What Do You Think The Main Message Is?
Posted 13 May 2008 - 10:30 PM
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What the message is. Is how the Christian faith has become a faith of compromise. Where we always choose what we want to do over what God wants us to do.
The preacher pleading for his life is a representation of how the compromise extends all the way to the leaders who are supposed to be our representation of Christ.
The atheist is a representation of how sick non-believers are of phony faith. He said: Christ died for you, are you willing to die for him? The non-believer was crying out that he wanted to see true faith. Something to stand for, something to want. The preacher could not give it to him because he did not know what it was to have that kind of faith even though he is supposed to.
The gun being empty of bullets was a representation of the whole actual event being a test of faith. And that the atheist was not really looking to hurt anyone. He wanted to see with his own eyes what true faith with no compromise was all about. The preacher did not demonstrate this to him, and is the reason he said: You are not the one.
In other words, the preacher is not the one that would bring the atheist to Christ.
People often wonder why it is so hard to bring people to Christ today. The body of Christ has become full of compromise, so when an outsider looks in, he sees no difference on the inside as he sees on the outside. And because so many do this, the testimony of Christ's message unto the world is basically being ruined.
Posted 15 May 2008 - 12:30 AM
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When people see leaders of the faith doing stuff like this, they want nothing to do with it. I guess what? I don't blame them. This guy can do what he does and has deceived so many in believing 1/2 of the bible. Because we stand by and do nothing. And we wonder why we cannot reach those who need Christ. It is because they don't see Christ when they see us. They see people like Osteen instead.
Posted 15 May 2008 - 03:52 AM
It's actually a risky strategy on Satan's part. I've heard of at least a couple of cases where he lost his servants that way.
In the context of the first story, it's just another way for an atheist to gin up a false excuse that he himself knows is false. There's no scripture promising all who call themselves "christians" will demonstrate faith to his satisfaction. It's just another phony argument he'd use to stall - not like he couldn't obtain one by some other means.
Anyone genuinely seeking the truth will find God. Satan & all his forces cannot prevent this, including his infiltrators & counterfeits. These people should be opposed, and I mean seriously; but they've been around a long time and have very little to show, if you consider the time & efforts they've put into their enterprise. I'm confident not a single one of God's elect will be missing when the time comes.
Posted 15 May 2008 - 09:02 PM
How does it look to the outsider when Osteen claims to be Christian, does what he does, and has the largest church in the world?
He becomes by default, the representation of what the body of Christ is whether we like it or not.
Now why does he get to maintain that position? Everyone else on the tv level will not stand up to his false teachings. Very few will stand behind the pulpit and do so.
Osteen teaches a form of universalism which is a belief that everyone will go to heaven. Which is why he will never preach a sermon that warns people about hell. Might as well preach that hell does not exist. Which also denies why Christ died.
Posted 18 May 2008 - 10:52 PM
I don't say we should not act & oppose this. Rather I say we shouldn't overestimate it & blow it out of proportion. If it were so all-fired effective, how is it that we exist? I conclude from history that it's not been very effective. I conclude from scripture that it's potential is limited. I conclude from the ease with which one can identify most hypocrites that few, if any genuine seekers will be delayed. Those who are delayed, but continue to seek, can see that scripture predicted both these and the other scoffers in detail. God is glorified in the end.
I think the greater danger from infiltrators can be seen in the recent past. They've contributed to a lot of compromise in the last 200 - 300 years, and too many genuine believers have allowed themselves to be sidetracked or led into unsound ways altogether.
Just look at all the bad ideas which afflicted the early churches! God's ways are mysterious, but He always makes progress. Our job is to fight a good fight, and not become discouraged.
Simply living as we should provides a powerful testimony to those who are looking for truth. See http://brianheadwelc...?showtopic=3136 for an example. This man observed real Christians and asked "What's the deal with them?" No number of hypocrites can stand in the way of this.
Posted 19 May 2008 - 07:33 AM
Looking at things in a round-about way, "preachers" like Osteen do have a role to play in the coming end times. Albeit an evil one.
If you think about it, throughout the Bible God shows that it is usually a mere remnant of the faithful who survive or escape judgment. Noah's flood comes immediately to mind of course. Then the three who escaped Sodom and Gomorrah. Then, Rahab out of Jerico. There are more subtle remants as well. Only one of 10 lepers that Jesus cured came back to thank and worship him. The sheep and goats judgment, which takes place at the end of the tribulation to separate those still living who helped the tribulation saints and those who persecuted them ... you can bet there are fewer of the former and a lot more of the latter. A remnant.
How does this apply to Osteen? I believe God is telling us in the biblical examples of remnants that only a relative few will be snatched up by Jesus in the rapture. That leaves behind all of those who openly profess against Christ and God. But, there will also be many, many who sit in church pews who are deceived by false teachings and who never even knew they must make a profession for Christ.
That's why deceivers like Osteen are particularly dangerous today and must be taken very seriously. This could very likely be the last generation before the Harpazo, so Osteen will be personally responsible for sending possibly millions to their doom.
I sure wouldn't want to be standing next to him during a lightning storm.
Posted 19 May 2008 - 08:29 AM
"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
"So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
"So then, you will know them by their fruits.
"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
Joel Osteen's ministry is scary to me. But God has a plan, and if Joel is not in it, then we shouldn't worry. God will take care of it.
Posted 19 May 2008 - 04:31 PM
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