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What Do The Masses Really Believe?


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#21 Guest_Tommy_*

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 07:22 PM

know what's funny.  I'm 48 years old.  When I wa sa kid in the 60's, the news used to talk about TASS the propagandist, atheistic (communistic) press of Russia.  But I just read a paper from a Russian geological team studying the formations in the Crimean Pennensula.  They are creationists.  Is it the other way around now?  Maybe TASS of '65 could be the CNN of 2010! :)

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Is there a translation of the paper on-line? I would be interested to know where the Soviets were coming from on this as their historical reputation was resolutely secular.

#22 philosophik

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 11:38 PM

You might have a point there on the Bibles.  The problem is that most people don't read them, including Christians ;)

Most watch the TV, which is predominately going with evolution  -at least the news and  government officials.  So it's an information war really.

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I can't argue there, it's not like the bible is a riveting read to most people. However, it has to be the most published book of all time. Anyone who wants one, in many cases, can get it for free. But I agree with you about television. It is predominately pro evolution aside from the evangelicals who preach in the wee hours of the morning. But who stays up to watch that? Not many. But then again most people don't turn to television in order to decide which side of the fence they are sitting on. But the way I look at it, both sides hold equal ground when it comes to education. Although I am a proponent of evolution, I think it is healthy for kids to know both positions and for them to decide for themselves which will work for them.

#23 Bex

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 02:06 AM

I can't argue there, it's not like the bible is a riveting read to most people. However, it has to be the most published book of all time. Anyone who wants one, in many cases, can get it for free. But I agree with you about television. It is predominately pro evolution aside from the evangelicals who preach in the wee hours of the morning. But who stays up to watch that? Not many. But then again most people don't turn to television in order to decide which side of the fence they are sitting on. But the way I look at it, both sides hold equal ground when it comes to education. Although I am a proponent of evolution, I think it is healthy for kids to know both positions and for them to decide for themselves which will work for them.

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Not riveting? The creation of the world and mankind, the fall, Noah's flood, Sodom and Gommorah, the birth of Christ from a virgin, the miracles, the crucifixion, the ressurection, revelation and much more besides .....

I can almost see God ;) "There's no pleasing some people"!

#24 gilbo12345

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 02:08 AM

Evolution is obviously a theory, why put the word in quotes?

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Actually there is debate about that. My lectuer today said about 15 times that evolution is a "fact" and that it is "true"... Yet the lecturer I had last week said that evolution is a theory, and you cannot technically prove a theory... Only support it..

Hmm.. Just some food for thought ;)

#25 Cassiterides

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 06:08 AM

But I agree with you about television. It is predominately pro evolution


It is, however no single theory is ever put forward. Evolutionists are at war with themselves more than with creationists, for example i recently watched about 5 minutes of an evolution doctumentary about the origins of man, the clip showed one scientist arguing with another (quite strongly and harshly) over the Out Of Africa hypothesis Vs. the Multi-regional hypothesis. Both scientists were evolutionists but were calling each other ''wrong''.

The theory of evolution just seems to be in a great mess, evolutionists themselves can't even agree.

#26 gilbo12345

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 07:13 AM

It is, however no single theory is ever put forward. Evolutionists are at war with themselves more than with creationists, for example i recently watched about 5 minutes of an evolution doctumentary about the origins of man, the clip showed one scientist  arguing with another (quite strongly and harshly) over the Out Of Africa hypothesis Vs. the Multi-regional hypothesis. Both scientists were evolutionists but were calling each other ''wrong''.

The theory of evolution just seems to be in a great mess, evolutionists themselves can't even agree.

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Perhaps they were both right in that instance ;)

Yes, it seems that with the very liberal stance taken on evidence for evolution, it leaves a big gap for personal interpretation...

Can anyone say, denominations of evolution? ;)

#27 pdw709

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 08:38 AM

As the title says, what do the masses believe regarding our origins?

Although you hear evolutionists repeating their propaganda that the levels for support for creationism is low and that anti-evolution views are only held onto by 'religious fundamentalists' this could not be further from the truth.


Getting back to the original thread, I'm not entirely sure of the relevence of what "the masses think". The truth is not something that can be changed with majority public opinion.

#28 philosophik

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 03:28 PM

Not riveting? The creation of the world and mankind, the fall, Noah's flood, Sodom and Gommorah, the birth of Christ from a virgin, the miracles, the crucifixion, the ressurection, revelation and much more besides .....

I can almost see God  :rolleyes:  "There's no pleasing some people"!

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Ok, touche. I guess if you've already heard of the good parts the rest of it is somewhat of a bore, plus the language of it all can be tough to digest. But you do have a point, some of the stories are fascinating, while most, quite frankly, are not. But then again it's all a matter of opinion, and like AFJ said most people don't read the bible, even Christians. I let you draw your own conclusions about that statement concerning the bible.

#29 philosophik

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 03:39 PM

It is, however no single theory is ever put forward. Evolutionists are at war with themselves more than with creationists, for example i recently watched about 5 minutes of an evolution doctumentary about the origins of man, the clip showed one scientist  arguing with another (quite strongly and harshly) over the Out Of Africa hypothesis Vs. the Multi-regional hypothesis. Both scientists were evolutionists but were calling each other ''wrong''.

The theory of evolution just seems to be in a great mess, evolutionists themselves can't even agree.

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I couldn't agree more. Evolution started out as mess and what scientist are trying to do is clean it up. Sure there are conflicting theories, but it doesn't mean every one is wrong. Of course it doesn't mean any of them are right. But that is what the job of science is, to form a universally coherent explanation concerning the matter. Remember, evolutionary science is still young; and a few hundred years of research to explain billions of years of history is hardly enough. The discovery of methods to research DNA isn't even a hundred years old, and that is a very important tool. You don't start a journey of discovery at your destination, it takes time to reach it. Especially if your walking in circles, however, all it takes is one brilliant mind or one monumental discovery to formulate a direct path to the answer. Are we there yet? Absolutely not. But it's to early to emphatically declare we are headed in the wrong direction.

#30 Bex

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 05:55 PM

Ok, touche. I guess if you've already heard of the good parts the rest of it is somewhat of a bore, plus the language of it all can be tough to digest. But you do have a point, some of the stories are fascinating, while most, quite frankly, are not. But then again it's all a matter of opinion, and like AFJ said most people don't read the bible, even Christians. I let you draw your own conclusions about that statement concerning the bible.

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Well, I hope you didn't misinterpret my post as being a jab at you, I meant it quite light heartedly. :rolleyes: I'm not much of a reader, but when I do actually pull my finger out and read some of the bible, I realise what I've missed. I just don't read it enough! I am familiar with it yes, but not as much as some people I know!

But on a serious note. You are quite right. So often people are too busy with wordly cares, and even trivia, rather than making enough time for God. I'm guilty of it also. I personally find, as a believer, that when I make time for God, even if it's small, I note increased inner strength, faith and the grace to do better.

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 05:35 PM

What form or theory of evolution do/would you approve of?

Darwinian
Lamarckism
Baldwinian

Cooperative eye hypothesis
Hunting hypothesis
Endurance running hypothesis
Grandmother hypothesis
Patriarch Hypothesis
EICA Hypothesis
Saltation Theory

Aquatic ape hypothesis
Out Of Africa hypothesis
Multi-regional hypothesis

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What's wrong with modern evolutionary theory???

#32 gilbo12345

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 06:21 PM

What's wrong with modern evolutionary theory???

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I think the question is which flavour, (denomination) did you want to believe in?

#33 jason777

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 06:54 PM

Getting back to the original thread, I'm not entirely sure of the relevence of what "the masses think". The truth is not something that can be changed with majority public opinion.

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The majority is being swayed by the evidence not their opinions. Back during the age of biological ignorance, the majority believed in junk DNA, vestigal organs, incomplete fossil record, etc. Now that those hypotheses have been tested and falsified people are starting to see that creation is the most likely explanation.

#34 jason777

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 07:00 PM

What's wrong with modern evolutionary theory???

I think the question is which flavour, (denomination) did you want to believe in?


Exactly; Are you an ancestor of a chimp or an orangutan? :P


http://www.eurekaler...p-hrt061709.php




Enjoy.

#35 Cassiterides

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 07:15 PM

Exactly; Are you an ancestor of a chimp or an orangutan? :P
http://www.eurekaler...p-hrt061709.php
Enjoy.

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Nice link. Another:

Bird-from-Dinosaur Theory of Evolution Challenged

http://www.scienceda...00209183335.htm
http://www.scienceag...trunc_sys.shtml

''A new study just published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences provides yet more evidence that birds did not descend from ground-dwelling theropod dinosaurs, experts say, and continues to challenge decades of accepted theories about the evolution of flight.''

''New findings challenge long-held assumptions about flightless bird evolution''

While many evolutionists have suddenly changed their minds on this and now deny birds evolved from dinosaurs, you still have some who do.

It's hard to understand what evolutionists believe when they aren't in agreement themselves and change their minds every few years.

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 07:17 PM

Exactly; Are you an ancestor of a chimp or an orangutan? :P
http://www.eurekaler...p-hrt061709.php
Enjoy.

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The article states the orangutan might be related, like a cousin, not our ancestor.

#37 philosophik

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 02:31 AM

Well, I hope you didn't misinterpret my post as being a jab at you, I meant it quite light heartedly.  :P I'm not much of a reader,  but when I do actually pull my finger out and read some of the bible,  I realise what I've missed. I just don't read it enough!  I am familiar with it yes, but not as much as some people I know!

But on a serious note.  You are quite right. So often people are too busy with wordly cares, and even trivia, rather than making enough time for God.  I'm guilty of it also.  I personally find, as a believer, that when I make time for God, even if it's small, I note increased inner strength, faith and the grace to do better.

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Good for you, any thing that makes you a better person is well worth doing. If you find that being a believer does that for you, then by all means that is the path worth taking. As a non believer, I commend those who use their religious faith to do good. The only problem I find with believers, and it's not so much a problem as it is a pet peeve, is when they claim their path is the only way. There is more than one way to approach enlightenment.

#38 Bex

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 03:53 AM

Good for you, any thing that makes you a better person is well worth doing. If you find that being a believer does that for you, then by all means that is the path worth taking. As a non believer, I commend those who use their religious faith to do good. The only problem I find with believers, and it's not so much a problem as it is a pet peeve, is when they claim their path is the only way. There is more than one way to approach enlightenment.

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Well true, but remember, who made such a claim about being the only path? Christ Himself "I am THE way, THE truth and THE life", He did not say "I am, A way, A truth and A life". There is one path, and it is through Jesus Christ. Either we believe He is whom He said He is (the light of the world), or we do not. Christ is very clear on this. There isn't any fence sitting or juggling or smorgus board pickings, either we are for Him or we are against Him. And if that is your pet peeve? Then you would not like Christ very much or what He had to say about that. I'm not going to start denying His words or watering them down to please others.

For those who believe in Jesus Christ, know He is the only way. If I didn't believe that, then I would not be sincere in my belief of Christ and His word, so why claim to be Christian?

Those who sincerely seek the truth, WILL find it, even if their journey differs from another to get there.

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 11:28 AM

I think the question is which flavour, (denomination) did you want to believe in?

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The most current flavor which accounts for the most data. There's nothing wrong with something being changed or revised.

#40 jason777

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 11:43 AM

The most current flavor which accounts for the most data.  There's nothing wrong with something being changed or revised.

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The point is that once new data is gathered some scientists prefer the old flavor anyway. The two links he and I gave were both good examples that show how the current theory is preferred over the new data that overturns the old data.



Thanks.




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