Jump to content


How does intelligence evolve?


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
47 replies to this topic

#41 lionheart209

lionheart209

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 107 posts
  • Age: 32
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Lodi, Ca

Posted 16 March 2005 - 07:04 PM

Since you seem to be claiming a scriptural basis for this, would you be so kind as to reference the passages you have in mind? With the possible exception of  the serpent, I can't think of anything that suggests that Adam's fall would result in a 'deterioration' of other life forms.

View Post


The first universal judgment was at the event known as the Fall, described in Genesis 3. The reason was the deliberate disobedience of Adam and Eve to the specific instruction of God that they were not to eat from the tree in the Garden of Eden called the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:17). When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, the effects for them included knowledge of sin, experience of guilt, loss of holiness, fear of God, forfeiture of fellowship with God, and feelings of embarrassment towards each other. And, above and beyond these consequential effects, there was the specific pronouncement of judgment by God, sometimes called ‘the curse’.

This contained both spiritual and physical dimensions, not only for Adam and Eve, but also for their descendants, that is, for all mankind. Spiritually, they were from then on cut off from God, so that on that day they died spiritually. Physically, their human bodies began to die and would eventually ‘return to dust’, Eve was told that child-bearing would be a matter of ‘sorrow’ and that her husband would rule over her, the ground was cursed so that Adam’s work from then on would be hard labour, and they were cast out of the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:16–24).

thanX <><

Louie Buren

#42 Guest_Calipithecus_*

Guest_Calipithecus_*
  • Guests

Posted 17 March 2005 - 12:33 AM

Yes, yes. But how does any of that translate to:

"Life is deteriorating not evolving"

?

#43 lionheart209

lionheart209

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 107 posts
  • Age: 32
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Lodi, Ca

Posted 17 March 2005 - 09:36 AM

Yes, yes. But how does any of that translate to:

"Life is deteriorating not evolving"

?

View Post


How does it translate?
Its being observed, nothings evolving, but we can see everything deteriorating.
Nothing happens within our genetic structures that cause beneficial changes in our species type.

And to address someones quote of"individuals don't evolve only races do".
Thats just lame.
You would have to see the evolution somewhere along the line within people.

This is comparible to the no transitional fossils ever being found.

Give it up folks, theres no way to hold onto your integrity when you believe in evolution and everyone around you knows its problems and how incorrect it is.


ThanX
Louie Buren
"There is no arrogance rights in the belief of evolution, only embarrasment in your ignorance and willful blindness."--Louie Buren<><

#44 Guest_Calipithecus_*

Guest_Calipithecus_*
  • Guests

Posted 17 March 2005 - 10:56 AM

How does it translate?
Its being observed, nothings evolving, but we can see everything deteriorating.

How is everything deteriorating? Can you offer any specific examples? More importantly, do you mind if I ask you again to explain why you feel that the bible (either the passages you referenced or any others) supports your claim that 'life is deteriorating not evolving', and that this was the result of Adam's fall from grace?


And to address someones quote of"individuals don't evolve only races do".
You would have to see the evolution somewhere along the line within people.

View Post

I won't argue with that, provided that we can agree that evolving. in this context, is used in a metaphorical sense.

#45 lionheart209

lionheart209

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 107 posts
  • Age: 32
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Lodi, Ca

Posted 20 March 2005 - 05:33 PM

How is everything deteriorating? Can you offer any specific examples? More importantly, do you mind if I ask you again to explain why you feel that the bible (either the passages you referenced or any others) supports your claim that 'life is deteriorating not evolving', and that this was the result of Adam's fall from grace?
I won't argue with that, provided that we can agree that evolving. in this context, is used in a metaphorical sense.

View Post


The bible supports the fact that everything is deteriorating because this unlike evolution can be observed, What happens to us today as we live? mutations cause us to age and ultimately die, this is one example of life deteriorating, take the sun for another example, In 1979, scientists Eddy and Boornazian cautiously announced that their studies of solar measurement records from Greenwich Observatory in England, and the US Naval Observatory in Washington, conclusively showed that the sun was shrinking. Its diameter was decreasing at a rate of almost six feet per hour.

This is another example of deterioration, some evolutionists try to argue that the sun is shrinking at a slow rate, so slow that it wouldn't have been to large to cause life to not be able to exist on Earth billions of years ago. This link is a must read for those who agree with that evolutionary claim shrinking sun

The reason I say the deterioration occurs because of Adams fall from grace is because Genesis states that in the beginning God created everything very good, this means he created it perfectly without flaw, man was to live forever, animals were vegetarian including dinosaurs. etc.
Its not logical to say God created a world full of death and suffering(evolution) and called it very good.

This phrase sums up the true history of death, as recorded in Genesis, the first book of the Bible. God originally created a perfect world, described by God as ‘very good’ (Genesis 1:31). People and animals ate plants, not other animals (Genesis 1:29–30). There was no violence or pain in this ‘very good’ world.

But this sinless world was marred by the rebellion of the first man, Adam. His sin brought an intruder into the world—death. God had to judge sin with death, as He warned Adam He would (Genesis 2:17, cf. 3:19).

Indeed, God apparently caused the first death in the world—an animal was slain to make clothing for Adam and Eve (Genesis 3:21). As a result of God’s judgment on the world, God has given us a taste of life without Him—a world that is running down—a world full of death and suffering. As Romans 8:22 says, ‘the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs’—because God Himself subjected the creation to processes of decay.

Implications about suffering, if you accept this view of history.
How can we find a God of love amidst the groaning of this world? By understanding the Genesis account of the Fall, we know that we are looking at a fallen, cursed world. From the Bible’s perspective of history, death is an enemy, not an ally. In 1 Corinthians 15:26, the Apostle Paul describes death as the ‘last enemy.’ Death was not a part of God’s original creation, which truly was ‘very good.’ Based on a straightforward reading of the Genesis account, history can be represented by the following diagram:Posted Image

Death and suffering is the penalty for sin. When Adam rebelled against God, in effect he was saying that he wanted life without God. He wanted to decide truth for himself, independent of God. Now the Bible tells us that Adam was the head of the human race, representing each one of us, who are his descendants. Paul says in Romans 5:12–19 that we sin ‘in Adam,’ after the likeness of Adam. In other words, we have the same problem Adam had. When Adam rebelled against God, all human beings, represented by Adam, effectively said that they wanted life without God.

God had to judge Adam’s sin with death. He had already warned Adam that if he sinned, he would ‘surely die.’ After Adam’s Fall, he and all his descendants forfeited the right to live. After all, God is the author of life. Death is the natural penalty of choosing life without God, the giver of life. Also, because the Lord is holy and just, there had to be a penalty for rebellion.

The Bible makes it clear that death is the penalty for our sin, not just the sin of Adam. If you accept the Bible’s account of history, then our sins—not just the sins of ‘the other guy’—are responsible for all the death and suffering in the world! In other words, it is really our fault that the world is the way it is. No-one is really ‘innocent.’

ThanX,in him, Louie Buren <><
source of some of this content.

#46 DonH

DonH

    Newcomer

  • Banned
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Age: 48
  • Christian
  • Creationist
  • Hawaii

Posted 21 March 2005 - 12:42 PM

So how do things like eating, breathing, heart beating etc etc evolve?

We know that learned traits do not get passed on genetically so how do such things become genetic?

#47 chance

chance

    Veteran Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,029 posts
  • Age: 51
  • no affiliation
  • Atheist
  • Australia

Posted 21 March 2005 - 01:50 PM

So how do things like eating, breathing, heart beating etc etc evolve?

We know that learned traits do not get passed on genetically so how do such things become genetic?

View Post


Like any trait that is subject to evolution (mutation – survivability – reproduction) Learned traits as you correctly observed do not pass from generation to generation, the genetic bit is in the capacity of our intelligence to learn, this is the trait that is passed on. E.g. if identical wtins were separated at birth and raised in different cultures, they would speak different languages yet have inherited all the traits to learn and reproduce speech.

#48 lionheart209

lionheart209

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 107 posts
  • Age: 32
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Lodi, Ca

Posted 21 March 2005 - 07:27 PM

So how do things like eating, breathing, heart beating etc etc evolve?

We know that learned traits do not get passed on genetically so how do such things become genetic?

View Post


These are involuntary actions of our body, that function by themselves for the most part on behalf of the over all functioning of our body, there is no evolution involved, its all God's design.

ThanX




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users