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Is Jesus The Arc Angel Michael?


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#1 jason777

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 02:41 AM

I was bible studying one sunday while watching Pastor Doug Batchelor. He said that Michael is'nt a name but a Hebrew word that translates into "As unto the Lord". In which case, only Jesus is like the Lord in more than one way.

1) He is as holy and blameless as the Lord.

2) Having all things handed over to him, he is as all mighty as the Lord.

Why not just say Jesus instead of "As unto the Lord"? Becaues "Jesus" is the name given to him after his birth in this world and he did'nt have a name in heaven - only "I am". In genesis the Lord told Moses to tell the people that "I am" has sent you. And in the book of John, Jesus says that "I am the bread that came down from heaven" "I am the truth" "I am the life". All indicating that he did'nt have the name "Jesus" until he was born in this world.



Enjoy.

#2 ikester7579

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 03:43 AM

In Heaven, there is an order of position of rule and power. If Jesus were part of the angel rule and power, the angels would be part of the trinity. Michael is head of the Angels, so therefore he rules over the angels in Heaven, and is a messenger of God.

Now classifying Jesus as an angel, takes away Jesus position as the Son of God. Some people's goal is to downgrade the deity position of rule and power of Jesus. They sometimes do it knowingly or unknowingly.

The rule of thumb in any teaching situation is to always compare what is taught in the word and the set up rule and power in Heaven. Teaching a couple of things wrong about the word does not mean the person is a bad teacher of the word. No one is perfect. But if you want to set this into prospective with a question:

Can an angel, or the Son of God, die for our sins?

So saying that Jesus is an angel may also deny what Jesus did on the cross.

#3 Ron

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 10:30 AM

I was bible studying one sunday while watching Pastor Doug Batchelor. He said that Michael is'nt a name but a Hebrew word that translates into "As unto the Lord". In which case, only Jesus is like the Lord in more than one way.

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I hate to say this, but I would be concerned with someone reading way too much into the Word of God. All Biblical names have meanings, and there are too many to go into right now. Michael the Archangel was "an angel", a creature. Jesus is God, the creator.

That information alone should dissuade you from believing what a misguided pastor is teaching. We are supposed to be like the Bereans, and receive "the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so" Acts 17:11

You are doing the right thing in asking, but you need to also "search the scriptures" to insure whether or not someones word is true (regardless of their title).

#4 ikester7579

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 12:25 PM

All doctrine needs to be tested by the word of God. We need to watch out in allowing a denominational belief become our God when we allow that belief to supersede the Word of God.

To many Christian today do this. and not to derail the thread, but a good example is the osas debate. Using scripture I can prove that "once saved always saved" is wrong. And you know what happens when I do that? I get called all kinds of names. Now if the Christian is supposed to allow scripture to correct them, then why would they resort to doing this? It because they prefer their denominational teaching (interpretation) over what is clearly shown in the word of God. So when they find that they cannot refute the "no-osas" with the word, they resort to another tactic to defend what they "want" to be true,

That is why I went the way of being non-denominational because adhering to anyone denomination makes one have to choose between the word, or the denomination interpretation of the word. And it should not be that way because God and His word should always be first. And denominations that are not open to that are taking the place of God in relaying what truth is. In other words. God needs to be corrected by them instead of the other way around.

#5 AFJ

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 06:20 PM

In Heaven, there is an order of position of rule and power. If Jesus were part of the angel rule and power, the angels would be part of the trinity. Michael is head of the Angels, so therefore he rules over the angels in Heaven, and is a messenger of God.

Now classifying Jesus as an angel, takes away Jesus position as the Son of God. Some people's goal is to downgrade the deity position of rule and power of Jesus. They sometimes do it knowingly or unknowingly.

The rule of thumb in any teaching situation is to always compare what is taught in the word and the set up rule and power in Heaven. Teaching a couple of things wrong about the word does not mean the person is a bad teacher of the word. No one is perfect. But if you want to set this into prospective with a question:

Can an angel, or the Son of God, die for our sins?

So saying that Jesus is an angel may also deny what Jesus did on the cross.

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I would definitely have to agree ikester, based especially on Hebrews 1.

Hebrews Chapter 1

1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets,

2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.


5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,“You are my Son, today I have begotten you”?  Or again,  “I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son”?

6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God's angels worship him.”

[That would include Michael]

7 Of the angels he says, “He makes his angels winds, and his ministers a flame of fire.”

8 But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”

10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning,
and the heavens are the work of your hands;


[Notice the context, Paul says he calls the SON God]

13 And to which of the angels has he ever said, “Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”?


John 1:1, 14

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us....

#6 Ron

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 06:38 PM

Other that that, a cursory understanding of John chapter 1: 1 -14, especially verse One: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”

God is not an angel! Therefore Jesus is not an angel.

#7 Tubal

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 01:55 AM

You are all right. God is not an angel! Nor does he have to be to rule over them. Assuming that to command over a creation they have to be part of the trinity is wrong. Just as Melchizedek is Jesus so can Micheal be. Arch Angel simply means, leader OF the angelic host. It does not make him an angel.

The Bible does not make Jesus out to be a mere messenger any more than the Bible makes Him a mere animal by reffering to Him as a "Lamb".

This pretty much sums it up. Great reading here http://straighttesti...so-michael.html And check out this thread to
http://www.evolutionfairytale.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5023

God Bless.

#8 Fred Williams

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:43 PM

Warning, don't respond to Tubal, he's a fraud and has been banned.

Fred

#9 Dig4gold

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 09:19 PM

Perhaps another question would be if Michael is the Restrainer.

He is seen as the defender of Israel: Dan 10:21
However, I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth. Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael your prince.

He is seen in the last days ceasing from his protection of Israel (during the times of Jacob's trouble): Dan 12:1
Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise (amad). And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.

The Hebrew word amad (Strongs#5975) means to “arise or cease”, depending on the previous state of a person. If one is sitting and performs the action of amad, it means “to arise”. If one is walking and performs the action of amad, it means “to cease”. It can also mean “withstand" or "stand fast”.

What type of activity, peace or warfare was Michael engaged in with the prince of Persia, another angelic being?
Is this type of activity normally done while sitting down?

How did Daniel describe Michael’s activity in Dan 10:21?

The word “holdeth” (Strong’s#2388) means to “fasten upon, to seize, be strong, to bind, restrain”. How does this compare to the meaning of hinder?

In this case does the Bible say that Michael is acting as a restrainer?

How does this picture fit in with the end times scene in Revelation? Rev 12:7-9
7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war, 8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole [d]world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
This occurs just at the time when Jacob's trouble begins during the Great Tribulation. Who is in sight as stepping down from waring with HaSatan? Michael kicks him to the curb and ceases to protect Israel.

How does the devil feel about that? Rev 12:12-13
12 For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who [f]dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time.”
13 And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child .

That is the time of Jacob's trouble, like a time that never has been before. The devil has been kicked out of heaven by Michael, the defender of Israel, and Michael has ceased (amad) to protect Israel and the devil knows that he only has a short time to complete his plan - destroy God's people, i.e., the woman who gave birth to the Messiah, Israel.




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