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#1 Tubal

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 10:36 PM

I am a Seventh Day Adventist.
I believe in a young earth.
I believe in the whole Bible as historical truth.

I am so happy to have found this forum, full of people who have not yet bent their knees to baal.

#2 JayShel

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 05:51 AM

Welcome to the forum, it's nice to meet you. I am curious, how did you come about choosing Seventh Day Adventism?

#3 Tubal

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 09:27 AM

Welcome to the forum, it's nice to meet you. I am curious, how did you come about choosing Seventh Day Adventism?


I didn't choose unfortunately, I was raised in it.

#4 Calypsis4

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 02:46 PM

I didn't choose unfortunately, I was raised in it.


Welcome to the board. I was a Seventh Day Adventist nearly 40 yrs ago.

I respect Dr. Don Patton's (SDA) work greatly. Hope you enjoy your time posting here.

#5 Tubal

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 05:28 PM

Welcome to the board. I was a Seventh Day Adventist nearly 40 yrs ago.

I respect Dr. Don Patton's (SDA) work greatly. Hope you enjoy your time posting here.

May I ask why did you leave and to where did you go?

#6 JayShel

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 05:54 PM

There seems to be some contention against SDA doctrine among some Christians apologists. I don't know the full controversy.

#7 Tubal

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 06:09 PM

There seems to be some contention against SDA doctrine among some Christians apologists. I don't know the full controversy.


I'd love to know any bit at all that you do know, because if there is nothing for me to be here for I will assuredly move.
I only want to do what is right, would you keep me in the dark?

#8 JayShel

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 06:48 PM

I'd love to know any bit at all that you do know, because if there is nothing for me to be here for I will assuredly move.
I only want to do what is right, would you keep me in the dark?


The only thing I have read so far is from CARM. It is based on the teachings of Matt Slick. I do not agree with his Calvinist leanings (I will explain this in a second).

It does not seem that any of the teachings would cause anyone to lose their salvation (from what I can tell), but some teachings are Biblically unsound or debatable:

http://carm.org/reli...dventist-church
http://carm.org/esse...of-christianity
http://carm.org/reli...adventism-teach
http://carm.org/reli...dventist-church

In this last link, Matt contends with the SDA disagreeing with predestination (a Calvinist teaching). He cites Ephesians 1:1-11 for this. When I read it, it seemed to refer to God choosing to give us (humans) salvation through Jesus Christ before creation, not specific people being chosen by God to be saved before creation. I disagree with predestination, but this teaching is not key to salvation, and therefore I view it as irrelevant.

If I were you I would seek out more info about this, and pray for discernment from God. Maybe someone else here could give you more info too.

#9 Calypsis4

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 09:28 AM

May I ask why did you leave and to where did you go?

Because they taught me that observance of the Sabbath was the final proof of a persons salvation rather than faith in Jesus Christ. The Sabbath became the end-all of everything and was more important than the atonement of Christ upon the cross. They even taught me that Sunday observance was the 'mark of the beast'.(?) But now, rather than staying in the shadow (Old Testament Sabbath-24 hr observance on Saturday), my sabbath rest is Christ Himself (Matthew 11:28-29). Jesus is my rest (24/7/365) and not the limited 24 hr observance that was commanded to the Jews. Now I am a Baptist. "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." Romans 14:5
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#10 Tubal

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 08:54 PM

This is going to turn into a huge debate, I'll make a thread for us soon. :)
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#11 Calypsis4

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 08:10 PM

This is going to turn into a huge debate, I'll make a thread for us soon. :)


No it isn't because I am not going there. You look elsewhere to promote your theory of Sabbath observance.

#12 Tubal

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 09:10 PM

No it isn't because I am not going there. You look elsewhere to promote your theory of Sabbath observance.


But if I believe it is not a theory, and that you are indeed missing out or confused on something shouldn't we solve this?
It's sad to see that you won't even give me a chance. I do not want to hurt you, but I think you are mistaken on the sabbath.

The Lord says if you love him keep his commandments. I see no reason to stop keeping the sabbath. After all look at the nature of the law.
It wasn't a "thou shalt not" it was "remember" because God knew some day you would forget and it implies people were keeping it before and
somewhere they had forgotten.


As you wish but I will not give up. I'll reply to all this that you both have said right here, I didn't mean to offend but I will not relent.

#13 Tubal

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 11:28 PM

The only thing I have read so far is from CARM. It is based on the teachings of Matt Slick. I do not agree with his Calvinist leanings (I will explain this in a second).

It does not seem that any of the teachings would cause anyone to lose their salvation (from what I can tell), but some teachings are Biblically unsound or debatable:

http://carm.org/reli...dventist-church
http://carm.org/esse...of-christianity
http://carm.org/reli...adventism-teach
http://carm.org/reli...dventist-church

In this last link, Matt contends with the SDA disagreeing with predestination (a Calvinist teaching). He cites Ephesians 1:1-11 for this. When I read it, it seemed to refer to God choosing to give us (humans) salvation through Jesus Christ before creation, not specific people being chosen by God to be saved before creation. I disagree with predestination, but this teaching is not key to salvation, and therefore I view it as irrelevant.

If I were you I would seek out more info about this, and pray for discernment from God. Maybe someone else here could give you more info too.

Though CARM in itself has many distorted and incorrect doctrine I will ignore that and pretend they are qualified to judge others..

Does CARM recommend the Seventh-day Adventist Church?

No, CARM does not recommend attending the Seventh-day Adventist church. There are too many problems within Seventh-day Adventistism to recommend it as a safe church.

This quote makes me especially happy, I'm very happy that CARM does not recommend SDA.

One of the problems with Seventh-day Adventism is Saturday worship. They are certainly free to worship on Saturday. That is not unbiblical. However, the problem is when any Seventh-day Adventist group asserts that the proper day of worship is Saturday, not Sunday. The early church practiced worship on Sunday and the scriptures mention the church gathering on Sunday, the same day Jesus rose:

It is absolutely not Sunday nor can it be. Sunday is the pagan day of worship and was never used to worship the Lord. We cannot give unto the Lord any day but only that which is his that he specifically separated for his holy purpose as he did with the Sabbath.
Genesis 2:3 Remember when the sons of Aaron offered strange fire to God that was not the one he told them to use?
Exodus 20:10 The Lord is not God of the Sunday, he is the Lord of the Sabbath because with that day we recognize him as the creator. He did not make the Sunday holy, he worked that day. Shall our example not be Jesus? Luke 4:16 No where in the Bible can you find worship on the Sunday, this part is just a flat out lie on the side of CARM and saying that Jesus rose on the Sunday is just adding points to my argument, why didn't he rise on the Sabbath? He rested. The Lord did NOT sanctify the first day of the week. CARM gives some texts which it thinks excuses it from this apostasy.
The first: Acts 20:7 "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.". Are they worshiping on the first day of the week? No. They are just eating together and preaching. Where does it say you can only preach on a Sabbath? What does preaching have to do with keeping a Sabbath? This text is void towards the aims of CARM. No change from seventh day Sabbath.
The Second: 1 Corinthians 16:2 "Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come." Again this is another text that goes towards my argument. Why didn't they separate the tithes on the Sabbath? The Sabbath is holy that is why they left it for the first day of the week.
The Third: Romans 14:1-12 "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.". This text is talking about fasting. Reference http://www.torahands...om/romans14.htm
May the Holy Spirit lead us and God help us seek him tooth and nail.
CARM also has 3 extra notes as to why they cannot recommend the SDA chruch. They are:

Predestination. I agree that God predestined ALL of us to be saved. That was his intention. If we choose to be lost, we are lost.
I deny and I condemn people saying that someone was predestined to be lost. There is no such thing, you are lost out of free will.
If there was no free will there is no sin, because sin can only be found in a place where you have choice between truth and error.

Immortality of the Soul. I do not believe in ghosts, or that when we die we float about as some sort of Casper type thingy. This is NOT Biblical. God says just as the animal die so dies the man. We are dust. The text CARM uses to defend this is shameful. Luke 16:19-31
This was a parable where Jesus was pointing out the error in the beliefs of the Pharisees.

Micheal is Jesus. There is strong Biblical evidence that points to the conclusion that Micheal may indeed be Jesus. I'm not going to strafe into this because it doesn't really save or harm anyone but if you guys want we can talk about it too if you want.

I think I have done my best to show the error of CARM. I rebuke and reject them. How they so quickly reject the word of God for traditions of men and twist and distort the doctrines as "grievous wolves" makes me sick. Follow them not and this is why it pleases me they don't recommend SDA ;)

Because they taught me that observance of the Sabbath was the final proof of a persons salvation rather than faith in Jesus Christ. The Sabbath became the end-all of everything and was more important than the atonement of Christ upon the cross. They even taught me that Sunday observance was the 'mark of the beast'.(?) But now, rather than staying in the shadow (Old Testament Sabbath-24 hr observance on Saturday), my sabbath rest is Christ Himself (Matthew 11:28-29). Jesus is my rest (24/7/365) and not the limited 24 hr observance that was commanded to the Jews. Now I am a Baptist. "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." Romans 14:5


Revelation 22:14 "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

The law of God brother is something we cannot give up for a moment. The law shows us how pathetic we are, it takes us to Jesus. Jesus says "if you love me keep my commandments", he takes us to the law. This back and forth is a Christians life and the cycle of character building for heaven. The 4th commandment is part of that law. Matthew 15:3-9 Mark 7:7 Mark 7:9 Revelation 14:12 "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Jesus says he that says he loves him and keeps not his commandments is a liar. If we truly love God why do we disobey?

Another thing of interest you may want to note, brother is that in heaven we will all keep the Sabbath. Isaiah 66:22-23

If this still isn't making sense to you, pray and ask the Holy Spirit. I wanted to post in this thread as soon as I saw both your replies, but I didn't want to say something out of place. I've been thinking all week about how I was going to reply. I even fasted today until six pm before typing for this topic.



God bless.

#14 Tubal

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 01:15 PM

Calypsis, I'll make the thread anyway, if you do not want to hear then so be it. Everyone will have to give account some day.

2 Peter 3:15-16

And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


How you regard the Sabbath as a theory scares me. I hope I have been of help.




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