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#221 Blitzking

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:16 PM

"but what they all have in common is that everyone goes to Heaven when they die."

Everyone? Hitler? Mao? Stalin? Hillary?
"Yes! - or are you saying that if those people genuinely repented and followed Christ that they would be denied entry into the body?"
"The key is that this transformation of the soul is possible after death, as opposed to being 'locked in place' at the time of death as believed by main-stream Christianity."
Sounds like your version destroys the idea of Faith and Free Will..
The problem is, none of this is Biblical either of course, but neither is Evolution which you probably tried to shoehorn into your religion of Christian Universalism" (Whatever that is) as well along with calling Jesus a liar about the flood of Noah and the requirement of being "Born Again"..

 
So your version is believe in this world or burn in Hell forever while God plays pussyfoots with non-believers?
 
My version doesn't destroy free will. It allows people to reap what they sow, and then offers a better existence through repentance, even after death, for God is not bound by such limitations. Why shouldn't the parable of the prodigal son carry over beyond the grave? Is your God not that powerful? Or is he just ticked off if you don't believe in this life like a whiny toddler?
 
I guess it depends on what you mean by "faith"; usually that means belief without sufficient evidence. Sure, if God purifies your heart in Hell I guess it is possible faith in that sense may not be a requirement. Faith can also mean the assurance/conviction of things hoped for, but yet not seen (Hebrews 11:1). I would not venture a guess on exactly what Hell is like in that respect, but I would imagine that the hope of being in Heaven once you have been purified is something not yet seen and something you must believe on faith in that respect.
 
Hell is not something frequently talked about in scripture, and Christian universalists will direct you to Biblical passages to support their position while leaning on the original Greek, not the clumsy English or Latin translation. Of course you can disagree when it comes to interpretation, and of course Christian universalists will disagree with your interpretation and say that the Bible is amenable to their interpretation, if not outright confirms it.
 
"Born again" is not something dismissed. What is being born again? - in simple terms it is accepting Jesus Christ into their hearts, repenting of sin, and following Christ in such a way as to be likened to being "born again". How could any of this be denied after death unless God is not all that powerful, or if God was a pouting child not willing to allow such things? So, either your God is not GOD, or your God has the morality of a pouting child.
 
It seems you don't understand the point of allegory yet.
 

Of course this is speculation but I would wager I am not far off... I have had many of these types of conversations with people who claim "I used to be a Christian" only to find that their idea of "Christianity" was quite different then what Jesus laid out for us. I invariably find "Ex Christians" people who called God a liar about HIS creation AND tried to make God conform to THEIR will instead of conforming to HIS... I immediately confronted your assertion NOT for what YOU believe as I dont care.. I only do it for OTHER PEOPLE who might read your post and get the idea that you really WERE a Christian...

Of course you will dispute what I say.. But again, this post is not for your benefit, but for any lurkers out there who need to know the truth.
"Scientists who utterly reject Evolution may be one of our fastest growing controversial minorities...Many of the scientists supporting this position hold impressive credentials in science."
(Larry Hatfield, "Educators Against Darwin," Science Digest Special)

 
Well my belief of Christianity took many evolutions; at one point I was a vanilla believer like the rest, but things didn't make any sense so I amended my beliefs, and ended up as a non-believer. Christian universalism was towards the end, but certainly a prominent motif when I could no longer accept the barbaric beliefs of main-stream Christianity. I had a choice: either believe God is an evil worse than Hitler, or a being more great than any hatred or evil that the human heart could manifest, and I chose the latter. Concepts of justice, mercy, and love are fulfilled within Christian universalism. That is a God worth laboring for - not some psychopathic maniac tormenting everyone after death because they didn't believe in the rib story with zero evidence and all the evidence in the world demonstrating it as a fairy tale.



Like I said.. My response to your post wasnt FOR you, It was to EXPOSE you to anyone who might be reading these blogs..

#222 Goku

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:17 AM

Like I said.. My response to your post wasnt FOR you, It was to EXPOSE you to anyone who might be reading these blogs..

 

Well, I honestly can't fault you when your LORD is a crazy maniacal fiend. As a Christian universalist, I believe God will grant you mercy and take you under his wing in a loving manner. I would love to talk to you in Heaven, that's what I would say, if I could force myself to believe. But I do believe if there is a God out there that he would be more kind than the God you have imagined, and he would accept your flaws and fashion them into his greatness.
 

My only hope is that you experience the joy of knowing the true God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob; the true God of knowledge and mercy, and that which will never forsake you for an immature decision. May you be blessed for all your days.



#223 Blitzking

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 01:35 AM

 

Like I said.. My response to your post wasnt FOR you, It was to EXPOSE you to anyone who might be reading these blogs..

 

Well, I honestly can't fault you when your LORD is a crazy maniacal fiend. As a Christian universalist, I believe God will grant you mercy and take you under his wing in a loving manner. I would love to talk to you in Heaven, that's what I would say, if I could force myself to believe. But I do believe if there is a God out there that he would be more kind than the God you have imagined, and he would accept your flaws and fashion them into his greatness.
 

My only hope is that you experience the joy of knowing the true God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob; the true God of knowledge and mercy, and that which will never forsake you for an immature decision. May you be blessed for all your days.

 

 

                                                                                                                                                                        "As a Christian universalist," I believe...

 

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                                                                                                                       Hmm.. Looks like "Christian Universalist" is the same as an Atheist.. Just what I suspected all along..

                                                                                                                                    

                                                                                                                                                                           Jesus warned us for a reason...

 

 

                                                                                                              15Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.

                                                                                                             16By their fruit you will recognize them. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 

                                                                                                                       17Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.…Matt 7



#224 Goku

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 02:30 AM

 


 

                                                                                                                                                                        "As a Christian universalist," I believe...

 

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                                                                                                                       Hmm.. Looks like "Christian Universalist" is the same as an Atheist.. Just what I suspected all along..

                                                                                                                                    

                                                                                                                                                                           Jesus warned us for a reason...

 

 

                                                                                                              15Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.

                                                                                                             16By their  you will recognize them. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 

                                                                                                                       17Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.…Matt 7

 

 

 

Are you that confused that you need the Lord's blessing to understand that my answer is that of an atheist and not of a believer, wow, you must really be hurting. My apologies for making you utilize your cognitive powers. You do understand that my "Christian universalism" is before my atheism, right?



#225 Mike Summers

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:39 AM

Goku said:

Are you that confused that you need the Lord's blessing to understand that my answer is that of an atheist and not of a believer, wow, you must really be hurting. My apologies for making you utilize your cognitive a there is one!powers. You do understand that my "Christian universalism" is before my atheism, right?

Wrong, You are a believer--in the idea that you think you have god like qualities. Anyone can create a belief and then choose to believe it. We all do that! You created the idea there is no God. And I created the idea there is one. You are not going to out create me because we are equalls. Creativity is our commonalit
and bottom linne!

I would imagine you think anyone that differs with you is wrong. But I accept that you exist and am not agnostic about it. I do not believe you have the capacity to determine who can't exist which is why I contend you attribute to yourself qualities of the being you claim does not exist!


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