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Refuting False Gospels


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#1 JayShel

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 08:12 PM

I was reading around on the internet and ran across this little tangled web written by an atheist. Tactic #1 Attack the foundation. But actually the Rock of our Salvation is more durable than "Reality" seems to understand.


Reality
Only for the those interested in a religious update:
And only for the newbies:

  • New Torah For Modern Minds
Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.
Such startling propositions – the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years – have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity – until now.
The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine document. “
2. Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations (or “mythicizing” from P, M, M, L and J) and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Ludemann, Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, ) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.
The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.
February 6, 2012 at 9:38 am




There are a lot of historical revisionists popping up wanting fame and glory, maybe even money. Let us examine these claims to see if the claims hold up:
  • Using words such as “probably” and “likely” are no mistake. This is because these “archaeologists” have proven no such thing, but historical revisionists (opportunists) are popping up to rewrite history as they see fit, for fame and fortune. Jesus claimed to be God and referred to these passages as literal history, but this person knows this, so he had to attack Jesus next.
  • His main point is that Jesus must have been crazy/hallucinating. I don’t know about you, but if I were following someone claiming to be God, and his “miracles” turned out to be not real miracles, then I would not continue following this person around. A town is going to know if someone has not walked all their life, or not talked all their life, yet these are the people that Jesus healed. It is impossible to fake heal someone so high profile as that. Most people in the village would know it.

    The disciples reported that not only did these miracles happen, but thousands of people were witness to them. A great many historians would have quickly picked up the story if an eyewitness told them that Jesus’s miracles were fake. Strangely enough, these claims start to surface hundreds of years after Jesus’s death, when witnesses were no longer around to dispute such claims.

    A modern illusionist has tried to recreate Jesus’s miracles such as walking on water:

One segment questions whether Jesus could have hypnotized a large crowd to convince them he had multiplied bread and fish to feed everyone. In another, Gill sloshes across sandbars in the Sea of Galilee to see if Jesus could have appeared to walk on water by staying in the shallows.
In each case, the conclusion is that Jesus probably couldn't have tricked people into believing they had witnessed a miracle.
"Is it possible? Yes, it's possible that there was some type of trick because I was able to do it," says Gill, who turned water into wine during the show. "But most of those things used technology that he wouldn't have had. We re-created walking on water, but it took three 18-wheelers full of equipment to pull it off."
http://www.deseretne...s-miracles.html


Crucifixion was a popular way for Romans to kill enemies of their empire, by the thousands in fact. There are historical accounts of thousands of people being strung up on crucifixes like telephone poles all along the road as an example of what would happen to an army that dared oppose Rome. Roman executioners got a lot of practice. An incompetent executioner would surely have been killed, so he would make sure to do it properly. The Bible recounts that Jesus was killed by one of these brutal Roman executioners, that His heart sac was pierced with a spear, causing blood and water to spill out. There was no mistaking it, Jesus was dead. His own mother and brothers witnessed it, and later became Christians, testifying that He was sinless, He was killed, and He rose again. Of all people, a mother, and brothers would know if someone had sinned in their life, or if their son/brother was switched at the last possible minute for an execution.

Now, there is no sense in worshiping a dead man. It doesn’t matter how good of a teacher is, if he claims he is God, that he is going to rise again after death, and he doesn’t, then you know he wasn’t God! That would be the time to stop preaching his name, and abandon your hope in him. The apostles DID abandon hope, but then another miracle happened.

When Jesus rose again, Thomas touched His body, and felt the scars from the beatings He had taken. There were hundreds of witnesses of Jesus appearing in the flesh after death. His own mother and brother began worshiping Christ as God. His disciples refused to stop testifying through brutal beatings and, knowing that they were serving God, and not man. His disciples testified to death that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh, and preached salvation through Him alone. These were ALL God fearing Jews, who believed in the commandments of the Old Testament, people that feared Hell if they worshiped a false god. The secular historians that later wrote about Jesus, confirmed the historical accuracy of the New Testament, despite their dislike, or sometimes, even outright hate for Christians.

So when someone comes to you with a story of “it’s probably not even true”, then you can explain to them why they are wrong, and give them the hope that you have in Jesus Christ.

Please add to my refutation if it was missing something, or post your own refutation of false gospels.

#2 supamk3speed

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 08:23 PM

That was a good read, we must always keep in mind that people will lie to push their own agenda's or to help themselves feel better by getting others to believe the same. It's strange that even if they lie to get others to believe the same, it seems to still bring them comfort. If I had to lie to get people to believe the same way I do, it would most definately not bring me comfort.

#3 JayShel

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 08:26 PM

Tactic#2: Bait and Switch. These logical inconsistencies posed by the atheist/gnostic etc are actually just attacking Christian doctrine by attempting to switch our God for another god. The Bible reveals who God is, and this person is NOT talking about the same god. Then once they do this, then they try to use logic to tear down Christianity. Notice "Jessey" uses the word "itself" to seem more enlightened and to place the Christian in an emotional state so that they don't notice the bait and switch.

Jessy the Gnostic
I will not tell you what God is for doing so will only limit God's fullest extent. Therefore, it is far easier for me to describe what God is not.

  • God is not judgmental. Doing so would mean God would have to judge itself.
  • God is not vengeful. Doing so would mean God would have to hurt itself.
  • God is not one to concern about what religion you choose. Doing so is a mere distraction.
  • God is not hateful. Doing so would mean God would have to hate itself.
February 6, 2012 at 5:04 pm


Points 1, 2, and 4 are the same, with one word changed. This is a pantheist idea of God: "God is everything", which is logically flawed, as you prove in your statements. "If God is everything" then He is sin, and destroying sin would be destroying part of himself so he won't punish sin such as murder, rape, child molestation etc. This is a false view of God. God is not sin, He wants to destroy sin. God cannot sin, so He doesn't need to judge Himself. He must give punishment for our sin or He would be unjust, unloving, and unfair.

Point 3 is false, because our sin is so horrible to God, that Jesus had to take our sins and die for us to save us from Hell. If we don't repent of our wickedness, accept Jesus' sacrifice for our sin, and accept His free gift of righteousness and grace, then we must pay for our sin for ourselves in Hell. Satan wants you to think that all religions are the same, that all paths lead to the same place. All religions point to a completely different God, and only one of them can be right. Pantheism, "God is everything", as you believe in only leads to confusion: your god is simultaneously good and evil, an ipad and a dirty diaper. Through apathy, your "god" approves of murder, rape, torture, and cannibalism. Does this make any sense?

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These are easy tactics to counter if you know what you are looking for, but they are very dangerous to those who are weak in their faith and understanding. Again please help by adding to this list as you can. Feed the sheep, shoot the wolves.

#4 ikester7579

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 09:44 PM

It's nothing new. What I find ironic is that if I truly believed something did not exist, I would not waste my time posting about it. I don't believe in ghosts and you don;t see me posting about it here or anywhere else.

Let's have a little fun with this using their logic.
  • New Ghost Stories For Modern Minds
Casper, the ghost of christmas past, probably never existed. Nor did Ghost busters. The entire movie as recounted in Hollywood probably never occurred. The same is true of the haunting of the walls of my house. etc... etc...

If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it does it make a noise? That's about like saying: When the Atom Bomb was dropped the people on the other side of the world did not hear it so it did not happen. :gigglesmile:

#5 JayShel

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 05:28 AM

You are right. The reason people attempt to deny Jesus so completely, is because they feel the condemnation of the law, and they do not want to be under God's authority, so they have to anti-Christ apologetics to make themselves fell better. I edited out part of "Reality's" post in post 1. He went on to tear at Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, etc, which I agreed with him on some points. He ended his post with this:

Then, apply the Five F rule: "First Find the Flaws, then Fix the Foundations". And finally there will be religious peace and religious awareness in the world!!!!!


Satan likes to trick people into thinking that world peace is easy, so they will spread false gospels, and try to damn as many people to hell as possible, because he wants company down there.

#6 JayShel

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 06:37 PM

Wow, the timing is perfect. At my house church that I love and, sadly, left when I moved out of state, this used to happen all the time. We would all bring a topic, and all our topics would converge to fit a specific message. The Holy Spirit has a way of emphasizing the topics to edify the Church. Praise God!

Today's creation.com article:
The Fall and the existence of other religions

#7 jason

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 05:07 AM

i meant to read that creation.com article but i havent yet.

is this site more tolerant of catholics. theres some info i want to post on catholicism that will offend catholics

#8 ikester7579

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 05:16 AM

We have no problem with your catholic info.

#9 jason

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 05:25 AM

ok. i will do some digging to be sure,as i believe that in some parts they have perverted the interpretations of the gospel and also seem to allow severe compromising.

its more relavalant to the te side as i have found many catholics i talk too to be also te's. they are sincere in their believes and dont say heretical things but dont do genesis much justice.

#10 ikester7579

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 01:53 PM

ok. i will do some digging to be sure,as i believe that in some parts they have perverted the interpretations of the gospel and also seem to allow severe compromising.

its more relavalant to the te side as i have found many catholics i talk too to be also te's. they are sincere in their believes and dont say heretical things but dont do genesis much justice.



Oh believe me they have. I could tell you stuff that would make you realize it's so bad that most are not even going to Heaven. But make sure you start a new thread on this so not to derail this one.

#11 jason

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 05:12 PM

as a man of jewish ancenstry and former jw i fully know of alot of evil done in catholicism but i prefer to find neutral sites and their own statements often damn them. yes in another thread.




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