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The Biotic Message


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#1 hooberus

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Posted 27 April 2005 - 09:46 PM

Recently I have been reading the book "The Biotic Message" by Walter ReMine. This book is more expensive than many creationist books (around $45.00) however, it is well worth it. In fact I think that is one of the best critisms of evolution in available in a single volume. The author goes into much more detail than many creationist books on the supposed evidences for evolution (such as the claim of a nested hierarchy as it relates to evolution). Particular emphasis is placed on the issue of falsifiability of evolution. ReMine basically concludes that evolution is either falsified or unfalsifiable depending on which version of evolution is under discussion. I consider this to be a book that should be read by all creationists desiring a detailed look at the issues. Explains for example why convergences (ie: mammal and octopus eyes) are possibly purposefully not identical (evolutionsists claim that identical convergence would falsify their theory -in reality it would be trivially easy to explain). Detailed information on population genetics as it related to evolution. In addition to anti-evolution arguments the Author's Biotic Message theory claims to specifically explains why homologies exist (ie: human and whale forelimb similarities), rather than just merley using the phrase "common designer."

Though not a young eath creationist publication per se (see the AiG review), much of the book is applicable to the YEC paradigm. The anti-evolution arguments are worth the price of the book many times over and the Biotic Message Theory is also.

THIS BOOK IS IMPORTANT (ESPECIALLY IF YOU EVER DEBATE EVOLUTIONISTS). NOT ONLY THAT BUT IT PROVIDES POTENTIAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS THAT I HAVEN'T FOUND ANSWERED ELSEWHERE. (SUCH AS WHY A NESTED HIERARCHY, WHY NO IDENTICAL CONVERGENCE, WHY SIMILAR FORELIMBS WHEN A CREATOR COULD HAVE CHOSEN ANY DESIGN, ETC.)

A POTENTIALLY VERY IMPORTANT BOOK (OF COUSE THE BIBLE IS STILL THE BEST!)

#2 hooberus

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Posted 27 April 2005 - 09:51 PM

The linked table of contents gives an idea of the deatail of the books contents:

http://www1.minn.net...ce/contents.htm

#3 hooberus

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Posted 27 April 2005 - 09:57 PM

Please don't think this is advertising. I feel that this book is important.

#4 chance

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Posted 27 April 2005 - 10:52 PM

Please don't think this is advertising. I feel that this book is important.

View Post


Perish the thought.

Is there some argument that 'jumps out' worthy of discussion?

#5 Geezer

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 07:33 AM

Oh no - back to defining "information". :>)

#6 Fred Williams

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 08:36 AM

Remine's book is also my personal favorite. If you are a creationist, I highly recommend it for your library:

http://creationresea...ct_Code=BK-BIO2

If you are an evolutionist and want to aggravate yourself with further proof that you believe in a fairytale, I also recommend it highly! :)

FYI, Remine is the one who brought Haldane's Dilemma to the forefront of the debate (among many other great insights in his book, especially on the fossil record). It was the inspiration for my mutation rate article, a problem related to Haldane's Dilemma that keeps getting worse for the evolutionists as we continue to find more function in the genome.

Fred

#7 chance

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 02:01 PM

According to talkorigins, Haldine’s article was first published in 1957, and that Haldine is reported to have said, that his calculations will need revision. The errors in Haldine’s work stem from an invalid fitness constant, and the speed with which two mutations can reach fixation.

The book “The Biotic Message" by Walter ReMine, also makes some bad assumption in addition to Haldine. All explained in the link.

#8 hooberus

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 03:45 AM

The book “The Biotic Message" by Walter ReMine, also makes some bad assumption in addition to Haldine. All explained in the link.


Here is the first ReMine invalid "assumption" accoriding to talkorigins:

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB121.html

ReMine (1993), who promotes the claim, makes several invalid assumptions:
The vast majority of differences would probably be due to genetic drift, not selection.


ReMine never made this assumption. He never implied that the majority of substitutions in a lineage would be due to selection. (also ReMine's Haldane argument didn't even focus on the differences between humans and apes, to begin with).

I don't see how the talkorigins authors even read ReMine carefully.

#9 hooberus

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 03:51 AM

Here is ReMine's homepage

http://www1.minn.net...ence/index.html

Click on the top subsection: "Haldane's Dilemma" and scroll down He has a response to the "talk origins" arcticle.



Also see:
http://www.evolution...ne_rebuttal.htm

#10 hooberus

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 03:59 AM

On the popular "index to Creationist Claims" section Talk Origins tells us:

http://www.talkorigi...c/CB/CB121.html

Response:
Haldane's "cost of natural selection" stemmed from an invalid simplifying assumption in his calculations. He divided by a fitness constant in a way that invalidated his assumption of constant population size, and his cost of selection is an artifact of the changed population size. He also assumed that two mutations would take twice as long to reach fixation as one, but because of S@xual recombination, the two can be selected simultaneously and both reach fixation sooner. With corrected calculations, the cost disappears (Wallace 1991; Williams n.d.).



However on another Talk Origins page we find:

http://www.talkorigi...s/faqs-rff.html

Request For FAQs (RFF)

While the Talk.Origins Archive already has a slew of FAQs, there are many issues that come up regularly or occasionally which aren't adequately addressed by the existing set of articles and essays. So, the archive maintains this Request for FAQs list, which describes topics for wanted articles.



The real debates in evolution:
Punctuated equilibrium/common misconceptions
The origin of s@x
Evolutionary psychology
How important are neutral mutations?
Haldane's dilemma
Evolution of language
Evolution of intelligence in humans


On one hand (in the commonly used "Index to Creationist Claims") Talk Origins tells us: "With corrected calculations, the cost disappears" however on another Talk Orgins page we have a request from them for FAQs -one of them being on Haldane's dilemma with it listed under the "real debates" in evolution section!

#11 chance

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 01:36 PM

From The Biotic Message, link

The central claims of the theory are simple and plausible:
Life was reasonably designed for survival, and to convey a message that tells where life came from. The message can be described in two parts:

Life was designed to look like the product of a single designer.
Life was designed to resist all other explanations.


Well for those who have read the book, what is the evidence presented that life was designed?

#12 ret

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Posted 14 May 2005 - 05:06 PM

A good book for creationists to read would be The Case For A Creator by Lee Strobel. It's a very interesting book, although not all of it is about evolution. The entire book is basically interviews he did with experts. I haven't read Remine's book, but I'll look into it.




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