Jump to content


Photo

Genetic Entropy

The end of evolution?

  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
7 replies to this topic

#1 Mike Summers

Mike Summers

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1697 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Information theory, electronics, videography, writing, human psychology, psychotherapy
  • Age: 61
  • Christian
  • Creationist
  • Detroit Michigan area

Posted 16 July 2012 - 03:35 PM

Evo scientists contend that life began 3.8 billion years ago possibly around vents in the bottom of earth's oceans. According to this theory, life began when the first replicating molecules and cells appeared in or aroud these vents. Accordingly, this process is not now going on. It was an anomoly--a one time event?

If the previous conclusion is true, curent cells in all life forms (including humans) must contain unscathed copies of this original genetic material--a copy of a copy duplicated for 3.8 billion years (that's what constitutes life) . Incredible.

The human begins with one cell. At maturity the human body consists of 100 trillion cells. Moreover, the 100 trillion cells are replaced totally every ten years--with some cells living longer than others. When someone is 50 years old there have been over 500 trillion copies of their orginal one cell.

One theory of the cause of death says that copying errors occurring in cells eventually (genetic entropy) causes death.

3.8 billion years of genetic entropy would most assuredly have doomed life by now!

That leads to the conclusion that life on earth hasn't been here that long.

#2 gilbo12345

gilbo12345

    Honorable Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5671 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Completed BBiotech (Honours)

    Currently studying Masters of Teaching.

    Enjoys games of tactics and strategy.
  • Age: 25
  • (private)
  • Creationist
  • Australia

Posted 17 July 2012 - 03:39 AM

Evo scientists contend that life began 3.8 billion years ago possibly around vents in the bottom of earth's oceans. According to this theory, life began when the first replicating molecules and cells appeared in or aroud these vents. Accordingly, this process is not now going on. It was an anomoly--a one time event?

If the previous conclusion is true, curent cells in all life forms (including humans) must contain unscathed copies of this original genetic material--a copy of a copy duplicated for 3.8 billion years (that's what constitutes life) . Incredible.

The human begins with one cell. At maturity the human body consists of 100 trillion cells. Moreover, the 100 trillion cells are replaced totally every ten years--with some cells living longer than others. When someone is 50 years old there have been over 500 trillion copies of their orginal one cell.

One theory of the cause of death says that copying errors occurring in cells eventually (genetic entropy) causes death.

3.8 billion years of genetic entropy would most assuredly have doomed life by now!

That leads to the conclusion that life on earth hasn't been here that long.


The entropy you speak of (as in the cause of organism death) isn't passed on. What you speak of occurs when cells replicate they cut off a small fragment of the DNA, normally this wouldn't matter due to the telomeres at each end, however over time it is claimed that the telomeres run out and useful information starts to get cut off. Telomere length is determined when a baby is an embryo telomerase is turned on so it adds telomeres as each time the embryo cells replicate. Turning on telomerase is claimed to be able to make humans live indefinitely, yet cancer also uses telomerase to become "immortal cells" therefore whilst people may not grow old they would be more susceptible to cancer since one of the mutations required would already be provided for.


Genetic entropy that is passed on generation to generation is to do with random mutations and how they are jumbling the genetic code. I haven't heard how they are attributed to an organisms death, (then again I am not the be-all-end-all of knowledge ;) )
  • Mike Summers likes this

#3 jason777

jason777

    Moderator

  • Moderator Team
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2670 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Machining, Engine Building, Geology, Paleontology, Fishing
  • Age: 40
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Springdale,AR.

Posted 17 July 2012 - 09:47 AM

John C. Sanford was one of the leading genetics professors in this country (Retired). He is the inventor of the gene gun and co-inventor of the computer software "Mendel's Accountant". And yes, despite evolutionists rhetoric about genetics isn't possible without evolution, he's a staunch YEC.

Once an empirical mutation rate was obtained it was ran through Mendel's Accountant and the algorithm showed the extinction of the human race in only 350 generations.

http://evolutionfair...indpost&p=82427



Enjoy.

#4 Mike Summers

Mike Summers

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1697 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Information theory, electronics, videography, writing, human psychology, psychotherapy
  • Age: 61
  • Christian
  • Creationist
  • Detroit Michigan area

Posted 17 July 2012 - 11:22 AM

The entropy you speak of (as in the cause of organism death) isn't passed on. What you speak of occurs when cells replicate they cut off a small fragment of the DNA, normally this wouldn't matter due to the telomeres at each end, however over time it is claimed that the telomeres run out and useful information starts to get cut off. Telomere length is determined when a baby is an embryo telomerase is turned on so it adds telomeres as each time the embryo cells replicate. Turning on telomerase is claimed to be able to make humans live indefinitely, yet cancer also uses telomerase to become "immortal cells" therefore whilst people may not grow old they would be more susceptible to cancer since one of the mutations required would already be provided for.


Genetic entropy that is passed on generation to generation is to do with random mutations and how they are jumbling the genetic code. I haven't heard how they are attributed to an organisms death, (then again I am not the be-all-end-all of knowledge Posted Image )


I remember readin (I'll have to check my sources again ) there are other theories than the telemere theory of why humans die. It would seem probable that copying erros might occur after trillions and trilion of duplicates.

Assuming we agree that the humans had a common ancestor with the apes 200,000 years ago--and with a generation being 30 years there would be 6667 generations since the split off. )as per Jason's post). Mankind would be extinct by now.

#5 gilbo12345

gilbo12345

    Honorable Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5671 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Completed BBiotech (Honours)

    Currently studying Masters of Teaching.

    Enjoys games of tactics and strategy.
  • Age: 25
  • (private)
  • Creationist
  • Australia

Posted 17 July 2012 - 10:54 PM

I remember readin (I'll have to check my sources again ) there are other theories than the telemere theory of why humans die. It would seem probable that copying erros might occur after trillions and trilion of duplicates.

Assuming we agree that the humans had a common ancestor with the apes 200,000 years ago--and with a generation being 30 years there would be 6667 generations since the split off. )as per Jason's post). Mankind would be extinct by now.


Yeah I agree :D An analogy would be a book and there is a threshold where after a given amount of "mutations" would make the book a jumbled mess. I meant that I wasn't sure how such mutations are a cause of death, pertaining to the death of an individual... (not the extinction death we are discussing now).

#6 Mike Summers

Mike Summers

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1697 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Information theory, electronics, videography, writing, human psychology, psychotherapy
  • Age: 61
  • Christian
  • Creationist
  • Detroit Michigan area

Posted 18 July 2012 - 10:09 AM

Yeah I agree Posted Image An analogy would be a book and there is a threshold where after a given amount of "mutations" would make the book a jumbled mess. I meant that I wasn't sure how such mutations are a cause of death, pertaining to the death of an individual... (not the extinction death we are discussing now).


I read that there are about 100 mutations per person. Therfore in 6667 generations that would be a total of more than 1.3 billion mutations..

#7 gilbo12345

gilbo12345

    Honorable Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5671 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Completed BBiotech (Honours)

    Currently studying Masters of Teaching.

    Enjoys games of tactics and strategy.
  • Age: 25
  • (private)
  • Creationist
  • Australia

Posted 18 July 2012 - 12:59 PM

I read that there are about 100 mutations per person. Therfore in 6667 generations that would be a total of more than 1.3 billion mutations..


But, but, but.... natural selection..... :P

#8 Mike Summers

Mike Summers

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1697 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Information theory, electronics, videography, writing, human psychology, psychotherapy
  • Age: 61
  • Christian
  • Creationist
  • Detroit Michigan area

Posted 10 August 2012 - 03:25 PM

Dawkins begins the book with a startling, yet true claim on behalf of all organisms that have ever lived: not a single one of our ancestors died before they reached adulthood and begot at least one child. In a world where most organisms die before they can procreate, descendants are common but ancestors are rare. But we can all claim an unbroken chain of successful ancestors all the way back to the first single-celled organism.


Paraphased in Wikipedia from Richard Dawkins' book, The selfish Gene (1976)

Wow! 3.8 billion years!




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users