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What About Ham Being Cursed For Seeing His Father's Nakedness?


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#61 Newhope

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 01:32 PM

I'd just like to pop in and say this discussion is very enlightening. I had wondered why such a strong repremand was made for a seemingly innocent act. I put it down to some sort of copy error as it seemed an unfair punishment.

You know..and this is a different tack..with all the research on epigentics, I sometimes think that behaviour and things like that, who you are inside, has an expressive genomic response that may be passed down to the next generation, similarly to other sorts of epigenetic inheritance. This may speak to Adams and Eve 'passing on sin' and curses to generations or families. Just a fleeting idea!

#62 ikester7579

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 01:00 PM

I'd just like to pop in and say this discussion is very enlightening. I had wondered why such a strong repremand was made for a seemingly innocent act. I put it down to some sort of copy error as it seemed an unfair punishment.

You know..and this is a different tack..with all the research on epigentics, I sometimes think that behaviour and things like that, who you are inside, has an expressive genomic response that may be passed down to the next generation, similarly to other sorts of epigenetic inheritance. This may speak to Adams and Eve 'passing on sin' and curses to generations or families. Just a fleeting idea!


Because Noah ruled over the people with a freewill choice (they were not forced to allow him to rule). The people only followed because they respected him and his ability to communicate with God. Therefore his respect was also earned by him being the godly example. Ham's actions was an attempt to destroy all that. Once he can get the people to laugh Noah to shame, the respect would be gone.

In spiritual warfare, Ham was being used by Satan to knock down God's appointed authority (Noah). Noah taking swift action to curse Ham showed the people that his authority was not threatened by such an action. And the people did not lose respect for Noah, and Ham actions were revealed for what they were.

#63 MamaElephant

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 02:48 PM

I'd just like to pop in and say this discussion is very enlightening. I had wondered why such a strong repremand was made for a seemingly innocent act. I put it down to some sort of copy error as it seemed an unfair punishment.

You know..and this is a different tack..with all the research on epigentics, I sometimes think that behaviour and things like that, who you are inside, has an expressive genomic response that may be passed down to the next generation, similarly to other sorts of epigenetic inheritance. This may speak to Adams and Eve 'passing on sin' and curses to generations or families. Just a fleeting idea!

Hello! I have thought along the same lines about epigenetics.

#64 Teejay

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 06:18 PM

Hello all, I guess I got in on this late. Just noticed it. I agree whole heartedly. When I teach a Bible class on this, here is what I teach:



Noah’s Intoxication




If we hear five theologians expound on this event, we will get five different sermons. Some say that Ham’s sin was h*m*s*xuality. And some say this and some say that. But the only one that makes sense is incest. Let’s examine it. But some things to consider are that Moses wrote about this some centuries later, and Canaan, whom Noah cursed, was not yet born but was the result of Ham’s incestuous relationship with his mother.



And Noah began to be a husbandman, and he planted a vineyard. And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered in his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father [his mother], and told [perhaps bragged to] his two brethren without. And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father [their mother]; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father’s [mother’s] nakedness. And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son [Ham] had done unto him. And he said, Cursed be Canaan [the yet unborn heir of Ham’s incestuous relationship with his mother]; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. Gen. 9:20-25



A thousand years from now when people read, “He’s a few fries short of a happy meal” or “his elevator doesn’t go all the way to the top,” the meaning will be totally lost. The “nakedness of his father” is a Hebrew idiomatic expression which means “your father’s wife.” Would Shem and Japheth have had to back into the tent to keep from viewing Noah’s nakedness? No! We can see this idiom elsewhere in the Bible.



The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shall not uncover her nakedness [a nice way of saying do not have S@xual relations with her]. The nakedness of thy father’s wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father’s nakedness. The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad [related by blood or marriage], even their nakedness thou shall not uncover. Lev. 18:7-9



Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father’s brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt. Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter-in-law: she is thy son’s wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness. Lev. 18:14-15



And the man that lieth with his father’s wife hath uncovered his father’s nakedness…. [crystal clear here] Lev. 20:11



And if a man shall lie with his uncle’s wife, he hath uncovered his uncle’s nakedness…. And if a man shall take his brother’s wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother’s nakedness…. Lev. 20:20-21



In thee [Israel] have they discovered their fathers’ nakedness: in thee have they humbled [violated] her that was set apart [isolated] for pollution [during her menstrual period]. Ezek. 22:10



Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness [during her menstrual period]. Lev. 18:19



There are more references in the Bible to demonstrate clearly that “uncovering your father’s nakedness” means seducing his wife. Noah became intoxicated, and he could have given some wine to his wife as well. And Ham could have also imbibed. Why is this incident significant?



This incestuous relationship produced a cursed line of descendants—Canaan. The whole story is about Canaan. Through Canaan came the Canaanites, Jebusites, Amorites, Girgashites, Hivites, Arkites, Arvadites, Zemorites, and Hamathites and the Democrites and the Republishites even. Well maybe not these last two. When God would later bring Israel out of Egypt into the Promised Land, God would instruct Israel to “utterly drive them out.”



In the above story, none is innocent. Although God is not against drinking alcohol, He is against being a drunkard. Noah drank too much, probably passed out, and was not a protector of his wife. Ham probably imbibed and did what he might not have done sober. And Noah’s wife does not appear to be a rape victim. And, let us not forget that these people had just left a pre-Flood society where wickedness and perversion were the norm.



God also shows here that having children as a result of sin has terrible consequences and should be stigmatized. For example, when illegitimate offspring are stigmatized, women will not be so ready to have children out of wedlock. In our society, where we are so loving and nicer than God and illegitimate births are condoned, 30 percent of all white children have no dads and 90 percent of all black children are fatherless. God knows best.



Had this event occurred after God gave His law to Moses, the punishment for Ham and Noah’s wife (if she had not been raped), would have been the death penalty.

TeeJay





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