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#1 rbarclay

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Posted 15 September 2007 - 10:11 AM

I am new to the debate forum so I am sorry that this is out of sequence since it took a little time to formulate my response. First I would like to respond to:

Quote from pwnagepanda posted Sept, 10, 2007:

I am curious, but how do YEC’s explain the microwave background? It seems to me to be one of the most compelling pieces of evidence for the big bang theory.

The microwave background or cosmic microwave background radiation (CMB) is not necessarily evidence of the Big Bang Theory it can and has been used as evidence for other Theories as well even creationism. Also remember not all evolutionists believe in the Big Bang. The thought behind that CMB being a residue of the Big Bang would be that as the explosion passed through space it would leave small clumps of gas that would eventually form stars, planets, etc. The clumps would leave pockets of temperature change (hot to cold - the temperature is measured in wavelengths) and the pockets would be seen like hills and valleys. At first there were no pockets detected then the COBE team found very small hills and valleys in fact the temperature difference was only one hundred thousandth of a degree. This was finally detected by the COBE team.

The CMB has a number of problems and explanations that do not make it very compelling evidence. Even the COBE team leader George Smoot had doubts about the findings but backers of the Big Bang ran with it. First there is the Sunyaev-Zel’dovich theory developed by two Soviet astrophysicists. The theory claims that as the CMB passes through intergalactic gas clouds with the radiation colliding with the electrons in the clouds making a small change in the temperature. This change could very well be the change the COBE team detected.

Then there is the explanation of the CMB by Sir Author Eddington. Eddington suggests that CMB is simply radiation that comes from the heat sources that reside in the universe. His calculations gave a value of 2.8 K and this is what the known CMB recorded to date. It should be noted that CMB should be at 50K by R.A. Alpher, R. Herman, and G. Gamow just a few years before CMB was discovered.

Tom Van Flandern believes the pockets of CMB stem from materials between galaxies or intergalactic medium absorbing radiation of distant galaxies not from the Big Bang. He also states that the temperature distance from 50 K to 2.8 K eliminates CMB as compelling evidence of the Big Bang. Tim Folger claims the CMB is to uniform or to smooth the temperature should be more seriously effected than it displays. There should be more of a disruption with such an immense explosion.

Lastly these are evolutionists that are having problems with the CMB because they do not agree with the Big Bang Theory. As much as they believe CMB supports the Big Bang evolutionists have had to admit it is not as compelling evidence as they would like. Sir Fred Holye and others area little more forthright about it they believe that CMB has nothing to do with the Big Bang at all.

My next post will be on the flaws of the theory of common ancestry between humans and chimps.

Bob Barclay

#2 pwnagepanda

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Posted 15 September 2007 - 11:03 AM

I am new to the debate forum so I am sorry that this is out of sequence since it took a little time to formulate my response. First I would like to respond to:

Quote from pwnagepanda posted Sept, 10, 2007:

I am curious, but how do YEC’s explain the microwave background? It seems to me to be one of the most compelling pieces of evidence for the big bang theory.

The microwave background or cosmic microwave background radiation (CMB) is not necessarily evidence of the Big Bang Theory it can and has been used as evidence for other Theories as well even creationism.  Also remember not all evolutionists believe in the Big Bang.  The thought behind that CMB being a residue of the Big Bang would be that as the explosion passed through space it would leave small clumps of gas that would eventually form stars, planets, etc. The clumps would leave pockets of temperature change (hot to cold - the temperature is measured in wavelengths) and the pockets would be seen like hills and valleys.  At first there were no pockets detected then the COBE team found very small hills and valleys in fact the temperature difference was only one hundred thousandth of a degree. This was finally detected by the COBE team.

The CMB has a number of problems and explanations that do not make it very compelling evidence.  Even the COBE team leader George Smoot had doubts about the findings but backers of the Big Bang ran with it.  First there is the Sunyaev-Zel’dovich theory developed by two Soviet astrophysicists.  The theory claims that as the CMB passes through intergalactic gas clouds with the radiation colliding with the electrons in the clouds making a small change in the temperature. This change could very well be the change the COBE team detected.

Then there is the explanation of the CMB by Sir Author Eddington.  Eddington suggests that CMB is simply radiation that comes from the heat sources that reside in the universe. His calculations gave a value of 2.8 K and this is what the known CMB recorded to date.  It should be noted that CMB should be at 50K by R.A. Alpher, R. Herman, and G. Gamow just a few years before CMB was discovered.

Tom Van Flandern believes the pockets of CMB stem from materials between galaxies or intergalactic medium absorbing radiation of distant galaxies not from the Big Bang.  He also states that the temperature distance from 50 K to 2.8 K eliminates CMB as compelling evidence of the Big Bang.  Tim Folger claims the CMB is to uniform or to smooth the temperature should be more seriously effected than it displays. There should be more of a disruption with such an immense explosion.

Lastly these are evolutionists that are having problems with the CMB because they do not agree with the Big Bang Theory. As much as they believe CMB supports the Big Bang evolutionists have had to admit it is not as compelling evidence as they would like.  Sir Fred Holye and others area little more forthright about it they believe that CMB has nothing to do with the Big Bang at all.

My next post will be on the flaws of the theory of common ancestry between humans and chimps.

Bob Barclay

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you should put thiss in the main thread, not a separate one.

#3 4jacks

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 01:06 PM

Posted Image

Sorry I forgot to circle the "Quick Reply" Button which brings up the Fast Reply Box.

Also Quotes look like this


Have fun, happy debating!

#4 rbarclay

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 09:26 AM

Posted Image

Sorry I forgot to circle the "Quick Reply" Button which brings up the Fast Reply Box.

Also Quotes look like this


Have fun, happy debating!

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4jacks,

Thank you for your posts. I am new to computers I have only used them since I returned to college in 1998. I am learning new things about them every day and I appreciate your helpful hints.

I look forward to the debates they are fun and informative.

Bob Barclay

#5 4jacks

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 12:35 PM

No Problem man.




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