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#1 MamaElephant

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 05:30 AM

Just so you know what I am going through, I am realizing the error in this doctrine of JWs as pasted below, and my mother is pressing the issue. I fear she won't stop until she brands me an apostate and shuns me:

http://www.jehovahsw...creetslave.html

In Matthew 24:45-51 and Luke 12:42-48, we read Jesus' illustration of the "faithful and wise servant" (KJV). In the Watchtower Society's New World Translation, this is rendered as the "faithful and discreet slave". Many may not realize that this is quite possibly THE KEY POINT to discuss when having a conversation with Jehovah's Witnesses.

The reason it so crucial for the average JW to have a correct understanding of the "faithful and discreet slave" is because he has been taught that his very salvation depends on it! He must identify this "slave" and faithfully follow its teachings. Concerning the "slave", the Society had this to say....

"The fact is, many things are needed to be a real Christian....a Christian has to recognize the AUTHORITY of the "faithful and discreet slave." (The Watchtower, October 1, 1991, pg. 20). In the AWAKE! (October 8, 1991, pg. 13), we read the following: "Thus, we are enlightened by God's answers to present-day problems, answers that reveal where we are in the stream of time and how we can successfully plan for the future. Those answers come to us through the channel of "the faithful and discreet anointed slave" class, WHICH USES THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY AS ITS PUBLISHING AGENCY."

#2 ikester7579

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 06:20 AM

You are now facing spiritual warfare for what you are doing. What this shows is that Satan does not like what you are doing. He will fight you anyway possible. Make your family mad at you, turn you friends against you etc... But remember, this is also a test. One God has set before you. Why? You are asking something from God that He has to test you for to see if you are worthy. Something He holds dear and will not give it unless you endure and pass this test. The type of truth you seek requires this. Why?

There are to many Christians out there now who take God's truth and twist it making God to look like a deceiver and liar. God does not want anymore Christians like that. This test you must go through weeds them out. Will you hold fast to the Word of God forsaking all others, or will you cave and only go halfway? That is what God needs to know before He gives you what you want.

mt 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

mt 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

Forsake: To renounce or turn away from entirely.

If you do not sway from your goal, even though many will try to sway you. That is a form of forsaking. People tried to sway me, and still do. I reject their attempts. If they were to say that if I don't believe as they do, they could no longer be friends or family to me. I'd tell them to go their own way. That may seem harsh, but the choice is an important one. You have to decide and it cannot be halfway. If you do it halfway you leave the door open for people to constantly hound you to come back because you did not commit. And you won't get what you want, or what you prayed for because you only went halfway.

People either have to accept what you are trying to do, or they don't. And what's so hard about accepting what you want anyway? So you see even though they will make it sound like it's your fault, it's really not. You have to understand that.

The point that has to be made is that you don't want to close the door completely unless that is what they want. Because then it becomes their doing and not yours.

God is the only person who can judge you. So if your mom tries to brand you an apostate, that is not how God will see you. Does God take orders from your mom? So it's all a test. It's all smoke and mirrors. It's what Satan does best and you have to see it for what it really is and ask yourself: What do you really want? What do you really care about? What do you want to accomplish here? And can you do that with what's currently going on?

If you allow others to make your decisions for you, then you will never learn how to allow God to guide you.

The reason this hurts is because it's the main thing that's keeping you from seeing this truth. And starting out on your path to finding God's truth. Anytime you squash what your flesh wants it hurts. Question: Can you do what needs to be done with all these people doing what they are doing? Then what is it that needs to be done so that you can start?

The first step is always the most scary because you are stepping into unknown territory in your life. But you will never know what waits on the other side until you do take that step.

My mother also did not like what I was doing. but she soon learned that I was gaining wisdom about things to answer questions that her, her pastor, or anyone she knew could not answer. That won her over and she ended up supporting me. Soon she was asking me questions about the Bible when she used to be the one I had to ask.

There is no argument you can present to your mom that going to change her mind because she is a JW through and through, right? I think you know that. There is only a decision to make.

And I will be praying for you.

#3 supamk3speed

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 07:23 AM

I will definately pray for you, i hope everything works out.

#4 MamaElephant

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 07:47 AM

I will definately pray for you, i hope everything works out.

Well, my mother's attitude caused me to read the Bible and as you may already know, it has worked out for my salvation! :wub: I am still needing to stay secretive so that my family doesn't cut all communication with me. If they do that then I cannot share the message of salvation with them and I am hoping to bring them into Christ.

I just wanted to update my dear family here on these boards, as some have sent messages with concern. I am feeling the need to slow down. I am trying to study a chapter of the Bible in depth each day. The Church that I visited gave me a paperback copy of the KJV and I am comparing it to my Living Bible and taking notes. 1 John has been of the most encouragement as the JWs teach that not all Christians are God's children. My husband is very concerned over my identification with the Baptist Church. I have only been there once, but I referred to the church as "we" in a conversation and he is very worried that I am going from one organization to another when our only leader should be Christ. I know that the Spirit led me to that Church, but I don't know that I am meant to stay there. I needed their simple message of salvation and love, (1 John 5:1;11-13) and what is more, so far, they have only confirmed what Christ has already taught me with the Word and Spirit (1 John2:23;27,28), not taught me anything new, so I feel very comfortable there. I am reaching out to more local people and friends here and I have learned that many of them had their whole congregation praying for me! Everyday I am open to and discovering more love.

Thank you all for your part in bringing me to the light.

#5 MamaElephant

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 07:32 AM

Should I be embarrassed and worried that I am selfish for posting so much about myself right now?

I just wanted to let you all know that my husband is open to attending the small Baptist Church that I was drawn to and told me to go ahead and go tonight, and start making friends! He is also considering enrolling the kids in AWANA! Hallelujah!

#6 MamaElephant

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 01:46 PM

My mom is trying to invite us for dinner and talk us into attending a JW talk on Sunday and "not give up". Please keep praying for my family.

LOVE in CHRIST!

#7 Levi

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 06:51 AM

The essence of Christianity is that Jesus is Lord, He is in the Father and the Father is in Him and if we are in Him and He is in us then we are one! Who can stand against us if the Lord is for us?

It is great to read about people coming to knowledge of the truth Mama! I can identify with your testimony because I myself was brought to salvation with something that was written in the watchtower. It's Ironic that an apostasy can actually result in a genuine salvation.

I always discuss the divinity of Jesus when talking to JW's, As you know they have removed all reference to the Lord and replaced it with Jehovah, but due to the unenlightened nature or the fact that Satan always makes errors, they have completely missed the pre incarnation appearances of Jesus in the O.T.

If you have a discussion with a J.W. and tell them that you believe Jesus is not just the son of God but that he is God's ONLY BEGOTTEN son and as such He is an inseparable part of God Himself, they will always argue that Jesus is not divine but that He is in fact a demi God. This is where you can mutually go to the axis of God commanding that we worship no other gods. There are examples of Angels appearing and telling people to get up and stop worshiping them because it's wrong, one such at the beginning of Revelation, if you use THEIR book and then go to Joshua 5:14 you will find a pre incarnate appearance of Jesus, Joshua falls to his face and Jesus tells him to take off his shoes because the ground is Holy. This is no ordinary angel and Joshua is paying obeisance to Him without admonishment.

You question them as to why Joshua is worshiping this "man" when we have clearly been told to worship no other gods and there are examples of angels quickly putting people right!

I have waved good bye to a few head scratching JW's before lol they avoid my house like the plague now, unfortunately I think I'm on the black list down at the local but the main thing is that you give them the tools to think about Jesus' divinity and that they may have been mislead.


All the best with your family!

#8 MamaElephant

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 09:09 PM

Thanks so much for writing me, Levi!

The essence of Christianity is that Jesus is Lord, He is in the Father and the Father is in Him and if we are in Him and He is in us then we are one!Amen! Who can stand against us if the Lord is for us?

It is great to read about people coming to knowledge of the truth Mama! I can identify with your testimony because I myself was brought to salvation with something that was written in the watchtower. Yes, actually, I was trying to be a JW again, so read a watchtower. I saw the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses comparing themselves to Moses. Well, that did it for me. How dare they? It's Ironic that an apostasy can actually result in a genuine salvation.

I always discuss the divinity of Jesus when talking to JW's, As you know they have removed all reference to the Lord and replaced it with Jehovah, Yes, it was so confusing to me at first. I had to go through and look at the context and some wonderful Christians at a local church are helping me. but due to the unenlightened nature or the fact that Satan always makes errors, they have completely missed the pre incarnation appearances of Jesus in the O.T.

If you have a discussion with a J.W. and tell them that you believe Jesus is not just the son of God but that he is God's ONLY BEGOTTEN son and as such He is an inseparable part of God Himself, they will always argue that Jesus is not divine but that He is in fact a demi God. This is where you can mutually go to the axis of God commanding that we worship no other gods. There are examples of Angels appearing and telling people to get up and stop worshiping them because it's wrong, one such at the beginning of Revelation, if you use THEIR book and then go to Joshua 5:14 you will find a pre incarnate appearance of Jesus, Joshua falls to his face and Jesus tells him to take off his shoes because the ground is Holy. This is no ordinary angel and Joshua is paying obeisance to Him without admonishment.

You question them as to why Joshua is worshiping this "man" when we have clearly been told to worship no other gods and there are examples of angels quickly putting people right!

I have waved good bye to a few head scratching JW's before lol they avoid my house like the plague now, unfortunately I think I'm on the black list down at the local but the main thing is that you give them the tools to think about Jesus' divinity and that they may have been mislead.


All the best with your family!

My main bible study topic right now is examples of worship or prayer to Jesus, so I appreciate the example in Joshua. I am working toward baptism and I will share my testimony when I finish writing it. Thanks for sharing with me.

#9 Levi

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 01:57 AM

Thanks so much for writing me, Levi! My main bible study topic right now is examples of worship or prayer to Jesus, so I appreciate the example in Joshua. I am working toward baptism and I will share my testimony when I finish writing it. Thanks for sharing with me.



Don't mention it! :D It's an amazing issue that if looked at one can see the trans dimensional nature of The resurrected Lord (He could appear in buildings with locked doors). And It also shows the transcendent nature of God who is outside of our time and space domain.

I had a wonderful experience in which I was blessed with the revelation of the beings that are helping us, they walk up and down the time line as if it where a corridor. The amazing thing about that is you soon realize that there is no such thing as a prayer to late! WOW.

#10 MamaElephant

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 04:31 PM

I left my worries at the altar today. I put my burden down and Christ will pick it up. The battle is not mine. Hallelujah! I love my church.

I pray that my parents hearts will soften toward Christians and they will not believe that they have to fear or hate me. I pray that the Holy Spirit guide my words and actions when they confront me and that God's will take place. I pray that my husband will see Christ's love and accept Him as His savior. I pray that God removes our distrust and confusion sown by the Jehovah's Witness indoctrination. I thank God for directing me to His people so that I may heal. And I pray this through Christ Jesus. Amen.

#11 Calypsis4

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 05:19 PM

Just so you know what I am going through, I am realizing the error in this doctrine of JWs as pasted below, and my mother is pressing the issue. I fear she won't stop until she brands me an apostate and shuns me:

http://www.jehovahsw...creetslave.html

In Matthew 24:45-51 and Luke 12:42-48, we read Jesus' illustration of the "faithful and wise servant" (KJV). In the Watchtower Society's New World Translation, this is rendered as the "faithful and discreet slave". Many may not realize that this is quite possibly THE KEY POINT to discuss when having a conversation with Jehovah's Witnesses.

The reason it so crucial for the average JW to have a correct understanding of the "faithful and discreet slave" is because he has been taught that his very salvation depends on it! He must identify this "slave" and faithfully follow its teachings. Concerning the "slave", the Society had this to say....

"The fact is, many things are needed to be a real Christian....a Christian has to recognize the AUTHORITY of the "faithful and discreet slave." (The Watchtower, October 1, 1991, pg. 20). In the AWAKE! (October 8, 1991, pg. 13), we read the following: "Thus, we are enlightened by God's answers to present-day problems, answers that reveal where we are in the stream of time and how we can successfully plan for the future. Those answers come to us through the channel of "the faithful and discreet anointed slave" class, WHICH USES THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY AS ITS PUBLISHING AGENCY."



You got them. (my prayers)

Stay in there, dear friend. The Lord will help you if you stand for His word. But it never has been easy.

#12 MamaElephant

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 05:25 PM

More prayers needed.

Will you all have your churches pray for us? Pray that we are strengthened as we are fighting a spiritual warfare and are exhausted. My husband needs wisdom and direction in choosing a new way to support his family. Also pray that our family members who are still blinded have the scales removed from their eyes. Thank you.

2 Timothy 2:25-26 Be humble when you correct people who oppose you. Maybe God will lead them to turn to Him and learn the truth. They have been trapped by the devil, and he makes them obey him, but God may help them escape.

2 Corinthians 4:4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

#13 Geode

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 05:37 AM

More prayers needed.

Will you all have your churches pray for us? Pray that we are strengthened as we are fighting a spiritual warfare and are exhausted. My husband needs wisdom and direction in choosing a new way to support his family. Also pray that our family members who are still blinded have the scales removed from their eyes. Thank you.

2 Timothy 2:25-26 Be humble when you correct people who oppose you. Maybe God will lead them to turn to Him and learn the truth. They have been trapped by the devil, and he makes them obey him, but God may help them escape.

2 Corinthians 4:4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

I will also pray for you and your family. My impression is that you should take things slowly, as that will aid understanding with your mother and others. When there are strong beliefs in contrasting directions emotions will be engaged. When parting with the Mormons I still was willing to attend some meetings with my mother to help keep the peace. But I do realize that this may have been easier for me than the situation you face. My beliefs had changed from when I was the fully active member pursuing Mormonism and I felt I had to part company and seek the spirtual strength I was finding in a very welcoming Presbyterian congregation. My mother even joined me there and enjoyed some meetings. But coming out of a life as an observant Mormon was perhaps easier for me since I still considered them to be Christians, just Christians with different concepts, some of which I now found musguided.

#14 MamaElephant

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 02:07 PM

My mom is so depressed about me "leaving Jehovah's organization" that she doesn't want to live. Now, you tell me if she has God's Spirit.

What's even more bizarre about her saying this is that all I have done is allow my daughter to have non-JW friends and quoted some Bible verses to her. I have not written a letter of disassociation or said anything that would cause disassociation.

Please pray for my mother. It is in your hands, Lord.

#15 ikester7579

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 08:44 PM

There are several spirits working here:
1) Spirit of suicide (not wnating to live).
2) Spirit of guilt (making M.E. feel guilty).
3) Spirit of fear.
4) Spirit of depression.
5) Spirit of worry.

These are the root cause of the problems. To pray to have the root cause removed in Christ name is to ensue spiritual warfare which allows God to act on our will.

Mamaelephant, do you still have JW stuff in your house?

#16 Geode

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 01:26 AM

There are several spirits working here:
1) Spirit of suicide (not wnating to live).
2) Spirit of guilt (making M.E. feel guilty).
3) Spirit of fear.
4) Spirit of depression.
5) Spirit of worry.

These are the root cause of the problems. To pray to have the root cause removed in Christ name is to ensue spiritual warfare which allows God to act on our will.

Mamaelephant, do you still have JW stuff in your house?

You make some very good points here. These are all elements in play as the situation has been described.

#17 MamaElephant

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 09:26 AM

There are several spirits working here:
1) Spirit of suicide (not wnating to live).
2) Spirit of guilt (making M.E. feel guilty).
3) Spirit of fear.
4) Spirit of depression.
5) Spirit of worry.

These are the root cause of the problems. To pray to have the root cause removed in Christ name is to ensue spiritual warfare which allows God to act on our will.

Mamaelephant, do you still have JW stuff in your house?

Thanks for the tips on praying.

All JWs that apostatize to Christianity and are in a position to help others keep JW stuff in their house as part of their ministry. One of the friends we are studying with uses the New World Translation more than any other translation for the same reason. I already threw some things away, but my husband is determined to help people by disproving JW doctrine. I find focusing on that discouraging, and we have figured out this week that it really isn't good for me.

#18 ikester7579

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 01:11 PM

Thanks for the tips on praying.

All JWs that apostatize to Christianity and are in a position to help others keep JW stuff in their house as part of their ministry. One of the friends we are studying with uses the New World Translation more than any other translation for the same reason. I already threw some things away, but my husband is determined to help people by disproving JW doctrine. I find focusing on that discouraging, and we have figured out this week that it really isn't good for me.


What the problem is about literature like that is whether it promotes a JW lie about God, or exposes a JW lie a lie about God. One can allow evil spirits while the other will not. What a Christian owns tells God where they stand.

Example: A preacher I listen to often told this story. He received a call from a member of the church who had a rash of bad things happen to them and could not figure out why. So the preacher went through a list of things to make sure they were right with God. And they answered all of them correctly. So the preacher came to the house figuring that the problem maybe more involved then something he could solve over the phone. When he arrived and she opened the door, he saw the problem right away. They had pictures of painted dragons all over the house. So he told her about it and she did not believe him. So he showed her in God's word where Satan is called a dragon, and that having pictures of him could be considered idol worship. So after he left she threw them out. Once gone her troubles left also.

Having JW material of promotion is like having the satanic bible. Because it is a lie about God right? Which means it's being used by Satan, right? So it's basically Satanic material, understand? Now you might say that these other people have this and have no problems. Remember when I told you that Satan only comes after those whom he deems a threat to his kingdom? Now what does that tell you about the difference between you and the others around you?

It says that God has plans for you and Satan knows this. So he comes after you and not them. There is a saying in spiritual warfare: New levels brings new devils.

Now what does the JW material have to do with anything? When you own things that are purely unGodly, then Satan has the power to do things even though you pray, understand? God cannot set up a hedge of spiritual protection for you family when within that hedge he would also be protecting what is against Him. If God protects you then He is also showing that He condones that you own that satanic material, understand? So God's hedge of protection cannot fully protect you because of this.

There are rules to spiritual warfare, and you are learning it the hard way. But if you persist on keeping the JW material, don't expect things to get better. Now if you need material for JW stuff, get the material that "exposes" it. And throw away the material that "promotes" it.

#19 MamaElephant

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 04:29 AM

We had a fire last night. Half of the lies are gone. We ran out of room for the ashes. Knowledge that Leads to Everlasting Life... A LIE! You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth... LIES! United in Worship of the Only True God... The Biggest LIE! The do not know God at all! We included the children and ripped out specific pages to point out the fallacies. I want our family cleansed from the lies and confusion sown by this evil propaganda that twists the scriptures into teachings of the anti-christ. It was not easy. Some beautiful truths are included on those pages too. It is too bad they have to hide them among the poison.

#20 ikester7579

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  • I'm non-denominational

Posted 31 August 2011 - 03:17 PM

We had a fire last night. Half of the lies are gone. We ran out of room for the ashes. Knowledge that Leads to Everlasting Life... A LIE! You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth... LIES! United in Worship of the Only True God... The Biggest LIE! The do not know God at all! We included the children and ripped out specific pages to point out the fallacies. I want our family cleansed from the lies and confusion sown by this evil propaganda that twists the scriptures into teachings of the anti-christ. It was not easy. Some beautiful truths are included on those pages too. It is too bad they have to hide them among the poison.


And I will get with you on doing s spiritual cleaning of your house. You see now since you got rid of the bad stuff, the bad spirits no longer have a right to be there. Now you can run them off and I will tell you how when we talk on the messenger.

Once done you will feel as if a mountain of oppression was lifted off your shoulders.




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