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#1 The Debatinator

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 08:40 PM

I know that the forum guidelines are clearly stated and examples have been made of what violations are. However, I think every evolutionist should at least have one warning to when they are using total strawmen. I'm talking to a couple right now who have the inability of looking at what they call evidence, objectively. One of the two guys even made a parody thread of what I had said comparing the ToE to gravity.

"Could some please provide me with proof or one piece of evidence that suggests that all objects that are denser than air must fall to earth. Just because every object we have seen does this, DOES NOT mean that it is scientific to come up with wild light year jumps about gravity applying to everything.

All of the evidence that people have shown me fits into both of the scientific models we have. The certain objects you see falling to earth have done so because the flying spaghetti monster willed it. There are certain objects in the world that do not fall toward the earth. Why do you all presume that newtonism is correct when there is no evidence to support it that can't be explained by both theories?"

That's just how blind he is. It's sad really. I also think Wiccan Child may have had some potential had someone made a public no-no about it before completely banishing him. I know you've put up with a lot of junk but I find it kind of sad that people are banished very quickly here.

#2 Fred Williams

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 05:04 PM

I understand your concern. A couple points:

1) As mentioned in our rules, we look for “repeated cases of red-herrings, quibbling over terms (equivocation), strawmen, false allegations, and other devices contrary to honest debate”. Wiccan quickly and easily fell into this category.

2) Members here are often not privy of what leads to someone’s banishment, such as a deleted post or PM. Based on a now deleted post Wiccan Child made to Al650, he was clearly here to waste our time. Please see the following list which WC was a poster child for:

http://www.evolution..._alert_page.htm

There are plenty of forums out there for people to choose from if they want a free-for-all. We try to offer something different, where we emphasize quality over quantity and strive to keep time-wasters out.

Fred

#3 The Debatinator

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Posted 18 February 2008 - 06:15 PM

That gamer guy I definitely understand, but I'm not sure about Origen.

#4 Fred Williams

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 09:26 AM

That gamer guy I definitely understand, but I'm not sure about Origen.

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Again, you are not privy to what causes a person to be banned. After a Mod deleted a huge post of his promoting Ifology and asked him to shorten it up and make it concise, Origen replied by calling him a "stupid denominational supremacist!" That's a pretty much no-brainer "4th and long" situtation.

Fred

#5 The Debatinator

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 07:47 PM

I know, excuse my curious nature. ;)

#6 ikester7579

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 08:22 PM

You may think we are to strick. Running this forum for a few years plus having run others like this, and dealing with evolutonist trolls quite often, the one thing we have learned is that once a person crosses the line and refuses to do what is asked of them. From that point forward they will balk at everything and just be a real pain in the neck.

And if we allow what they have done to be shown to others, then it attracts those who like to do the same exact thing. Those who do not wish to follow rules will always test the waters to see what they can get away with.

We are admins and mods. And not baby sitters. If people are to immature to follow rules of those who run the forum, to bad.

One more thing. This forum is not free. The host has to be paid. If we want tech support on forum program because we are having problems, we have to pay for it. And because Fred does not accept donations to help run these things. Fred reserves the right to run the forum how he sees fit to run it.

We do allow members to have a say as you are having here. If Fred were accepting donations to help pay for all this, then I imagine we would have a voting committee to help make rules and decisions. But we don't. To accept donations Fred would have to make this a 501c3 ministry. Which takes more time and more money. And we would have to report everything to the IRS. Who here likes to deal with the IRS?

Most of us do not have that time available.

I have over 5 years experience running forums and debating. I can tell you that this is the most civil forum you will find. That is because we do not put up with the people who come in here who think they can call other people names, attack them personally, refuse to abide by rules, harrass, lie, claim to be something they are not (athiest presenting themselves as Christian), etc...

If a member decides they no longer want to debate in a civil manner, Christian or not, we will boot them. And yes we have booted some Christians here. And we have booted about 50 atheists who presented themselves as something they are not. I respect someone more if they don't come in here lying up front about what they believe. I will boot them quickly once it's figured out that they are. Because it is like the bible says: Allowing wolves among sheep is to allow someone to stay that presents themselves falsly to others. This is because they lied when they joined, and they continue to lie to cover it up the whole time they are here.

We consider this a type of ministry. Allowing those who do not believe to have a voice as big as the message that is being presented is like allowing that same person to stand up in the middle of a church and yell at the preacher on every subject they disagree with. Would you want a person to stand up in the middle of a sermon and start an arguement with the pastor?

That is what it is like when the hatred of those who disagree drowns out what this ministry is supposed to be doing. Disagreement is not the problem. It is "how" it is done.

Example:
1) Creation is a lie, and your skydaddy (God) is a liar, and you are a lying fundie.
2) I disagree with creation, and I don't think God exists.

Now which is the civil way to disagree, and which is done through hatred? One we would allow, the other we would not. Both get their points accross, and one is done soley out of hate. Responses out of hate provoke others to respond in kind.

Like the man who does this in a church, now imagine the whole congregation gets involved. You basically have a war of words, which is what the hate mongers want. That is what we try avoid here. God's message cannot come across where this hate is spewed. This is why the hate mongers want to do this. They know they can gain control of a forum and it's message if they can spew their hate.

#7 The Debatinator

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 08:33 PM

Understood.




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