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Creation Of Light.


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#1 Guest_Admin3_*

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 02:06 AM

In trying to explain creation, we often look to much towards the physical things and forget to apply the spiritual nature of God. Where did the first light come from?

And since were speaking of light. Here's something I just got finished writting about: Why God created light twice. This pretty much explains why science misses the mark when it comes to understanding God.

Here are the two verses in question.

First light:
Ge 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Second light:
Ge 1:16 And God made the two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also.

Note: God made and God said are two different ways for God to create. It is explained in more detail in the second post of this thread.

Why did God create light twice? First we have to understand that God is light.

1 John 1:5 And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

So the first light created came from God because God had not created any object that produce light yet. Now since God has no darkness in Him, as stated in 1 John 1:5. The light produced made no shadows and shined everywhere in an instance. This is so because the light was also coming from an eternal being. The light being eternal means time and distance have no hold upon it and this light would not be subjected to a constant light speed, as we know of it today. So the time and distance to the furtherest star would not apply because it all came from an eternal being. And the light that shined from this eternal being shined to the ends of the universe the instant it was created.

Why did God devide the light? Because the first light makes no shadows (as stated in 1 John 1:5), it had to be devided.

But what about the second light?
Read these verses first:
Ge 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years:
Ge 1:15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Ge 1:16 And God made the two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also.
Ge 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of heaven to give light upon the earth,
Ge 1:18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
Ge 1:19 And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

You will notice in all these verses, that the physical objects that produce light, God never says that He devides the light. He allows the light to be devided by the object that produces the natural light. This is why today all light that we see has shadows. This light also is not eternal like the first light was.

So what does this answer?
1) How light can travel billions of light years, but the earth still be less than 10,000 years old. Because it was eternal light from an eternal being.
2) Why light was created twice. To seperate the differences between what is eternal, and what is not.
3) Why the first light had to be devided. Because spiritual light has no darkness to it, as explained in 1 John 1:5.
4) Where the first light came from. God. There was no other object created that could do this.
5) Why the second light was not devided. Because it was not eternal like the first. It casts it's own shadows, so it has darkness already. So it makes day and night just by being there.

But here's where it goes more indepth about the spiritual side of the first light division. In the spiritual realm, light stands for good, darkness stands for evil. So for God to make darkness, in His spiritual light without what goes into darkness (evil), would deny the truthfulness of the verse that says God has no darkness. So who do you think the darkness was made for? Satan, and 1/3 of the angels that were cast out with him.

And because this puts satan on this earth in time to tempt eve, it all fits.

Added: Also notice the first light creation actually a reference made: Genesis 1:And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

The first light has a direct reference to it, and only it as being good. The second light does not have this direct reference. It was after all the natural things that were created that produce the natural light did God say it was good.


Here's a verse that confirms what light and darkness mean in the spiritual realm: Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Also, the first light being eternal fulfills God saying that He is the alpha and omega. Alpha = First light, or beginning light, Omega = Light Being eternal and shining to the ends of everything. Because God says He is the alpha, and that He is also light, God had to be the first light created. So I guess you could also call the first light, God's alpha light.
Here's another verse to confirm this:

Revelation 21:23
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

The light of God is the glory of God.

Revelation 21:24-25

24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

So what do we have so far?

First light=good (spiritual light) Plus it had to be devided by God to make a realm for spiritual evil (darkness).

Second light+the natural objects that produce light=good (physical or natual light). And the second light itself caused day and night just by being there, and no division to make darkness was required.
Ge 1:16 And God made the two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also.

Here's another difference in the two lights. One was spoken into existance: Ge 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

The second light was made: Ge 1:16 And God made the two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also.



What do these verses prove?
1) Verse 23 shows that when the light of God is shining, the light from the sun or moon is not needed.
2) And that people will be able to walk and live in this light, shows that this light from God can also support life, even before the sun and moon were created.
3) And because this shows the same exact situation that was present at the light creation (no sun, no moon). It's a demonstration that neither was needed for God to create and sustain life.

So the next time someone asks a question about how was there life without the sun or moon, show them these verses. The ones that really don't care about God or His truth, will make snide remarks about this. Those who are searching for truth in God's word will be amazed that the answer to this was there the whole time.
But, there is another questioned answered here. Because all of this applies to what is spiritual, the answer to something that has eluded us is now answered and totally denies the Gap Theory.

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The form and void spoke of here was a refernce to something in the spiritual relm, not the physical. Since God was applying His spiritual light to the earth right after saying the earth was without form and void, as shown in these verse:

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Here we see only the glory of God shinning upon the earth (His light).
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

And this is confirmed when God says that the light is good. What light is good? Spiritual light from God. But then we see something happen to this light, it's divided, and the term used to describe it is darkness. When God's word refers to what is evil as being dark, darkness is always used. So what just happened when God seperated the light from darkness? God was fixing the form and void that existed in the spiritual realm also refered to as the heavens. God set up the bounderies for good and evil.
But can we be sure of this?

Genesis1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Notice the word heaven (singular) refers to one heaven. In the spiritual realm there are three heavens. So when were they all made? Your seeing the division of one heaven with the division of light. You see, the main heaven, God's realm, already existed (heaven that was there even before creation). Now the order and bounderies between good and evil are in place. And when man is created, his physical heaven was now complete with the two spiritual heavens, which now equals three heavens.

Notice what it says in Genesis 2:1.
1. Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

The word heaven now becomes heavens at the end of creation. So the term without form and void, was a reference to the bouderies of the physical and spiritual world being set up. But can the three heavens be confirmed?

II Corinthians 12: 2, I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

The seperation between good and evil did not exist before actual creation, which caused the form and void problem spoke of. But when God was finished creating the bounderies for the three heavens, the form and void problem was fixed.

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 02:29 AM

The difference between "said" creation, "made" creation and object commanded creation (a bring forth type of creation).

Said=a spiritual creation by God's devine power to speak creation. Such as speaking something into existence from nothing. A verbal command. A commandment creation.


Made=a creation that is formed. A creation that is formed into it's final form after being spoken into existance.

If you do a word search on each word, you will notice that neither "said" or "made" are ever used in the same verse. This is because each one is a reference to a different type of creation.

God speaking creation is God created from nothing. When God made something, He was working with what He had already spoke into existance. So speaking creation creates the material, made creation, forms the material.

Example: First God spoke the firmament into being: Genesis 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

Then in the very next verse He now forms what He has spoke into creation: Genesis 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

Another example: First God speaks creation, then he made creation: 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Another example: 24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

So can these two type of creation be backed up?
Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Created and made are two different types of creation.

Then there is a third type of creation. A creation that is fully formed and does not need to be made. It is a bring forth from what is already there, type of creation.
Genesis 1:11-12
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

A third type of creation where God commanded what was already created (the earth), to bring forth life from it self fully formed. The word made is not used here.

Another example: Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

So in the first example, the earth brought forth what God commanded it to.
The second example, The water brought forth what God had commanded.

So in the third type of creation, we have God commanding what was already there to bring forth life.

And to connect the first post with the second.
We have three types of heavens.
We have three types of creations.
The trinity.
Three days ressurection.

In Biblical Numerology, the number three also has meaning that fits all of the above.
1) In physical creation, measurments are in three demensions. Length, breadth (width), and thickness. These are required to make a solid, And therefore represent a complete creation of what was solid or physical.
2) This solidity and completeness suggest the triune God, Hence three denotes Devine testimony or manifestation. This manifestation is sometimes in ressurrection of things moral, physical, and spiritual.
3) The number three is also one of the most commonly used number in scripture, next to the number seven.
4) There are three great all-embracing attributes of God, ominiscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence.
5) Even the whole cycle of time is in three complete divisions, past, present, and future.

There is more to the number three, but these are the examples that have to do with creation.

#3 Modulous

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 03:19 AM

The light produced made no shadows and shined everywhere in an instance. This is so because the light was also coming from an eternal being. The light being eternal means time and distance have no hold upon it and this light would not be subjected to a constant light speed, as we know of it today. So the time and distance to the furtherest star would not apply because it all came from an eternal being. And the light that shined from this eternal being shined to the ends of the universe the instant it was created.


I think there is some jiggery pokery going on here. I agree with one thing - God do whatsoever He pleases with his Creation. However, I think here you are stretching things a little. Let me justify my opinion on this.

First you say that God is light, and in him is no darkness. You back that up with John 1:5. OK.

1: 5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1Jo 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:


This seems to be talking in metaphor and not about the phenomena we know as photons. Strange things can be said about light, if we allow metaphor to help us define it.

Mat 5:11: Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake....
Matt 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.


According to this the meek and all that are light of the world. Therefore, the sun is the meek.

Pro 6:23: For the commandment [is] a lamp; and the law [is] light; and reproofs of instruction [are] the way of life:

Mind boggling if we assume the light here is the thing we talk about in physics.

Luk 11:34 The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when [thine eye] is evil, thy body also [is] full of darkness.

OK, so we have shown that in TH Bible light is both metaphorical and literal. Light and darkness are often used to mean good and evil. The John quote you posted could easily be read to mean that God is good, and no evil resides in him.

Straight after the quote you make an astonishing claim:
The light produced made no shadows and shined everywhere in an instance.

OK, so before creation, this is irrevocably true - except for everywhere since there was no 'where'. After creation, you are suggesting that there was no darkness? You explain this by saying that God is eternal. You say this means the light was eternal so time nor space are a boundary to it.

I think this needs qualifying a lot here, and certainly needs some sciptural evidence. For a start, 'eternal' is a problem because it is a time related concept. If we skip that, we also know that it hasn't been an eternity since creation. So after creation was the light eternal? At what point does the light go from being eternal, to being temporal? And how can we say that eternal light has infinite speed? Obviously if time is infinite then speed is meaningless. How are we equating eternity and finite speed. More information is needed here.


From John chapter 1:
4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men;
5 and the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overtake it.

http://www.litvonline.com

So here we have a reference to overtaking...which implies speed. I don't think that is relevant to be honest, but an interesting spin for our topic here. Other translations however do point to darkness existing (and for those who don't know John Chapter 1, its the one that starts, in the beginning was the Word) and being unable to percieve what light was.

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 03:32 AM

Define eternity?
Are the laws in eternity the same as naturlistic laws?

The reason that creation will never work in your mind is that you will never be able to preceive what eternity is. You can't see it, you can't test it. So in your naturalistic mind, the rest does not fit, and never will. To better make you understand, I'll ask you a question you can't answer. because there is no answer so I don't expect one. But it is a question to make you think.

If you were God, and had the powers that a God would have. What naturalistic laws or limitation would apply to what you can or cannot do?

I realize you are new here, but you need to read the rules of this part of the forum. Fred runs it, and I don't think he wants debates going in here. But here's the link: http://www.evolution...p?showtopic=117

#5 Modulous

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 04:53 AM

re: debates. Fair enough, I should have looked into that before posting here. I just followed your link from the Problems with radio dating. I think I will start a new thread that covers it, in 'Young Earth vs Old Earth' I stand by my biblical translation issue though.

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 05:24 AM

I have run into this twice created light thing many times. It is a red herring. In Genesis 1:3 light is created. Genesis 1:16 is a simple re-statement of what God already did, together with some information about why.

It is as simple as that.

#7 Fred Williams

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 09:05 AM

I have run into this twice created light thing many times. It is a red herring.  In Genesis 1:3 light is created. Genesis 1:16 is a simple re-statement of what God already did, together with some information about why.

It is as simple as that.

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I would have to disagree with you here, in fact virtually every YEC at AIG, ICR, and CRS would too. :)

I’m not sure if you are aware, but you are making a similar argument Hugh Ross and Old Earthers make – since they believe the sun came before the earth in accordance with big-bang cosmology, they try to solve the scripture problem by claiming the light on day one (or in their book the day “era” of millions of years) was essentially the sun, and that it only became visible on the surface of the earth on day 4. But this isn’t the clear rendering of Genesis, in fact virtually every Hebrew scholar agrees with the YEC interpretation that the text is saying the sun was created on day 4, and these Hebrew scholars have no stake in the debate because most of them are neither Jewish or Christian.

I just had a debate with a Christian who emailed me who believes in an Old Earth/Universe. He couldn’t understand how you could have light without the sun. But as Admin3 pointed out, Revelation 21:23 makes it clear there is a distinction between light and the sun:

Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

The thrust of Admin3’s post, I believe (Admin3, please correct me if I’m wrong), is that the light being divided on day one signifies the point of time of Lucifer’s fall. When Admin3 first mentioned this to me I found it interesting because darkness is a symbol of evil. But God also may have done this to establish our 24-hour period of day and night. So this is one of those things we can’t be dogmatic about, but I certainly entertain the possibility that Satan fell on day 1 and why the light was “divided”. Sometime down the road I was going to post another speculative but interesting idea that Satan fell the moment he tempted Eve. There are some interesting verses to support this position as well, but it is again speculative and just interesting and fun musing.

BTW, one of our board members of RMCF gives a great presentation on Jesus and Light. Their properties are remarkably similar. For example,

God doesn’t change (in his attributes, sorry Calvin :D )--> speed doesn't change in it's attributes, ie speed of light is constant (one of the reasons I am skeptical of “the speed of light was faster in the past” argument),

Jesus is eternal --> light is eternal (when you reach the speed of light, time stands still).

There are 7 spectrums of light, 7 represents completeness in the Bible.

Christ cannot be corrupted --> You cannot corrupt light (you can’t shine “Darkness” into light; when you turn on a light, darkness flees the room; light can't flee from darkness since darkness is merely the absence of light).

You can't look directly at such a powerful, eternal light, without being light yourself. Recall Paul's experience when God's light shined around him (blinded him). Interesting Christ's followers are called “children of light.” (1 Thess 5:5).

Fred

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 12:54 PM

Interesting. I know you will find it hard to believe, but I just possibly might be mistaken. I seem to recall that happened once before. In 1959, I think.

I also recall that I saw a paper recently that demonstrated that the speed of light is not necessairily fixed, so that it can vary a little. I don't remember the details.

#9 Fred Williams

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 04:14 PM

Interesting. I know you will find it hard to believe, but I just possibly might be mistaken. I seem to recall that happened once before. In 1959, I think.

I also recall that I saw a paper recently that demonstrated that the speed of light is not necessairily fixed, so that it can vary a little. I don't remember the details.

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No problem. I was born in ’61 and haven’t been wrong about anything since then, so all I need is two more years and I’ll break your record. :D

Yep, there been a flurry lately in the secular science world on the speed of light possibly being faster in the past. Barry Setterfield is a YEC scientist who has been pushing this for at least 20 years. But it remains controversial among both secular and YEC scientists, and is far from established.

Fred

#10 de_skudd

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 11:27 AM

Interesting. I know you will find it hard to believe, but I just possibly might be mistaken. I seem to recall that happened once before. In 1959, I think.

I also recall that I saw a paper recently that demonstrated that the speed of light is not necessairily fixed, so that it can vary a little. I don't remember the details.

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TSOP is, in fact believed to be slowing down. It is also, according to astronomer Barry Setterfield and statistician Trevor Norman, shown evidence to have slowed exponentially since the beginning of the universe. That “even allowing for the clumsiness of early experiments, and correcting for the multiple lenses of early telescopes and other factors related to technology, the speed of light was discernibly higher 100 years ago, and as much as 7 percent higher in the 1700s. Dr. Norman confirmed that the measurements were statistically significant with a confidence of more than 99 percent.

http://www.worldnetd...RTICLE_ID=39733

Also see:

http://www.cbsnews.c...ain517850.shtml

http://math.ucr.edu/...d_of_light.html

http://creation.com/...-down-after-all

http://www2.science....lightspeed.html

#11 jason78

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 02:24 PM

TSOP is, in fact believed to be slowing down. It is also, according to astronomer Barry Setterfield and statistician Trevor Norman, shown evidence to have slowed exponentially since the beginning of the universe. That “even allowing for the clumsiness of early experiments, and correcting for the multiple lenses of early telescopes and other factors related to technology, the speed of light was discernibly higher 100 years ago, and as much as 7 percent higher in the 1700s. Dr. Norman confirmed that the measurements were statistically significant with a confidence of more than 99 percent.

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That doesn't take into account the fact that spectrographic analysis of distant stars also shows a constant speed of light.

#12 CTD

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 04:11 PM

That doesn't take into account the fact that spectrographic analysis of distant stars also shows a constant speed of light.

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Calling it "fact" doesn't divulge the assumptions behind the conclusion.

#13 Ron

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 04:47 PM

That doesn't take into account the fact that spectrographic analysis of distant stars also shows a constant speed of light.

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Your right, because the SOL at distant stars is different than the SOL here! If you read the accounts at the links posted, the red shifts are variable and are showing little consistency.

#14 Ron

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 04:48 PM

Calling it "fact" doesn't divulge the assumptions behind the conclusion.

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:mellow:

#15 Teo

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Posted 07 June 2009 - 05:08 AM

I have seen a video recently that shows that everything is made out of light. So when God said, Let there be light, he made matter.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.c...></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.c...XE&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

#16 Ron

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 09:37 AM

I have seen a video recently that shows that everything is made out of light. So when God said, Let there be light, he made matter.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/n426PazcFXE&hl=en&fs=1&%22></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/n426PazcFXE&hl=en&fs=1& type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

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Thanks for the link Teo :)

#17 CANEPHIN1

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Posted 04 August 2009 - 11:26 PM

In trying to explain creation, we often look to much towards the physical things and forget to apply the spiritual nature of God. Where did the first light come from?

And since were speaking of light. Here's something I just got finished writting about: Why God created light twice. This pretty much explains why science misses the mark when it comes to understanding God.

Here are the two verses in question.

First light:
Ge 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Second light:
Ge 1:16 And God made the two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also.

Note: God made and God said are two different ways for God to create. It is explained in more detail in the second post of this thread.

Why did God create light twice? First we have to understand that God is light.

1 John 1:5 And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

So the first light created came from God because God had not created any object that produce light yet. Now since God has no darkness in Him, as stated in 1 John 1:5. The light produced made no shadows and shined everywhere in an instance. This is so because the light was also coming from an eternal being. The light being eternal means time and distance have no hold upon it and this light would not be subjected to a constant light speed, as we know of it today. So the time and distance to the furtherest star would not apply because it all came from an eternal being. And the light that shined from this eternal being shined to the ends of the universe the instant it was created.

Why did God devide the light? Because the first light makes no shadows (as stated in 1 John 1:5), it had to be devided.

But what about the second light?
Read these verses first:
Ge 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years:
Ge 1:15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Ge 1:16 And God made the two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also.
Ge 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of heaven to give light upon the earth,
Ge 1:18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
Ge 1:19 And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

You will notice in all these verses, that the physical objects that produce light, God never says that He devides the light. He allows the light to be devided by the object that produces the natural light. This is why today all light that we see has shadows. This light also is not eternal like the first light was.

So what does this answer?
1) How light can travel billions of light years, but the earth still be less than 10,000 years old. Because it was eternal light from an eternal being.
2) Why light was created twice. To seperate the differences between what is eternal, and what is not.
3) Why the first light had to be devided. Because spiritual light has no darkness to it, as explained in 1 John 1:5.
4) Where the first light came from. God. There was no other object created that could do this.
5) Why the second light was not devided. Because it was not eternal like the first. It casts it's own shadows, so it has darkness already. So it makes day and night just by being there.

But here's where it goes more indepth about the spiritual side of the first light division. In the spiritual realm, light stands for good, darkness stands for evil. So for God to make darkness, in His spiritual light without what goes into darkness (evil), would deny the truthfulness of the verse that says God has no darkness. So who do you think the darkness was made for? Satan, and 1/3 of the angels that were cast out with him.

And because this puts satan on this earth in time to tempt eve, it all fits.

Added: Also notice the first light creation actually a reference made: Genesis 1:And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

The first light has a direct reference to it, and only it as being good. The second light does not have this direct reference. It was after all the natural things that were created that produce the natural light did God say it was good.
Here's a verse that confirms what light and darkness mean in the spiritual realm: Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Also, the first light being eternal fulfills God saying that He is the alpha and omega. Alpha = First light, or beginning light, Omega = Light Being eternal and shining to the ends of everything. Because God says He is the alpha, and that He is also light, God had to be the first light created. So I guess you could also call the first light, God's alpha light.
Here's another verse to confirm this:

Revelation 21:23
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

The light of God is the glory of God.

Revelation 21:24-25

24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

So what do we have so far?

First light=good (spiritual light) Plus it had to be devided by God to make a realm for spiritual evil (darkness).

Second light+the natural objects that produce light=good (physical or natual light). And the second light itself caused day and night just by being there, and no division to make darkness was required.
Ge 1:16 And God made the two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also.

Here's another difference in the two lights. One was spoken into existance: Ge 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

The second light was made: Ge 1:16 And God made the two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also.
What do these verses prove?
1) Verse 23 shows that when the light of God is shining, the light from the sun or moon is not needed.
2) And that people will be able to walk and live in this light, shows that this light from God can also support life, even before the sun and moon were created.
3) And because this shows the same exact situation that was present at the light creation (no sun, no moon). It's a demonstration that neither was needed for God to create and sustain life.

So the next time someone asks a question about how was there life without the sun or moon, show them these verses. The ones that really don't care about God or His truth, will make snide remarks about this. Those who are searching for truth in God's word will be amazed that the answer to this was there the whole time.
But, there is another questioned answered here. Because all of this applies to what is spiritual, the answer to something that has eluded us is now answered and totally denies the Gap Theory.

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The form and void spoke of here was a refernce to something in the spiritual relm, not the physical. Since God was applying His spiritual light to the earth right after saying the earth was without form and void, as shown in these verse:

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Here we see only the glory of God shinning upon the earth (His light).
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

And this is confirmed when God says that the light is good. What light is good? Spiritual light from God. But then we see something happen to this light, it's divided, and the term used to describe it is darkness. When God's word refers to what is evil as being dark, darkness is always used. So what just happened when God seperated the light from darkness? God was fixing the form and void that existed in the spiritual realm also refered to as the heavens. God set up the bounderies for good and evil.
But can we be sure of this?

Genesis1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Notice the word heaven (singular) refers to one heaven. In the spiritual realm there are three heavens. So when were they all made? Your seeing the division of one heaven with the division of light. You see, the main heaven, God's realm, already existed (heaven that was there even before creation). Now the order and bounderies between good and evil are in place. And when man is created, his physical heaven was now complete with the two spiritual heavens, which now equals three heavens.

Notice what it says in Genesis 2:1.
1. Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

The word heaven now becomes heavens at the end of creation. So the term without form and void, was a reference to the bouderies of the physical and spiritual world being set up. But can the three heavens be confirmed?

II Corinthians 12: 2, I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

The seperation between good and evil did not exist before actual creation, which caused the form and void problem spoke of. But when God was finished creating the bounderies for the three heavens, the form and void problem was fixed.

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first i would just like to say i am a Christian and i do believe the bible even if i dont understand alot of it. im here just to ask a question....if gen.1:3 is just spiritual light why in verse 5 does it say the light was called day and the darkness he called night when that is the job of the sun and moon on the 4th day?..once again not that i dont believe it i just dont understand it

#18 Adam Nagy

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Posted 05 August 2009 - 06:41 AM

first i would just like to say i am a Christian and i do believe the bible even if i dont understand alot of it. im here just to ask a question....if gen.1:3 is just spiritual light why in verse 5 does it say the light was called day and the darkness he called night when that is the job of the sun and moon  on the 4th day?..once again not that i dont believe it i just dont understand it

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Hi CANEPHIN1, welcome to EFT.

Read this if you get a chance. I believe this is one of the best explanations for the creation account:

http://www.evolution...?showtopic=1916

There are a couple of unconventional ideas in that explanation but they make sense. Our effort to speculate on the conditions of ex nihilo creation is always stuck in a realm of speculation but I'm sure the answers will be profound and we'll have a jolly good time sitting at Jesus' feet when he tells us how it works. ;)

#19 erawdrah

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 02:21 PM

Psalms 104:1 Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.

Psalms 104:2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:

First light was God himself

The Sun, Moon, Stars and Planets were not made until day 4.

Why did he create these things. Sun for light during the day, Moon and Stars for light during the night and Stars and Planets for signs and for seasons and for days and years. It says "God set them in the firmament of the heaven" on day 4. So they couldn't have been there on day 1.

Job 38:19 Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof,

Light was created in motion(way) and darkness in a place.

For the stars and the galaxies being millions of light years away, we cannot measure them accurately enough to state their distance. The way science measures the distance is of the stars is by parallax method. When using parallax, you can measure distances easily when you baseline is large. The problem with parallax method in space is we are limited by 2 AU (astronomical units). The way they get a baseline of 2 AU is by measuring in January then remeasuring in July. That assumes that you can draw a line from the earth now to the earth 6 months earlier. Then you measure the angle's of the triangle. If you know the degrees of two of the three angle's you can solve for the 3rd. When you know all the angle's you can solve for distance. Here's the problem. If we assume the closet star is 5 billion light years away then here's the equation. 26,500,000,000,000,000 miles with a baseline of 93,000,000,000 miles. Let me give an example that can be understood. Take a baseline of 1 foot in Florida and the item you want to measure in Chicago, Ill. Now figure out the three angles. Your triangle is so narrow you can't possibly measure the angles. If you're off by 0.001 degree that's a huge difference in the distance. We don't know exactly how far the stars are away from the earth. This is taking assumption and using it as fact. Below are diagrams of parallax. The first one show the method, the second shows how narrow it would be measuring the closest star.

Posted Image

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I guess I don't know how to post a picture. :o

#20 masonandrews

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 12:22 PM

Define eternity?
Are the laws in eternity the same as naturlistic laws?

The reason that creation will never work in your mind is that you will never be able to preceive what eternity is. You can't see it, you can't test it. So in your naturalistic mind, the rest does not fit, and never will. To better make you understand, I'll ask you a question you can't answer. because there is no answer so I don't expect one. But it is a question to make you think.

If you were God, and had the powers that a God would have. What naturalistic laws or limitation would apply to what you can or cannot do?

I realize you are new here, but you need to read the rules of this part of the forum. Fred runs it, and I don't think he wants debates going in here. But here's the link: http://www.evolution...p?showtopic=117

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