Notice the use of "it" as an inferred causitive agent."

Mike: "No, it couldn't have caused an accident because it didn't! Moreover, I doubt seriously if the person that cut us off planned the event. Perhaps they were doings some distracted driving!

Great questions guys. I am glad you finally asked them. Now I know your concerns. No harm done. Get over it. LOL

I would use examples like a father being forced to watch his daughter get raped and murdered and would ask if the perpetrators of these violent acts were at all responsible in any way (no matter how minuscule) for the pain and grief the father experienced, and each and every time I would ask such questions to Mike he would either skirt around the issue not really addressing it, or would remain completely silent.

How many fathers do you know that have experienced such a thing? Your example is an extreme hypothetical.

Here is an axoim to balance things: Others may subtly influence us but, influence does not equal control!

Granted it would be difficult to control oneself in such a situation. But rather than becomming blindingly angry, I would be thinking of ways to end what was happening. I believe the father is better off not punishing himself for what someone else did wrong. The father need not indulge himself in the illusion that all the negative emotions (caused by his mind) will do something good (like undo an unfortunate situation). I'd like to know what good all his negative emotions will do?

Restrain is fine but an additional violent episode is not going to undo what already happened! Forgiveness (accepting reality) is probably the best answer for the father and the daughter.. That's not to say the aggressor be allowed to victimize others. In any event usually only victims come to therapy after such an event. I am there to teach them how to get over it and go on with the rest of their life--with a clean slate--totally forgiving and forgiven.

 

As best I can tell his view is that the perpetrators are not responsible for the emotional pain the father experiences, but knows it would sound awful to say so.

Remember, I am doing therapy on the victim not the perp.
Of course the perp has problems. However blaming my clients disturbane on his perp is a wrong diagnosis. It is like putting a new tire on the front of a car thinking that it will fix the flat on the rear of the car. How can someone external to us do our thinking for us?

Others are not responsible for what we feel. That's the example my savior Jesus set on the cross for me when he said, "Father forive them for they know ow not what they do!" He never whined about the past like we do. I try to follow his example. "Forgetting those things behind..."

Hate only begets hate as love only begets love.






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