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The True Self―That Which Alone Is Real


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#21 Schera Do

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 12:34 PM

I've gone to great lengths to declare some things not helpful.

Perhaps, this might help.

Help!

(Schwing!! t-o-t-p)
.

...
So did Jung consider these things while speaking junk jung?

{emoticon removed for claritiy}

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My prediction is that you are going to be on the list for a long time.

#22 Schera Do

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 09:36 AM

Perhaps, this will help.

Help!

#23 mike the wiz

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 10:51 AM

 

 

Schera: My prediction is that you are going to be on the list for a long time.

 

[m]That's okay, I am enjoying all of the attention you are giving me while I am on your ignore list.[/m]

 

(m = mischief) :gotcha:

 

(You love me really Schera!) :D



#24 philosophik

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 09:49 PM


Pain in a dream says nothing about the reality beyond the dream. If you control an avatar in a computer simulation ... ?
...

 

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Schera Do said:  What is the difference between this dream and the one you reference in your answer in post #6 on this page? That answer from #6 is, with my emphasis added:
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...
The difference is the transvestite is advising to be the dream, which his/her mind has produced for his/her body's pleasure. While I'm advising to wake up from the dream and stop identifying with the mind that produced it, and Be the Self that is beyond this illusion--which you already are, except that your mind is so convinced by the false reality of dualisms, that it has deceived you into beleiving that your true nature is'nt non-dual. It's a huge explicit difference.
...

 

Your'e asking what's the difference between one dream and another dream? Nothing, exept for the contents of the dream. The dreamer is One, the dreams are many.
 

Schera Do said: Further, your statement, "{p}ain in a dream says nothing about the reality beyond the dream," is false when it does comport with reality. This is additional evidence that I am correct that your advice is--to be kind--not helpful.

Lastly, which organ does one employ to get an accurate assessment of "reality beyond the dream." You should know that your reply--or lack thereof--to this question will determine when I will stop reading your posts.

 

 

You say my statement is false because you don't know the difference between the dream and Reality. You take your perceptions and your interpretation of these perceptions and create an experience by thinking you know what these perceptions are. You then identify with these experiences and convince yourself they are real. But whatever you perceive changes. That is the nature of consciousness, and what changes can't be real. Only that which is permanment is Real. Find that in you which is permanent, and see that all organs actually emerge from you and therefore, are insufficient by their very nature in their ability to give you 'an accurate assessment of reality.'

 

You have been so conditioned to think you are a person that you can't fathom for one second that you might not be. But I can tell you with certainty, whatever you think yourself to be, you are not. There is one fact that is certain, all else is inference. Do you know what this one fact is?



#25 philosophik

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 11:41 PM

 

 

 

Philosophik: Mike don't you see the very language you use and the way you express your veiw of reality is dualitic to the core. Your world is a play of opposites where there is good vs. evil, self vs. environement, future vs. past, inner vs. outer. A world where you as the person are in the universe, but the universe is not you. A world full of distinctions, things to be named by shape and appearance and to be known by the mind. Yours is a world where God's creations are not God because the two (this is thinking yourself as a dualism) are seperate. Is there anything you disagree with here?

 

The trick with this rhetoric is to MERGE that which I am forced to agree with and duality. Obviously I make distinctions but this isn't dualism. For example with your examples I don't think in those binary terms, the world isn't black and white but sometimes nuanced with greys. For example you say "future versus past" so as to force a duality but there is actually future, past and present. You say "good versus evil" but I don't see that in the real world, for there is good and evil but also there are acts which are neither. As for "inner and outer", I actually see boundaries and fine, nuances, for example there is the level of biochemistry, but then there is the anatomy, but then our body has an outer but also a boundary then an inner, then more boundaries and more inners.

 

So I don't think you can say that I see all things as this binary duality. I simply see things for what they are. 

 

So your argument is this; "if you don't disagree with these things therefore you believe what I say you do about the world." But not really, I don't see things as dualisms. I don't even see any battle of good versus evil in the sense that Satan is no competition. Silly people see evil as equal with good, not understanding that evil is only a perverted version of good. So there is no duality except in the sense that evil is the opposite of good. To value all acts as equal is to betray our knowledge of morality. 

 

Are you saying cruelly beating a person to death for fun is equal to caring for them? Essentially you are which is why you indeed do have a philosophy.

 

 

Ok, granted, you may not see things in a binary duality, but seeing things as trinities or in any other multiplicity is just as illusory. You say you see things for what they are, but as long as you see things, you are not seeing the universe as it is.

 

I am not saying good and evil are equal. How can that be the case when I'm certain there is no good or evil. There is only suffering and freedom from suffering--Wisdom and ignorance. Those who are asleep suffer in ignorance, while Wisdom is waking up and being free from wrong ideas about who you are. Being in the Natural/Supreme state. In this state you would never cruelly beat a person to death, and equally care for the person who did. After all, in this state there are no persons, there is only Self.

 

Again, Being the Self is not a philosophy. You are what you are regardless of what you think you are. And actually, thinking philosophies prevents you from Being the real Self. Please understand this: Thinking you are something prevents you from Being Aware of what you are.

 

 

 

 

Philosophik: On the quantumn level the universe is one unified field of energy with no actual distinctions--it is when there is a perceiver who "thinks" that there are, that the world of things 'appears' to be. That suggests that the universe is One in essence, and not a collection of separate things as it appears in the mind.

 

Yes but the clue is in the word, "uni-verse" which means "united diverse". If someone chops off my finger, because my finger is not me, I can carry on living. There is a unity but this does not preclude diversity.

 

In the same way you could say that on the micro-level all parts of a plane are non-flying, but could you conclude therefore that a plane as a whole is a non-flying thing? So I would say you commit the fallacy of composition here, by not realising that there is more than one level to reality. You "perceive" how the universe is unified but you reject how the universe is diverse, not realising that there is no contradiction, for you can have both diversity, and unity. 

 

In this way God is not the universe, and I am not God. But I am part of God's family, and I am part of the universe. In the same way a plane's wheel is not a plane but it is part of a plane and does function as a unified whole but that doesn't mean that the wheel is the plane.

 

 

As long as you give more value to words and what you think they mean in relation to your experiences, instead of taking the first step in finding your true Being, then your world will always be 'united diverse.' Don't you see that diversity is in the mind only. It isn't actually out 'there,' because there is no 'out there.' You think you see a flying plane when you look to the sky and you tell yourself you see a distinction, and so you see one. Where there is no thinking, and only Being, there is no plane. Even if a so called person standing next to you thinks he see's one, it means nothing because he is dreaming. It's all in his imagination.

 

Reality doesn't have levels, consciousness does. Consciousness is in Reality, but Reality is beyond consciousness. It is because you take the contents of consciousness as reality, that you see 'diversity in unity' as a fact and not an illusion. The Self's infinite capacity to Be creates variety, yet the variety is transient and the Self is not. The Self is real, the variety is not. It is imagined.

 

Let me ask you this: What is God, if you are not there to put forth the question? You say you are not God, and God is not you, yet God cannot Be without you Being Aware of him. One cannot Be without the other, for the very simple fact that they are One.

 

 

 

Philosophik: How does Being what you are equate to a philosophy? How can anything be more meaningful than truly knowing what you are and how to Be it? 

 

Because I have to agree with some beliefs you have expounded, therefore it is a philosophy; this comment I have quoted is begging-the-question, because I can know who I am without believing the following;

 

- I am God

- pain doesn't exist.

- I am the universe, and "one" with everything.

 

For if God is one with everything and all people then God would be Jack The Ripper meaning on judgement day God would go to hell.

 

If you are God you would know everything. Your posts suggest you aren't even aware of fallacious argumentation. :P

 

 

 


 

 

Philosophik: How does Being what you are equate to a philosophy? How can anything be more meaningful than truly knowing what you are and how to Be it? 

But you are saying a lot, lot more than that. You have a set of beliefs which says that if you find "you" it means you have to now believe you are God, that God is the universe that we are the universe and that it is equal to cruelly beat someone to death as it is to be kind to them.

 

Yes indeed you do have a philosophy, even if you aren't aware of it. And a dangerous one at that, the New Testament warns us to not listen to.

 

 

 

 

You keep on insisting that I'm saying something akin to: If I am one with God, and God is one with everybody, then God must be jack the ripper and the person you think I am. This is simply not the case. When God and Jack the ripper and the person you think I am, the person with a dangerous philsophy, are ideas and things in your dream, which I'm telling you is not real, then why talk of God being Jack the ripper and the person you think I am at all? When I'm telling you, there are no other beings, because all beings are in you. The Self alone is real.

 

 

 

 

 

Philosophik: Even those which you consider evil because they are not seperate from me--plus what does your ideas of good and evil, sin and virtue, have to do with 'that' which is beyond ideas, but at the same time ever present to witness them--the Self? Absolutely nothing. They are nothing more than concepts that describe an imaginary world i

 

No the sinful nature is reality, and I didn't invent what the bible teaches us, it was written thousands of years ago and accurately describes the state of man. If you reject Christianity that's fine, but don't pretend I invented it as though sin is some minor matter to a Christian, some trick he is playing on himself. Christ came to wipe away our sin, that is what the cross is all about. Did I invent that too?

 

 

 

 

Your world is of your own making. Everything you think is true about your world becomes true in your experience because you think it's true. That is the power we all have, to see things as we want to. The problem arises when we don't realise we are seeing things that way, and think that the way we think we see things, are how things actually are. This mental process superimposes ideas onto reality and colors our perceptions with variety which we put into words, causing us to think our ideas of things is more real than reality itself. This is the nature of the dream, to see things how we think we see them and give our convictions reality, instead of reflecting the universe as it is and Being Reality by Being the Self.



#26 philosophik

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 01:01 AM

 

God's creative power comes from the Self, . . .

you might be closer to the truth than you realize.

in my opinion, gods boredom prompted him to create life along with its perpetual variety but he had to sacrifice his place to do it.
he instilled in each of us the ability to affect the direction of our species.
enough of us working together can accomplish miracles, is that a true statement?

- my opinion.

 

 

It is enough if you work alone. After all, there is only One Self, and knowing you are it is a miracle. Rediscover your real Self and see that you are life itself, always fresh and always new, completely lovable and full of love to give, never being anything in particular because everything is you. 



#27 mike the wiz

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 04:11 PM

 

 

Philo: After all, in this state there are no persons, there is only Self.

 

 

SELF: oneself, in particular:a person's essential being that distinguishes them from others, especially considered as the object of introspection or reflexive action.
"our alienation from our true selves"
synonyms: egoIoneselfpersonapersonidentity,
 

 

The definition of "self" is a person, so what you are saying is this;

 

"After all, in this state there are no persons, there is only person."

 

In logic, and indeed, very basic logic, this is a clear contradiction. How can I be myself if there is no self? 

 

 

 

Philo: Again, Being the Self is not a philosophy. You are what you are regardless of what you think you are

 

Yes but as I have said before, I can be myself without believing all of the strange beliefs you have either expressed clearly, or your philosophy implied. So your claim is not just that I need to be myself but you have said that your beliefs include;

 

- We are all God. 

- Individual people don't exist.

- We live in a dream where what we think is inaccurate kind of like the matrix.

- There is no good or evil.

- Discovering yourself will nevertheless lead to good despite it not existing.

- Be yourself even though there is no self.

 

In other words, it seems to me your philosophy has no basis in reality. All you seem to do is re-state these beliefs as though by mere utterance/assertion, all people should stop what they are doing and accept these confusing beliefs because you simply assert they are true.

 

I say it's a philosophy you have invented. You simply think you are correct - the very thing you accuse me of, you have invented this philosophy by telling yourself it's what's true.

 

 

 

Philo: understand this: Thinking you are something prevents you from Being Aware of what you are.

 

So if I think I am this "self" you say I am, then won't that prevent me from being aware of what I am? :gotcha:






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