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I'm In The Mood To Watch Evolutionists Squirm...


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#1 Fred Williams

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 12:16 AM

I realize the title goes against the forum guidelines, but, you see, I get to enjoy certain privileges as owner of the forum. :D

Please explain the following:

Posted Image


Dearest evo story-tellers, which bi-line will it be this time? Chaos theory? Occam’s Razor? Pi is wrong in the Bible?

Good luck…… :) :rolleyes:

Fred

#2 stick

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 03:54 AM

I realize the title goes against the forum guidelines, but, you see, I get to enjoy certain privileges as owner of the forum. :)

Please explain the following:

Posted Image
Dearest evo story-tellers, which bi-line will it be this time? Chaos theory? Occam’s Razor? Pi is wrong in the Bible?

Good luck…… :)  :rolleyes:

Fred

View Post


http://www.scienceag...trunc_sys.shtml

http://video.google....301713635559854

http://images.google...ved=0CB4QsAQwAw

who's squirming now?? :D

#3 CTD

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 05:21 AM

http://www.scienceag...trunc_sys.shtml

http://video.google....301713635559854

http://images.google...ved=0CB4QsAQwAw

who's squirming now?? :rolleyes:

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The new findings deal a serious blow to the Intelligent Design movement which has long contended that the lack of an apparent evolutionary pathway for complex eye development indicated the presence of a supreme designer.

So the argument used to have merit? If not, it couldn't be a serious blow.

#4 Ryyker

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 05:40 AM

http://www.scienceag...trunc_sys.shtml

http://video.google....301713635559854

http://images.google...ved=0CB4QsAQwAw

who's squirming now?? :rolleyes:

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That is a powerful method of persuasion you have used there. Ignore the specific challenge made in the OP and just present the best evidence concepts available to explain the eye without an intelligent designer.

Powerful, but easily seen through.
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#5 ikester7579

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 05:54 AM

Regardless of the explaination, the point is no one has observed the process of how the eye came to be. And because every part of the body is basically a design based on many things including math. It requires either side to prove what can design, and what can do math.

Even though evolutionists can explain away the design part with scientific work arounds. The math part cannot be explained around because only intelligence can do math. There is nothing in nature that does math on the level required to make and design life.

#6 Fred Williams

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 07:16 AM

http://www.scienceag...trunc_sys.shtml

http://video.google....301713635559854

http://images.google...ved=0CB4QsAQwAw

who's squirming now?? :D

View Post


Dear slick, er stick,

Did you even look at the picture? I'm not asking about how eye sight evolved, we've already heard your fanciful light sensing primitive protien fables. Please don't blindly (pun intended) pull up a few evolution stories off the net, that do not even remotely come close to explaining the sling at the top of the picture.

So, care to try again? Please explain, how did the muscle narrow to find its way through the sling to keep the eye in place? That is your challenge for today. Class dismissed. :rolleyes:

Fred

#7 stick

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 10:49 AM

Dear slick, er stick,

Did you even look at the picture? I'm not asking about how eye sight evolved, we've already heard your fanciful light sensing primitive protien fables.  Please don't blindly (pun intended) pull up a few evolution stories off the net, that do not even remotely come close to explaining the sling at the top of the picture.

So, care to try again? Please explain, how did the muscle narrow to find its way through the sling to keep the eye in place? That is your challenge for today. Class dismissed.  :unsure:

Fred

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Ok, ok, I'll respond a bit later! I posted those links at about 5 am after a sleepless night. Just a quick thought though, I expect the answer would be something like - the same way that everything else on earth evolved.
I'm off to celebrate a guy who attempted to blow up our houses of parliament.
(I'm not a scientist, just a humble car mechanic)

Stick.

#8 AFJ

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 11:13 AM

http://www.scienceag...trunc_sys.shtml

http://video.google....301713635559854

http://images.google...ved=0CB4QsAQwAw

who's squirming now?? :unsure:

View Post

Same old rebuttal. There's a common gene. You are either ignoring or not understanding the principle going on here. The gene/genes have to code unguided for two different morphologic features--the bone and the muscle and the muscle has to fit through the bone.

Reminds me of grade school when we learned about simple machines. This feature follows the principles of a pulley.

Evos will ignore ID as long as they continue to accept simplistic explanations like common genes for things and ignore the utter impossibility of simultaneous coding in so many bio-mechanisms.

#9 stick

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 03:53 AM

Same old rebuttal.  There's a common gene.  You are either ignoring or not understanding the principle going on here.  The gene/genes have to code unguided for two different morphologic features--the bone and the muscle and the muscle has to fit through the bone.

Reminds me of grade school when we learned about simple machines.  This feature follows the principles of a pulley.

Evos will ignore ID as long as they continue to accept simplistic explanations like common genes for things and ignore the utter impossibility of simultaneous coding in so many bio-mechanisms.

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So, that must mean that we were all created by the Judeo Christian God. :D

#10 ikester7579

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 04:01 AM

Ok, ok, I'll respond a bit later! I posted those links at about 5 am after a sleepless night. Just a quick thought though, I expect the answer would be something like - the same way that everything else on earth evolved.
I'm off to celebrate a guy who attempted to blow up our houses of parliament.
(I'm not a scientist, just a humble car mechanic)

Stick.

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Car mechanic? We have something in common then. I used to work on cars before my back and leg started borthering me so I had to quit doing it everyday. But I keep up with what new and self teach myself by buying professional repair books. I guess because I used to race an build race cars, it just got into my blood :D .

#11 stick

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 04:20 AM

Car mechanic? We have something in common then. I used to work on cars before my back and leg started borthering me so I had to quit doing it everyday. But I keep up with what new and self teach myself by buying professional repair books. I guess because I used to race an build race cars, it just got into my blood  :D .

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Hi ikester, sorry to hear about your back, (I Know ALL about back pain) I think it's great that people can have similar jobs/backgrounds and interests yet have completely different worldviews, it makes life so interesting!

As for the op, you've probably guessed that I dont know the answer so I'm going to back away from this thread slowly and continue lurking :)

#12 AFJ

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 06:38 AM

So, that must mean that we were all created by the Judeo Christian God. :D

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It would seem that He just doesn't go away. He brought witness to me this morning--and my imagination can not produce the peace, assurance and power He produces in a troubled heart going through numerous stresses. Seems to me if He is a living eternal Spirit--he will communicate spiritually.

How does imagination produce upholding power? "Sensation" or "feeling" can not fully express this. "Presence" can. Knowing He is here. David in the Psalms said "He is my Rock..." He is not a physical rock, but a spiritual, personal Rock who cares for each one of us personally.

#13 Guest_FrankH_*

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 06:41 PM

I don't know what to say here.

Why do you think that a "supposed problem as you've not seen something 'proven' (there's that word again) to your satisfaction (is that possible?)" is an issue for Evolution?

Not a problem for Evolution.

When you find evidence that contradicts evolution then it is in trouble.

First, the development of eyes were considered to be "show stoppers". Now we have very good understandings how eyes can form and as we have noted, there are several different ways.

Here's a question for ID. Any engineering student would know NOT to put the blood supply through the part you want to receive light, yet that is what is going on with the mammalian eye! The Squid's eye doesn't have that flaw. Yes, flaw. As the blood must come through the back of the light sensitive regions and cause a blind spot. The Squid has no blind spot.

Why would any designer produce such a flaw?

#14 AFJ

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 07:20 PM

I don't know what to say here.

Why do you think that a "supposed problem as you've not seen something 'proven' (there's that word again) to your satisfaction (is that possible?)" is an issue for Evolution?

Not a problem for Evolution.

When you find evidence that contradicts evolution then it is in trouble.

First, the development of eyes were considered to be "show stoppers".  Now we have very good understandings how eyes can form and as we have noted, there are several different ways.

Here's a question for ID.  Any engineering student would know NOT to put the blood supply through the part you want to receive light, yet that is what is going on with the mammalian eye!  The Squid's eye doesn't have that flaw.  Yes, flaw.  As the blood must come through the back of the light sensitive regions and cause a blind spot.  The Squid has no blind spot.

Why would any designer produce such a flaw?

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Started an article on this--back to work tomorrow--don't have time to finish. But it is not blood vessels that are supposedly "in the way,' It's small nerve fibers. Vertebrate eyes are much more complex than invertebrate--but maybe I'll get back to this.

Seems arrogant for someone that has never produced a vertebrate eye to criticize it.

#15 Loungehead

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 09:20 PM

I'm finally convinced evolutionary biology is false.

There is no way something that complex could occur in evolution. Nature and its processes are simple. Just look at how objects fall. They go down. So the muscle could only be created by a designer, because its above the eye. Not below.

And because the evolutionist cannot explain how the eye got like that, it clearly shows evolutionism is wrong.

#16 Loungehead

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 09:24 PM

Seems arrogant for someone that has never produced a vertebrate eye to criticize it.

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I agree. I'd like to see Frank make an eye!

Let me guess, he'll mix some slime in a soup bowl and wait several hundred million years for it to evolve. :lol:

#17 Guest_tharock220_*

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 09:46 PM

Evolution has no reason to squirm. It has given creation a constant beatdown in every arena from the academic to the legal.

As for the trochlea, I'm not ashamed to say I don't know. Just because scientists can't explain the evolutionary steps of every structure seen in biology doesn't mean it's wrong.

#18 Isabella

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 11:18 PM

Seems arrogant for someone that has never produced a vertebrate eye to criticize it.

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You know what I think is arrogant? Labelling something as impossible just because you can’t think of a way it could have happened. Do you actually think so highly of your own intellect that anything you can’t personally explain must be completely inexplicable? That would be an incredibly arrogant claim.
I don’t know how the eye muscles evolved. But that certainly doesn’t give me the authority to deem evolution as impossible. I don’t think anyone here has that authority.

#19 CTD

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 12:32 AM

You know what I think is arrogant? Labelling something as impossible just because you can’t think of a way it could have happened. Do you actually think so highly of your own intellect that anything you can’t personally explain must be completely inexplicable? That would be an incredibly arrogant claim.
I don’t know how the eye muscles evolved. But that certainly doesn’t give me the authority to deem evolution as impossible. I don’t think anyone here has that authority.

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I don't care what you have decided to consider arrogant. I know what most assuredly is arrogant:
Claiming something is a done deal when nobody can begin to imagine how it happened, and there are a multitude of reasons for believing it didn't.

If you don't need an origin story to explain origins, what exactly are you doing advocating evolutionism?

Darwin lowered the bar unacceptably. He wasn't trying to prove his speculations ever happened. The standard for evolutionism was merely that it be possible. Yet even this isn't low enough to suit today's evolutionists. It need not even be conceivable, and they are satisfied.

My question: can the bare even be lowered further, or has anything-but-the-truthism reached the final limit? The only evolutionist who can squirm is one who cares, so we may not see so much as expected. Then again, all evopushers care about sales...

#20 Designist

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 01:09 AM

I realize the title goes against the forum guidelines, but, you see, I get to enjoy certain privileges as owner of the forum. :lol:

Please explain the following:

Posted Image
Dearest evo story-tellers, which bi-line will it be this time? Chaos theory? Occam’s Razor? Pi is wrong in the Bible?

Good luck…… ;)  :lol:

Fred

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Hi Fred,

I too think it does an excellent job at refuting evolution.

The first time I heard about evolution was when I was in grade 9, in the 1960's. It sounded too incredible for me to believe. But I just ignored it and carried on with my life anyway, until I learned more about it through other Bible believers.

I can't swallow it no matter how much I might like to. It is still too incredible for me to believe.

The Story of creation as it appears in the Bible has all the characteristics of a non-fictional story and the story of evolution doesn't. So, naturally, I gravitate towards Genesis, and reject evolution.




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