Jump to content


Photo

Pope Benedict: Evolution Does Not Conflict


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
29 replies to this topic

#1 HatsOffAndApplause

HatsOffAndApplause

    Junior Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 35 posts
  • Interests:My interests include the intelligent, interesting, and friendly discussion of the theory of evolution, abiogenesis, earth age, religious philosophy, religious history, and any other scientific or philosophical discussion which applies to today.
  • Age: 21
  • no affiliation
  • Theistic Evolutionist
  • Terre Haute, Indiana

Posted 26 July 2007 - 11:45 AM

This forum and its contributors are consistently discussing and debating the conflict between creationism and the theory of evolution. Now, Pope Benedict XVI, an internationally prominant religious figure, claims that such a conflict does not exist.

News.com Story

MSNBC Story

So I ask, what is the reaction to these comments from this site's contributors? Does he make a good point? Has he made a mistake? Should we just ignore him and move on? Has he gone senile?

Obviously, the pope's statement is not proof of either evolution or creationism. Furthermore, the pope does not represent all Christians by any means. But do you agree with him? Do you disagree? Why?

Further reading on Pope Benedict XVI with regards to evolution:

USA Today article. Pope stresses evolution not proven.

All Things Catholic Article

Pope Challenges Evolutionists

An Official Statement From The Vatican

Discuss!

#2 Al650

Al650

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 153 posts
  • Age: 47
  • no affiliation
  • Creationist
  • Michigan

Posted 26 July 2007 - 06:29 PM

"the theory of evolution is not a complete, scientifically proven theory." Also, both Pope Benedict and John Paul II have made it clear that whatever the case for evolution, God cannot be excluded from His creation.


Currently, small groups are distributing propaganda over the internet, including this site, to press for a universal belief in evolution. Their goal is simple: once evolution is widely accepted, God will be discarded. I have decided the goal is described by the following phrase: there is no God, only Science.

Concerned about a Theocracy? I say, fear the coming Technocracy that will be run by men who will not have your best interests at heart.



May the Lord, Jesus Christ, be praised,
Al

#3 ikester7579

ikester7579

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 12500 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida
  • Interests:God, creation, etc...
  • Age: 48
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • I'm non-denominational

Posted 26 July 2007 - 10:29 PM

Man does not dictate truth to the world. The word of God does. Do you actually think we are going to be judged on how we followed the Pope? Nope, we are judged by the word of God. Each individual will be judged according to the words that are written, not by words spoken by the Pope.

Is this a promotion of the catholic religion, or anything that agrees with evolution?

#4 HatsOffAndApplause

HatsOffAndApplause

    Junior Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 35 posts
  • Interests:My interests include the intelligent, interesting, and friendly discussion of the theory of evolution, abiogenesis, earth age, religious philosophy, religious history, and any other scientific or philosophical discussion which applies to today.
  • Age: 21
  • no affiliation
  • Theistic Evolutionist
  • Terre Haute, Indiana

Posted 27 July 2007 - 09:20 AM

No, not at all. I just really want to see if there are any opinions or discussions relating to the Catholic church's stance towards evolution, and how that agrees or conflicts with the opinions of the forum members.

That, and I thought it'd be cool to bring a current event into the topic discussion.

This topic is not, by any means, evidence for the theory of evolution, or for the validity of the Catholic denomination of Christianity. This is simply the statement of an internationally influential man.

God's peace

#5 jason78

jason78

    Veteran Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1349 posts
  • Age: 30
  • no affiliation
  • Atheist
  • Birmingham, UK

Posted 28 July 2007 - 08:44 PM

Christians may well believe that the Pope has been directly appointed by god to rule the church. I'll take his commentary on scientific issues with a pinch of salt however.

#6 lwj2op2

lwj2op2

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 292 posts
  • Location:Ridgecrest, California
  • Interests:God, Family, Country, friends.<br />Apologetics, though not well versed.<br />Health, running, bike riding, outdoors.<br />Divorced (by my wife) father of four-23s, 20d, 18s &amp; 13s.<br />Remarried 2 more kiddos 6d, 4s<br />River Boat Captain about 16 years on the Colorado.<br />Power Plant operator at a Geothermal site, just past 5 years.
  • Age: 43
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Ridgecrest, California

Posted 30 July 2007 - 09:43 PM

No, not at all.  I just really want to see if there are any opinions or discussions relating to the Catholic church's stance towards evolution, and how that agrees or conflicts with the opinions of the forum members.

That, and I thought it'd be cool to bring a current event into the topic discussion.

This topic is not, by any means, evidence for the theory of evolution, or for the validity of the Catholic denomination of Christianity.  This is simply the statement of an internationally influential man.

God's peace

View Post


The Catholic Church is far from an authority on Biblical doctrine. I know that seems strange to an outsider. Many Christians do not consider Catholicism to be a denomination of Christianity due to many doctrinal errors contained in the Catholic church.

The Catholic church is suspected by some to be the seat from which Antichrist will spring.

Regardless of the title held by any person, if they make a statement which is false, they remove them self as reputable.

#7 lwj2op2

lwj2op2

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 292 posts
  • Location:Ridgecrest, California
  • Interests:God, Family, Country, friends.<br />Apologetics, though not well versed.<br />Health, running, bike riding, outdoors.<br />Divorced (by my wife) father of four-23s, 20d, 18s &amp; 13s.<br />Remarried 2 more kiddos 6d, 4s<br />River Boat Captain about 16 years on the Colorado.<br />Power Plant operator at a Geothermal site, just past 5 years.
  • Age: 43
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Ridgecrest, California

Posted 30 July 2007 - 09:45 PM

Christians may well believe that the Pope has been directly appointed by god to rule the church.  I'll take his commentary on scientific issues with a pinch of salt however.

View Post


The majority of Christians do not.

Most Catholics do.

#8 Guest_kega_*

Guest_kega_*
  • Guests

Posted 31 July 2007 - 02:10 AM

The majority of Christians do not.

Most Catholics do.

View Post


The majority of Christians ARE Catholics.

#9 lwj2op2

lwj2op2

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 292 posts
  • Location:Ridgecrest, California
  • Interests:God, Family, Country, friends.<br />Apologetics, though not well versed.<br />Health, running, bike riding, outdoors.<br />Divorced (by my wife) father of four-23s, 20d, 18s &amp; 13s.<br />Remarried 2 more kiddos 6d, 4s<br />River Boat Captain about 16 years on the Colorado.<br />Power Plant operator at a Geothermal site, just past 5 years.
  • Age: 43
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Ridgecrest, California

Posted 31 July 2007 - 10:12 AM

The majority of Christians ARE Catholics.

View Post


Actually it is about a 50/50 split; Christian vs. Catholic. A bit over 1 billion each. Not an easy study because a search for either often brings results of both as a unit. Also, neither is probably over the 1 billion mark in true believer numbers. The totals are inclusive of anybody making the claim. IE. They will include the 3 time rapist who claims to be a Baptist because his grandma took him to church as a youth and the Vodou practitioner who uses idols of the Catholic saints in ceremony.

Stating that Christians follow the edicts of the Pope is equal to stating that Catholics follow the edicts of the Southern Baptist Convention. There are some agreements but enough doctrinal differences to clearly identify a separation.

#10 scaramouche

scaramouche

    Junior Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 13 posts
  • Age: 56
  • Christian
  • Creationist
  • Puyallup, Washington

Posted 05 August 2007 - 09:36 PM

The Pope does not say that such a conflict does not exist, but rather it should not exist. No one can deny that it does not exist. And before you go any further you have to define what the heck you mean by the turn evolution. There is no conflict between creationism and micro evolution. We know that. What does the Pope mean by Evolution. He certainly does not indicate that human beings were not the direct creation of God. Don't read the headlines - read the details. People like Kenneth Miller would love to have us believe that the Pope is behind macro-evolution -- but it just is not true.

#11 lwj2op2

lwj2op2

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 292 posts
  • Location:Ridgecrest, California
  • Interests:God, Family, Country, friends.<br />Apologetics, though not well versed.<br />Health, running, bike riding, outdoors.<br />Divorced (by my wife) father of four-23s, 20d, 18s &amp; 13s.<br />Remarried 2 more kiddos 6d, 4s<br />River Boat Captain about 16 years on the Colorado.<br />Power Plant operator at a Geothermal site, just past 5 years.
  • Age: 43
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Ridgecrest, California

Posted 05 August 2007 - 10:36 PM

The Pope does not say that such a conflict does not exist, but rather it should not exist.  No one can deny that it does not exist.  And before you go any further you have to define what the heck you mean by the turn evolution.  There is no conflict between creationism and micro evolution.  We know that.  What does the Pope mean by Evolution.  He certainly does not indicate that human beings were not the direct creation of God.  Don't read the headlines - read the details.  People like Kenneth Miller would love to have us believe that the Pope is behind macro-evolution -- but it just is not true.

View Post


No argument there.

#12 trilobyte

trilobyte

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 508 posts
  • Age: 50
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Philly

Posted 06 August 2007 - 07:13 AM

Does this mean that Catholics should embrace evolutionism because the Pope might?

#13 Guest_kega_*

Guest_kega_*
  • Guests

Posted 06 August 2007 - 08:01 AM

Does this mean that Catholics should embrace evolutionism because the Pope might?

View Post


The Pope is the leader of the Christian Church as set up by Jesus Christ. so i thjink he would know a thing or two about spiritual matters

#14 Al650

Al650

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 153 posts
  • Age: 47
  • no affiliation
  • Creationist
  • Michigan

Posted 06 August 2007 - 08:32 AM

The Catholic Church keeps up with scientific matters and how they apply to man's view of the world and himself. The Pope recognizes the Theory of Evolution as a reality but does not think it (macro) can be scientifically proven. Also, even though the Church is in dialogue with the scientific community, it has always held that God cannot be separated from His creation, evolution or no evolution.

For me, the science behind evolution has been turned into a tool to remove God from creation and from everyday life.



May the name of Jesus Christ be praised,
Al

#15 trilobyte

trilobyte

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 508 posts
  • Age: 50
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Philly

Posted 06 August 2007 - 04:16 PM

The Pope is the leader of the Christian Church as set up by Jesus Christ.  so i thjink he would know a thing or two about spiritual matters

View Post



Is the Pope REALLY the leader of the "Christian Church" ??????

Sure he may know a thing or two about spiritual matters...but he is also missing a thing or two.

#16 Al650

Al650

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 153 posts
  • Age: 47
  • no affiliation
  • Creationist
  • Michigan

Posted 06 August 2007 - 04:39 PM

The Pope is the leader of the Catholic Church. There are many Christian denominations that do not recognize Papal authority.





God bless,
Al

#17 ikester7579

ikester7579

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 12500 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida
  • Interests:God, creation, etc...
  • Age: 48
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • I'm non-denominational

Posted 07 August 2007 - 02:10 AM

Christians may well believe that the Pope has been directly appointed by god to rule the church.  I'll take his commentary on scientific issues with a pinch of salt however.

View Post


Catholic church. I only see the Pope as a mere man. A man appointed to be over all Christian churches, directly by God, would be doing miracles and wonders like the apostles.

The other problem with this is that thet real God the worship is Mary. Hence the reason there is a Catholic church close to my home that is named.

Mary, Queen of heaven, Roman catholic church.

Inside they have a 9 foot tall statue of Mary they worship, pray to, hold mass to, and like a cult. Have the children hold candles in a round circle around that statue.

What is funny though. They had the statue in a room that had windows all around that faced a bunch of trees. Which made it hard to see from the road. The land got cleared out, and what they were doing was exposed to everyone who passed by because the windows had no curtains. After a month went by, and I guess the church got several phone calls about cult like practices going on with children. They removed the statue. But the name of the church remains the same. If anyone does not believe me, I can take a picture of it and post it. And if I can find out the location of the 9 foot Mary, I can take a picture of that too.

#18 Guest_kega_*

Guest_kega_*
  • Guests

Posted 07 August 2007 - 02:16 AM

Is the Pope REALLY the leader of the "Christian Church" ??????

Sure he may know a thing or two about spiritual matters...but he is also missing a thing or two.

View Post


of course he is!!!!!! he can trace his authority right back to Peter. even if some Christians dont reconise his authority (but they should) there are plenty of denominations that are still catholic.

the Catholic Church is very patient when it comes to waiting for brothers and sisters in Christ to come back to the flock.

#19 Guest_kega_*

Guest_kega_*
  • Guests

Posted 07 August 2007 - 02:20 AM

Catholic church. I only see the Pope as a mere man. A man appointed to be over all Christian churches, directly by God, would be doing miracles and wonders like the apostles.

The other problem with this is that thet real God the worship is Mary. Hence the reason there is a Catholic church close to my home that is named.

Mary, Queen of heaven, Roman catholic church.

Inside they have a 9 foot tall statue of Mary they worship, pray to, hold mass to, and like a cult. Have the children hold candles in a round circle around that statue.

What is funny though. They had the statue in a room that had windows all around that faced a bunch of trees. Which made it hard to see from the road. The land got cleared out, and what they were doing was exposed to everyone who passed by because the windows had no curtains. After a month went by, and I guess the church got several phone calls about cult like practices going on with children. They removed the statue. But the name of the church remains the same. If anyone does not believe me, I can take a picture of it and post it. And if I can find out the location of the 9 foot Mary, I can take a picture of that too.

View Post


Catholics dont worship Mary!!!!!!! who on earth told you that?

The Pope has been chosen by god to lead the church. God isnt going to give him the power to raise the dead and heal the sick just because you expect him to ikester

#20 ikester7579

ikester7579

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 12500 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida
  • Interests:God, creation, etc...
  • Age: 48
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • I'm non-denominational

Posted 07 August 2007 - 03:10 AM

Catholics dont worship Mary!!!!!!!  who on earth told you that?

The Pope has been chosen by god to lead the church.  God isnt going to give him the power to raise the dead and heal the sick just because you expect him to ikester

View Post


An ex-catholic Jesuit priest. And it is confirmed by the church close to my house. Do you want me to take pictures and post them?

Also, David Jeremiah told a story in a sermon where he went to a country (don't remember which one) that was mainly Catholic. He ask the locals what was the main attraction there because he wanted to do some sight seeing while he was there, and they told him about the catholic church that had priceless works of art. Some were in gold.

He brought his still camera, and video camera to take pics. They said nothing to him about this, so he figured it was okay. So he took pictures of each room they entered. They got to one room and wondered why some people looked up and gasp at what they saw, so he looked up as well and did the same thing. On the ceiling was the cross. Instead of Christ, there was Mary.

He told this story because of what happened when he made copies and started passing them out. A local Catholic church got several people complaining, and several dropped out as well. He said it was because the truth about this was being revealed. Not only was the Vatican made aware of this, but the church that the pics came from were made aware of it as well.

David soon received a call from the church that the pics were taken from, and the highest priest authority in that country is who that called him. It was then made clear to him that he was to gather up all copies made of pics and videos. And they were sending a special group of priest to his church to collect them and to investigate what he did. They said they considered that stealing something from them that did not belong to him. He told them that he was not hiding anything, and that his cameras were in perfect view of their security. Because they also tried to accuse him of sneaking the cameras in.

Anyway, he did as he was told. And the priest came and took all his videos and pictures.

Now, if you still don't think this is true about Mary. Just let me know and I'll take some pictures for you of the Catholic church near my house that is named after Mary, the Queen of heaven.

I'm not doing this to make anyone mad. But if this is true, what would you do?

In fact, here are some links for you to look at.


http://www.qofhchurc...host.php?page=0

http://www.queenofheaven.org/

Here's one with a nine foot statue: http://www.maryqueen.org/

If you do a search here: http://images.google...09&start=0&sa=N

You will not only find pics of Mary on the cross. But pics of her hands with holes that are bleeding. Or just holes. And the sacred heart with stripes, as if she took the stripes of Christ.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users