Questions For Any Creationist/young Earther.

[thistle 2]

 

There is plenty of evidence that the supernatural exists. Where have you been? What have you been reading....or should I say not reading?

 

I have seen the supernatural on a number of occasions, with witnesses. I have catalogued and recorded many also. I am by no means alone. Besides that, I have seen the Lord answer prayer many times, including prayers in which I made privately and no one knew (except God) what it was I was praying for; yet the answers came in detail.

 

You statements are therefore irrelevant to those of us who have experienced the supernatural power of God.

I'm not sure your personal faith and I'm sure honest belief that prayers have been answered qualify as evidence of the supernatural. The supernatural may exist, I am not aware of the evidence for it. I agree there are many claims.

 

But if we are going to use science based on evidence, eg conservation of mass, which has the weight of majority scientific agreement and consensus behind it, as a component of an argument that we should accept a supernatural origin for the universe, then surely we also need the same weight of scientific evidence and some agreement and consensus amongst the scientific community that the supernatural even exists?

 

The scientific method surely can't concern itself with the supernatural, as the supernatural cannot be measured and proven (in as much as science ever proves definitively).

 

All we can really ever say about the supernatural is yes, it's theoretically possible there is a supernatural being or beings and they can change/ignore/rewrite the laws of nature. But if they can, why even discuss science at all?

[Calypsis4 640]

 

Done is right. Bye bye.

 

Good for you, bony.

[thistle 2]

 

Look, the Word of God is enough for anyone who has a conscience that is willing to listen to the Holy Spirit. He always tells people who read it that it is the truth...but if your prejudices have already been hardened (for whatever reason) then you don't choose to believe it.

That cannot possibly be enough. Calypsis, you must see that the Word of [insert a god you do not believe in] will never be enough for you. I just see no evidence for or believe in your particular God, as you would the claims of a believer in a different deity.

 

I have a conscience. It's somewhat insulting to be accused of not having one because I happen not to be convinced by the words in the Bible.

 

Your words suggest you must be right, and if I disagree, I'm just not trying hard enough.

 

I absolutely could be wrong about the supernatural, but there appears no evidence for it. A supernatural God could convince us all quite quickly I imagine.

[Calypsis4 640]

I'm not sure your personal faith and I'm sure honest belief that prayers have been answered qualify as evidence of the supernatural. The supernatural may exist, I am not aware of the evidence for it. I agree there are many claims.

 

But if we are going to use science based on evidence, eg conservation of mass, which has the weight of majority scientific agreement and consensus behind it, as a component of an argument that we should accept a supernatural origin for the universe, then surely we also need the same weight of scientific evidence and some agreement and consensus amongst the scientific community that the supernatural even exists?

 

The scientific method surely can't concern itself with the supernatural, as the supernatural cannot be measured and proven (in as much as science ever proves definitively).

 

All we can really ever say about the supernatural is yes, it's theoretically possible there is a supernatural being or beings and they can change/ignore/rewrite the laws of nature. But if they can, why even discuss science at all?

 

Since you won't believe us, then view the video clips I provided above and answer the questions I placed on the magic stuff. Try to establish it was all just sleight-of-hand.

[Calypsis4 640]

thistle:

 

 

That cannot possibly be enough. Calypsis, you must see that the Word of [insert a god you do not believe in] will never be enough for you. I just see no evidence for or believe in your particular God, as you would the claims of a believer in a different deity.

 

No, I don't agree.I believed in the Lord when I was 16 yrs of age long before I ever saw a single miracle or supernatural act...just like most Christians. But you see, I had a tender conscience and I was willing to believe, so when the Holy Spirit emphasized to my mind that I was reading the very Word and mind of God I knew it was true even before I had outward supernatural evidence.Since then I have accumulated a great deal of evidence, supernatural and otherwise.

 

I have a conscience. It's somewhat insulting to be accused of not having one because I happen not to be convinced by the words in the Bible.

 

View the information I have provided on this thread including the one about the resurrection of Jeff Markham from the dead in Florida years ago. He's still alive.

 

Your words suggest you must be right, and if I disagree, I'm just not trying hard enough.

 

No, it is not that I AM RIGHT........it is God's Word that is right; right, truthful, and accurate. I just happen to agree.

 

I absolutely could be wrong about the supernatural, but there appears no evidence for it. A supernatural God could convince us all quite quickly I imagine.

 

View the clips I provided please.

 

Best wishes.

[Calypsis4 640]

The Bible says that Jesus fed the people by breaking bread and bringing forth fish. It was a miracle that He created out of five loaves of bread and two fishes.Mark 6:41:44.

 

Now view this and tell us how this fellow did it:

 

[nonaffiated 27]

 

 

8. A good topic would be to examine the limits of supernatural phenomena, or the proverbial, "why can't God heal amputies?"

Indeed, that would be a good topic. I can give you a quick answer to the second part of your qeustion though: because then Satan would claim that he should be able to make amputees. I mean, we've all heard about curses that involve bad luck and such. But can you imagine if one morning you just woke up without an arm? And the reason would be that someone in your college class happened to be a satanic worshipper whom you occasionally insulted. That would make one f*cked up world. So you should thank God for not healing amputees.

 

 

Since you won't believe us, then view the video clips I provided above and answer the questions I placed on the magic stuff. Try to establish it was all just sleight-of-hand.

 

Thanks guys, I think I'm done with this thread.

[Calypsis4 640]

 

 

 

Thanks guys, I think I'm done with this thread.

 

Ooooooh. K.

[usafjay1976 47]

No, that doesn't follow. We don't have any evidence that the supernatural itself even exists. So attributing a catchall supernatural cause to any issue we don't yet understand doesn't make sense, to me at least. And science can't take the supernatural into account, so to use a scientific law to try to prove the supernatural also doesn't make sense. To me :-)

 

Do you have empirical evidence that life arose from non life? Do you have empirical evidence of abiogenesis? Attributing a catchall 'natural' cause to any issue we don't understand doesn't make sense, to me at least.

[popoi 1,078]

For those of you who won't believe in God's miracles....will you believe in demonic miracles? (Revelation 16:14)

Probably not!

 

Explain to the other readers how these magic workers were able to stick metal pins through their bodies without injury or without blood?

Not sure, but a more detailed analysis by someone a little more qualified than Ricky Gervais might be useful in figuring out how it works. My suspicion is it works pretty much like a standard body piercing.

 

Explain how the Philipino man chewed and swallowed hot burning wood and why his eyes were demonic and snake-like.

This one most likely works in a similar way to fire walking. Mostly burned wood with some embers isn't as hot as it may look. Between the moisture of his mouth, the air he sucks in, and whatever other preparation he may have done, it could easily cool quickly enough to do little to no damage. Or maybe it did do some damage and the dude is just hardcore. Either way, I think there are a few more likely options than demonic powers.

[Calypsis4 640]

popoi:

 

 

Probably not!

 

Probably not? Hmm, you seem to be unsure of everything...except that God and the supernatural does not exist.

Not sure, but a more detailed analysis by someone a little more qualified than Ricky Gervais might be useful in figuring out how it works. My suspicion is it works pretty much like a standard body piercing.

 

Really? Then go try and do it yourself...without injury, without shedding blood. And if not you, then one of your brave atheist comrades.

This one most likely works in a similar way to fire walking. Mostly burned wood with some embers isn't as hot as it may look. Between the moisture of his mouth, the air he sucks in, and whatever other preparation he may have done, it could easily cool quickly enough to do little to no damage. Or maybe it did do some damage and the dude is just hardcore. Either way, I think there are a few more likely options than demonic powers.

 

Do you think if you saw it happen to one of your acquaintances right in front of you...no special effects allowed...that it might convince you?

 

Then demonstrate it as I suggested above. Do it yourself or get a volunteer.

 

But before you do that know this....that as a counselor with 30 yrs experience I have literally seen a womans arm bitten by invisible teeth, in action, and the blood came forth from each bite mark. Her husband and sister-in-law were with me as we held her arm and prayed for the torment to stop. It did, but the teeth marks and blood remained.

[nmp9463 9]

The Bible says that Jesus fed the people by breaking bread and bringing forth fish. It was a miracle that He created out of five loaves of bread and two fishes.Mark 6:41:44.

 

Now view this and tell us how this fellow did it:

 

This one's known to be staged.

[thistle 2]

The Bible says that Jesus fed the people by breaking bread and bringing forth fish. It was a miracle that He created out of five loaves of bread and two fishes.Mark 6:41:44.

 

Now view this and tell us how this fellow did it:

 

He's a member of The Magic Circle, he's a tv magician from the north of England. There is no magic, or religion, involved. Just clever tricks. He's very good though.

 

"I call myself an entertainer. I don't perform magic," Dynamo says of his act. "What you see and how your mind perceives it is the magic. Without the spectator there is no magic, it doesn't exist."

 

[Calypsis4 640]

He's a member of The Magic Circle, he's a tv magician from the north of England. There is no magic, or religion, involved. Just clever tricks. He's very good though.

 

 

Excuse me? I said................explain it, please. Give a natural explanation to what he did, step-by-step.

 

I know of several 'magic circles' and they are all witchcraft oriented and practice supernatural magic; not for money.

[Calypsis4 640]

This one's known to be staged.

 

 

Explain how he did it. If staged then bring forth the evidence. We are not closed to such a possibility.

 

Then backtrack to the other clips and explain how the two men seen plunging metal needles through their arms and/or body without pain, injury, or blood.

[nmp9463 9]

 

 

Explain how he did it. If staged then bring forth the evidence. We are not closed to such a possibility.

 

Then backtrack to the other clips and explain how the two men seen plunging metal needles through their arms and/or body without pain, injury, or blood.

 

Don't get me wrong. I do believe there really are supernatural occurrences, but this guy is known to be fake. Are you aware that a lot of magic tricks aren't even performed live, that is they are done using filmmaking techniques, including editing and stooges? I think saying that that fish bucket trick is real is really making us Creationists look incredibly gullible.

[popoi 1,078]

Really? Then go try and do it yourself...without injury, without shedding blood. And if not you, then one of your brave atheist comrades.

Would that actually convince you, or is this you trying to shut down criticism of your examples without actually addressing it?

 

Either way, my level of interest in piercing myself is surprisingly low!

 

Do you think if you saw it happen to one of your acquaintances right in front of you...no special effects allowed...that it might convince you?

Probably not. I suspect my process would go something like "Wow, are you ok?" -> "How did you do that?", rather than "GET AWAY FROM ME DEMON!" -> "Wait, don't you have anything better to do with your demon powers than parlor tricks?"

 

But before you do that know this....that as a counselor with 30 yrs experience I have literally seen a womans arm bitten by invisible teeth, in action, and the blood came forth from each bite mark. Her husband and sister-in-law were with me as we held her arm and prayed for the torment to stop. It did, but the teeth marks and blood remained.

Other people claim to have seen Bigfoot, or UFOs, or the reptilian that replaced George Bush. What am I supposed to do with "I totally saw this thing one time, but don't have/won't show any evidence"?

[thistle 2]

 

Do you have empirical evidence that life arose from non life? Do you have empirical evidence of abiogenesis? Attributing a catchall 'natural' cause to any issue we don't understand doesn't make sense, to me at least.

Nope, I don't have any evidence that life arose from non life. As I said before to Calypsis, we don't know (yet) is a perfectly reasonable answer. Of course science is looking for a natural cause because science must deal with the natural, not the supernatural. If evidence and logic aren't required in science, and they wouldnt be necessary if science could assume the supernatural, then science would be defunct.

[thistle 2]

 

Excuse me? I said................explain it, please. Give a natural explanation to what he did, step-by-step.

 

I know of several 'magic circles' and they are all witchcraft oriented and practice supernatural magic; not for money.

Seriously? He's an entertainer, if it were easy to explain it wouldn't be much of a trick, and he wouldn't be successful. I can't even explain how people do simple card tricks or pull coins from behind childrens ears

[thistle 2]

I'm very very unlikely to ever recommend the Daily Mail, horrible paper that it is, but in this case if you want explanations for some of Dynamo's tricks:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2347697/How-DOES-Dynamo-Illusionist-Steven-Frayne-novel-way-catching-bus.html

[Calypsis4 640]

Seriously? He's an entertainer, if it were easy to explain it wouldn't be much of a trick, and he wouldn't be successful. I can't even explain how people do simple card tricks or pull coins from behind childrens ears

 

That's right. You can't explain it because in some of his tricks the supernatural is involved and he isn't going to admit that..but it is obvious to those of us who have seen it in person.

 

He's a lot more than an entertainer, friend. Like David Copperfield who admitted that he has a personal library of over 14,000 books on the occult and witchcraft. Why would someone who does mere illusion be interested in supernatural witchcraft? Think about it.

[thistle 2]

 

That's right. You can't explain it because in some of his tricks the supernatural is involved and he isn't going to admit that..but it is obvious to those of us who have seen it in person.

 

He's a lot more than an entertainer, friend. Like David Copperfield who admitted that he has a personal library of over 14,000 books on the occult and witchcraft.

Okay. Where is the evidence the supernatural is involved?

 

(the point is I can't explain card tricks, but they are just tricks too)

[Calypsis4 640]

Nope, I don't have any evidence that life arose from non life. As I said before to Calypsis, we don't know (yet) is a perfectly reasonable answer. Of course science is looking for a natural cause because science must deal with the natural, not the supernatural. If evidence and logic aren't required in science, and they wouldnt be necessary if science could assume the supernatural, then science would be defunct.

 

Then keep looking...but you will be looking in vain for the rest of your life because nature cannot create life. It only does what God programmed it to do.

 

No, science would not be defunct. I believe in a supernatural Creator and have taught basic science for 26 yrs. And I am just one among many tens of thousands of creationists in the world of science.

[Calypsis4 640]

Okay. Where is the evidence the supernatural is involved?

 

Are you kidding me? You just saw it right in front of your face in several different clips. You mean you can't tell the difference between sleight-of-hand trickery and the real deal?

[Calypsis4 640]

I have to leave to teach a lesson this evening. Back later.