Jump to content


Photo

Christian Music. What Do You Think?


  • Please log in to reply
56 replies to this topic

#1 ikester7579

ikester7579

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 12500 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida
  • Interests:God, creation, etc...
  • Age: 48
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • I'm non-denominational

Posted 07 September 2008 - 11:42 AM

There are certain types of music I like and don't like. But I have learned that if God's blessing is in it, I don't condemn it. So I thought I would leave a couple of examples and get opinions.

[godtube]d55b5fc2968c42b1a58f[/godtube]

I have seen the testimony of this group above (third day) and how it came together. As the lead singer will tell you, it did not work until they allowed God to guide them. And when the correct members of the band finally came together (what God planned), the band took off beyond their wildest dreams of success.

[godtube]a141c46696b5e28f57ba[/godtube]

The name of the song on the second video (because it's hard to understand the lyrics) is "praising Him tonight" by Kutless. And even though some may disagree with the music, I believe this reaches an audience that would not be reachable any other way.

Note: the views expressed here are my personal views may not be the views of the forum owner.

Added:
[godtube]aeed046fed206a492e65[/godtube]

#2 scott

scott

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1749 posts
  • Age: 21
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • mississippi

Posted 07 September 2008 - 09:16 PM

Thats almost exacty how I wouldve of put it, if they are doing the will of God and being blessed for doing so, then why punish them for it.

I dont usually listen to Christian music, or much music at all, but if I notice that God is the main reason they are singing, then I will be happy for them. I'm just not much of a praise song type of person, to me it doesnt really get a solid message across.

#3 ikester7579

ikester7579

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 12500 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida
  • Interests:God, creation, etc...
  • Age: 48
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • I'm non-denominational

Posted 08 September 2008 - 05:29 AM

The way I have learned to gauge something that I am not sure of is to look for the signs of God's approval. Why?

Because we are not perfect, God has to leave us some "leeway" for our imperfections. Question is, how much "leeway" is that? Can anyone here actually say and then back that up with scripture?

jn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

What the verse above means is that Father God controls the drawing power to His Son. So in order for "any" ministry (music or what ever) to have God's approval, it first most have the sign of being able to draw people to Christ. Why? Because this shows that God is in that ministry.

Because:
1) The Devil is not going to draw people to Christ for salvation.
2) God is not going to be involved in a deception.

Some might think: Well they have to follow certain rules in order for certain things to happen. Not so as Christ points out to John in the book of Luke.

Luke 9:49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.

50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

For he that is not against us is for us. Forbid him not. So when we judge people by the standard we "think" God would want, are we not really judging them by our own standard because we disagree? Because if we truly were to allow God to be our guide in our decisions on what we see. Then we would look for the signs of approval instead of making up our own rules.

#4 Dave

Dave

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 600 posts
  • Age: 60
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Central California

Posted 14 September 2008 - 08:37 AM

Hello Isaac,

May I assume that by Christian music you mean rock music with an alleged Christian theme, aka "Contemporary Christian Music?"

There's an excellent treatment of the topic in two books authored by Dan Lucarini. They are "Why I Left the Contemporary Christian Music Movement: Confessions of a Former Worship Leader," and "Can We Rock the Gospel?: Rock Music's Impact on Worship and Evangelism."

Our family has read, and reread, both books several times, and we have even spent time on the phone receiving counsel from Mr. Lucarini. That's because music plays an important part in our family's lives, and is also a major reason why we do not have any particular church we call home.

Before a discussion of CCM can take place it has to be taken out of the realm of the personal and emotional. Dan Lucarini's books are a real eye-opener that should lead one to realize the true biblical perspective of this relatively new worship style.

Dave

#5 ikester7579

ikester7579

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 12500 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida
  • Interests:God, creation, etc...
  • Age: 48
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • I'm non-denominational

Posted 14 September 2008 - 11:44 AM

Hello Isaac,

May I assume that by Christian music you mean rock music with an alleged Christian theme, aka "Contemporary Christian Music?"

There's an excellent treatment of the topic in two books authored by Dan Lucarini. They are "Why I Left the Contemporary Christian Music Movement: Confessions of a Former Worship Leader," and "Can We Rock the Gospel?: Rock Music's Impact on Worship and Evangelism."

Our family has read, and reread, both books several times, and we have even spent time on the phone receiving counsel from Mr. Lucarini. That's because music plays an important part in our family's lives, and is also a major reason why we do not have any particular church we call home.

Before a discussion of CCM can take place it has to be taken out of the realm of the personal and emotional. Dan Lucarini's books are a real eye-opener that should lead one to realize the true biblical perspective of this relatively new worship style.

Dave

View Post


Anything can be made to be good or evil. It is whether you strive to stay within the boundaries of what separates both. I can drive a Harley, a lot of Harley bikers are associated with secular sinful stuff. But if I do not drive the Harley to associate with that crowd, but to use it as a tool to reach that same crowd. Am I committing evil? If what I do is not in the will of God, He will block the drawing power to His Son. Which means that my works will not bear fruit.

Dan Lucarini may have been called out of this music because God knew he was not strong enough to resist the temptation that so many in the music world fall into because there is more money in one section of music than another. Like Leann Rhymes and Spears, Whitney Houston etc... Who started out singing in the church and was lured away by fame and money.. God is not going to tempt us beyond what we can bear.

I'm not say leaving the music is wrong for you or Dan Lucarini. But the situation for each individual is different concerning their ability to work in certain fields with the gifts they are given. And the true only way that I have found that shows God is in something whether I agree or not. Is if that ministry can draw people to the Son of God. Because without looking for the signs of approval (the drawing power), it becomes more of our opinion than scriptural. For can God's drawing power to His Son be in a ministry full of deception and evil? That would make God deceptive and evil as well. And because Satan will never draw anyone to Christ because he loses through salvation. This shows that this power can only be reserved for ministries that fall under God's approval.

For can you provide a verse that says there is another drawing power to the Son that does not come from the Father? One that possibly comes from evil?

Example: I have the recorded testimony of the band Third Day. I suggest you look at it before you judge them. It's called: Third Day Chronology volume two (2001-2006). You don't go through the trials and tribulations they went through to suddenly find God's will for their life and success, and them learning that if they do not follow certain promptings from God. then they suffer set backs.

The salvation message is: Come as you are. Not came as we want you to be or get rejected. So when such ministries draw people to Christ as they are, then it is up to us to feed them the milk and meat of the word so that the word cleans them up on the inside. Then the change on the outside begins. Forced change can lead to rejection of salvation.

Do you actually think that people will be condemned on judgement day because they played contemporary music to christian lyrics? And can you prove without a shadow of a doubt that it is a sin, even though it draws people to Christ?

Here is something to ponder. If people are being drawn to Christ through this sinful music, does that not also make the salvation they receive just as sinful? Sin does not draw a person to Christ. That is why Christ had to live a sinless life in order to be able to give us this free gift.

Basically, you cannot have it both ways. And what I mean by this is that you cannot have music ministries drawing people to Christ, and then on the other side say it's wrong. You would first have to prove a drawing power that comes from evil. I have yet to find a verse that says this.

Question: Not trying to disrespect you when I ask this. Just trying to get a point across. But do you think that the drawing power to Christ can work through a ministry of sin to give salvation?

#6 Dave

Dave

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 600 posts
  • Age: 60
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Central California

Posted 14 September 2008 - 01:49 PM

But do you think that the drawing power to Christ can work through a ministry of sin to give salvation?

View Post


There is no yes or no answer to that question without first clarifying some issues.

For example, we would probably disagree on the actuality of the "drawing power to Christ" that comes from the emotions elicited by a particular CCM event. Even Billy Graham has admitted that he believes 95% of those who "walked the aisle" during his crusades probably did not make honest, sincere professions that bore the fruit of actual repentence, confession and acceptance of Christ. In other words, they were probably not really saved. (1John)

Also, there are elements of rock music that truly go against biblical principles and do not honor the Lord. No matter the allegedly Christian window dressing, these elements still exist in CCM.

A written testimony is easy to write up. However, the actual testimony of CCM rock stars' lives almost invariably exhibits a different kind of fruit. That's to say nothing about the downright Satanic origins of rock music and the founders of that musical genre.

Again, Dan Lucarini lays it all out in his two books in shocking, shocking details (many of which we had to gloss over in our family read-a-louds when our children were present).

Isaac, virtually every argument you could make in favor of rock music in church is covered and answered in Dan's books, complete with personal testimonies, others' testimonies and scriptural reference. If you don't think you'll get around to reading either of his books I can answer your specific questions if you pose them one at a time and are patient about me getting back with the answer.

Dave

#7 ikester7579

ikester7579

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 12500 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida
  • Interests:God, creation, etc...
  • Age: 48
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • I'm non-denominational

Posted 15 September 2008 - 06:28 AM

There is no yes or no answer to that question without first clarifying some issues.

For example, we would probably disagree on the actuality of the "drawing power to Christ" that comes from the emotions elicited by a particular CCM event. Even Billy Graham has admitted that he believes 95% of those who "walked the aisle" during his crusades probably did not make honest, sincere professions that bore the fruit of actual repentence, confession and acceptance of Christ. In other words, they were probably not really saved. (1John)


jn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

No man means no man. And salvation is a commitment issue. If someone walks up because of the prompting of the Lord. But by the time he gets up there changes his mind. That does not mean that God was not in it. "Choice" is the sign of a true religion. Forced choice through fear of a lie or guilt is a cult.

Also, there are elements of rock music that truly go against biblical principles and do not honor the Lord. No matter the allegedly Christian window dressing, these elements still exist in CCM.


Anything that hinges on the edge of the highest temptations is always going to have those who fall. This is why God tests us before He allows us to do something like this.

A written testimony is easy to write up. However, the actual testimony of CCM rock stars' lives almost invariably exhibits a different kind of fruit. That's to say nothing about the downright Satanic origins of rock music and the founders of that musical genre.


If I were to use your logic of stereotyping, I could condemn almost every element of the Christian faith by using examples of how good was made to look evil, or accomplish evil. Or examples of people who fell from God and never came back. Pastors who committed adultery, stole, did drugs, became drunks, etc...


Again, Dan Lucarini lays it all out in his two books in shocking, shocking details (many of which we had to gloss over in our family read-a-louds when our children were present).

Isaac, virtually every argument you could make in favor of rock music in church is covered and answered in Dan's books, complete with personal testimonies, others' testimonies and scriptural reference. If you don't think you'll get around to reading either of his books I can answer your specific questions if you pose them one at a time and are patient about me getting back with the answer.

Dave

View Post


With all due respect, I too could do the same thing if I stereotype all music that I disagree with. I used to do that.

If the excitement of the music can draw people forward. Why do not secular rock groups have an alter call for Satan after each concert? With the excitement their concerts have upon people, almost 100% should be coming forward for that.

#8 Dave

Dave

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 600 posts
  • Age: 60
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Central California

Posted 15 September 2008 - 12:59 PM

Isaac,

I think we are talking apples and orangutans here. You are focusing on the rather nebulous factor of whether someone can truly come to Christ through a rock music encounter, thereby saying it is good; and I am focusing on the fact that rock music is a practice that is not pleasing to the Lord and should not be indulged in by a truly born-again Christian.

I believe that a baby, or newly-born, Christian will enjoy his rock music ... for a season ... but should hopefully begin to shed those worldly pursuits as his walk with the Lord progresses. The same could be said of many worldly pursuits -- drinking, gambling, believing in evolution, reading questionable literature, or viewing questionable movies, for example.

As we draw nearer to Christ we should attain to be more like Him. Can you imagine Christ "rocking" to the Gospel? Or using any music of evil origins to draw believers to Him? I don't think so.

Why do not secular rock groups have an alter call for Satan after each concert? With the excitement their concerts have upon people, almost 100% should be coming forward for that.


Oh, Isaac. That is the tragedy. Rock concerts do draw people by the multitudes to the Prince of this World. There is an alter call. It is called a Mosh Pit. And sadly, yes, there is an almost 100% coming forward for that -- not only at the concerts themselves but among teenagers worldwide wearing their earbuds mindlessly bobbing their heads to that sensual backbeat.

Rock music has left behind a legacy of broken lives, broken families and a degraded culture. It is now in the church, with a growing legacy of split congregations, displaced long-time members, sensual services ... in other words, not too much different than the secular world.

To try to get this conversation off the general and onto the specific, if you'll pose one question, I'll try to answer it and flesh it out for you.

Dave

#9 scott

scott

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1749 posts
  • Age: 21
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • mississippi

Posted 15 September 2008 - 04:07 PM

Dave,

The beat of rock music is not evil, it is the words that enspire a satanic envolvement that do, you must remember that you can in no way compare those christian rock bands lyrics to Marylin Mansons lyrics, you just cant.

Saying the beat of rock music is evil, is exactly like saying the cam lope of a high performance car is evil. Am I sinning for wearing protective armor that makes me look like some type of warrior while Im riding my dirtbike? I'd hope not.

Now it would be a sin if you used a car to terrorize and run over innocent people, but it would NOT be the car that was sinning, it would be the person. Same with music, its not the music, but the person singing the words. The deeds, the words, the actual committing the crime is the sin.

Also, since my car is jet black, and has cobra emblems all over it, does that make it evil simply because the snake somehow represents satan??? So, by using the line of logic that rock music is evil, then the loud exhaust sounds comming from my car on take off should also be totally evil? You know, I personally like the sound of jets, high perfomance cars and motorcycles. So it truly is hard for me to believe that the beat of rock music is evil.

Remember enjoying life and Gods gifts are not evil. Drugs, adultury, murder, alchohol, and breaking any of Gods laws are NOT his gifts, but sin.

It is Gods will that we use our talents that God gives us instead of burying them like the slothful servant. So yes, I will use my talent to play the guitar, build highperformance vehicles, find fossils, and many other abilities toward the will of God. The key to all of this and success is to put God first, not these earthly things, that is the way I live.

#10 Dave

Dave

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 600 posts
  • Age: 60
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Central California

Posted 15 September 2008 - 05:37 PM

... you must remember that you can in no way compare those christian rock bands lyrics to Marylin Mansons lyrics, you just cant.


Absolutely right. But not because of what you think. Consider this. Our local grocery store plays CCM over the PA system. The owner, a Christian, believes he is "putting one over" on his customers -- enfusing them with "Christian" music without them realizing it. But, don't you see the irony in this? I've been in the store many times and heard customers singing the popular, rock music words along with the music. Sure, the CCM band had adapted allegedly Christian words to a popular rock tune. But ... and here's the key ... the customers weren't hearing the new lyrics! They were hearing in their heads the old, rock lyrics that went with the tune.

Furthermore, they are reliving sensual, ungodly pleasures from their past (or maybe present for all I know) that were (and still are) part and parcel of rock music culture. This dear Christian brother who owns the grocery store is actually leading his customers to have thoughts that are not of God, but of this world, and even worse.

God tells us not to put something before a brother that would cause him to stumble. That is exactly what rock music does.

So it truly is hard for me to believe that the beat of rock music is evil.


Yes, and before you became a Christian you no doubt failed to understand that a lot of what you don't to do now was evil. Your personal opinions are not what counts, it's the adherence to biblical principles that are the issue.

The beat of rock music is not evil, ...


Are you aware of studies done on animals and humans that chronicle the physiological effects that different styles of music have on them? In every single case, rock music is found to have the most negative effect ... even to the degree of affecting lifespan, sanity, etc.

So, I ask you, if something is not good and pleasing to the Lord, what is it? Is God a relativist? A little sin is OK? Of course not.

Dave

#11 ikester7579

ikester7579

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 12500 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida
  • Interests:God, creation, etc...
  • Age: 48
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • I'm non-denominational

Posted 15 September 2008 - 10:15 PM

Rock music has left behind a legacy of broken lives, broken families and a degraded culture. It is now in the church, with a growing legacy of split congregations, displaced long-time members, sensual services ... in other words, not too much different than the secular world.

View Post


The music, or the message of the lyrics? If the music is what corrupts, then why even add lyrics to it?

Now I don't believe that a Christian group should take an existing rock music song and change the lyrics. That would bring old sin memories back. But to make a song from scratch is different. There is no sin to relate to.

Can you prove that music alone can corrupt?

#12 Dave

Dave

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 600 posts
  • Age: 60
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Central California

Posted 16 September 2008 - 08:20 AM

Can you prove that music alone can corrupt?

View Post


Certain styles of music can, yes.

Allow me to quote some material here.

A similar experiment has been done with mice. David Merrell, a high school student in Suffolk, Virginia won first prize in the state science fair for his science project to determine the effect of music on lab mice. He created a maze that took mice about 10 minutes to negotiate. Then Merrell played classical music to one group of mice and hard rock music to another for 10 hours a day. After three weeks, the mice exposed to the classical music made it though the maze in 90 seconds. The rock music group took 30 minutes. Merrell added, “I had to cut my science project short because all the hard rock mice killed each other. None of the classical music mice did that.” Not only did the rock mice take longer, something in the music caused them to kill each other! While the classical mice benefited from the music, the others wound up dead.

How do you take this information and apply it to humans? Will people who listen to hard rock or heavy metal music end up killing each other? The answer may surprise you. One of the greatest causes of sensor neural deafness in the youth of our nation is their addiction to the violent and harsh sounds of hard rock and heavy metal music. The damage to the sense of hearing is great, yet the hard rock music may cause even greater harm to the mind.

The pulsating jungle beat and syncopated rhythms of rock music cause a phenomenon known as nerve jamming, which is similar to hypnosis. A person under the influence of the sound and beat of rock music loses conscious control of himself and is open to manipulation by the rock musicians with their messages of drugs, immorality, and violence: the listener’s mind is no longer in control of his body. Prolonged exposure to rock music affects a person’s subconscious mind. Listening to rock music is, therefore, morally and spiritually harmful as well as physically and mentally damaging. (BJU publications)


I'd say the bolded parts speak of corruption of the spirit, wouldn't you?

And because "Christian" rock musicians emulate the musical style, dress, mannerisms, graphic presentation, etc., of rock and roll there is virtually no difference. Only the words are different, but there are problems with even that ... for another topic.

Gotta get to work. More later.

Dave

#13 scott

scott

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1749 posts
  • Age: 21
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • mississippi

Posted 16 September 2008 - 03:02 PM

Well, Rock music the beat in and of itself, is NOT evil, this is a fact. Why? Because an old oak tree sitting out in the middle of a field all by itself isnt anything, until it is used for good or bad. Then again, its not evil, the people who hanged other people on the tree, were committing the sin.

This whole arguement is like this old saying: Spoons made Rosie O' donald FAT. Therefore, spoons are evil, you can hurt people with spoons, they should be banned, or saying guns kill people, people obviously dont kill people.

Also, personally, I believe that ties and dress suits are evil, simply because evil politicians wear them, so I wont be caught dead wearing anything. Ties can be used to kill people too. So in essence everything in the entire universe is simply evil, even a matchbox car, or a lego set.

Remember, and listen carefully, all things created under the sun were made for God, until these certain things are used or created to go AGAINST God are they a sin.

#14 Dave

Dave

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 600 posts
  • Age: 60
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Central California

Posted 16 September 2008 - 05:28 PM

Well, Rock music the beat in and of itself, is NOT evil, this is a fact.

View Post


On the face of it, you are right about the oak tree, the gun, the spoon. However, it reminds me of that question on the IQ test: Which one of these four items does not belong with the others?

Rock music is simply not in the same category as animate or inanimate objects created either by God or by man. Rock music is only an abstraction until put into play by a musician, or heard by a listener. Rock music is a reflection of the musician's character, personality, morality and spirituality. It simply does not exist without the guiding purpose behind it.

So, knowing that, what is the history and legacy of rock music? How about rebellion? How about drugs? How about sensuality? How about immodesty? How about losing inhibitions? How about rejecting parents authority? I can go on. Are any of these things good and pleasing to the Lord? I think not.

CCM brings into the church all of this baggage from the rock music culture. It is inescapable, unavoidable, undeniable. Turn off the sound and watch the video of any church's worship session during a heavy rock CCM musical rendition. Turn off the sound and watch the audience during a rock concert. Not much difference, huh?

You can't separate the effects of CCM on the body, the soul and spirit from the legacy of rock music no matter how much you dress it up with Christian-sounding band names, re-written lyrics, or the location where it is played. It is still rock music and all that it entails.

Scott, answer this. Tell me one good thing that has happened in our society and culture over the last 50 years or so that can be attributed to the introduction of rock music. I mean "good" in the biblical, God-pleasing sense.

Dave

#15 scott

scott

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1749 posts
  • Age: 21
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • mississippi

Posted 16 September 2008 - 08:33 PM

On the face of it, you are right about the oak tree, the gun, the spoon. However, it reminds me of that question on the IQ test: Which one of these four items does not belong with the others?

Rock music is simply not in the same category as animate or inanimate objects created either by God or by man. Rock music is only an abstraction until put into play by a musician, or heard by a listener. Rock music is a reflection of the musician's character, personality, morality and spirituality. It simply does not exist without the guiding purpose behind it.

So, knowing that, what is the history and legacy of rock music? How about rebellion? How about drugs? How about sensuality? How about immodesty? How about losing inhibitions? How about rejecting parents authority? I can go on. Are any of these things good and pleasing to the Lord? I think not.

CCM brings into the church all of this baggage from the rock music culture. It is inescapable, unavoidable, undeniable. Turn off the sound and watch the video of any church's worship session during a heavy rock CCM musical rendition. Turn off the sound and watch the audience during a rock concert. Not much difference, huh?

You can't separate the effects of CCM on the body, the soul and spirit from the legacy of rock music no matter how much you dress it up with Christian-sounding band names, re-written lyrics, or the location where it is played. It is still rock music and all that it entails.

Scott, answer this. Tell me one good thing that has happened in our society and culture over the last 50 years or so that can be attributed to the introduction of rock music. I mean "good" in the biblical, God-pleasing sense.

Dave

View Post


I am an answer to your question, if it wasnt for rock music, I might not have gotten back to the Lord. Many people, that I have witnessed at a contemporary christian rock concert have given their lives to the Lord. Though I rarely listen to music besides riding in my car, I have been to many youth camps, and seen this personally.

We must also remember that the electric guitar was only created about 60 years ago, so those type of sounds have been used for many different reasons throughout the generations.

1950s rock = rebellion from parents(not so much being as the parents werent use to the new beat, so naturally like anyone who merely assumes but doesnt study makes it out as evil), hot rods( created 10 to 15 years before rock), a new style of music besides country/ gospel music.

1960s rock = rebellion from common sense, using drugs major drugs, ( not really rebelling against parents in a music sense, since most of the parents listened to 50s rock)
1970s rock = basically the same, but the coming on of the Satanic worshiping era.
1980s rock = the zenith of Satanic/ rock music, slowly to die out by the rap/ cocaine movement.
1990s rock = the beginning of main stream contemporary christian music, even though throughout every decade the eletric guitar was used in the church environment.
2000s rock= a plethora of contemporary christian music including rap.

Now rap, is todays problem, rock was the 1950s problem, though not really a problem in as much as rap has influenced the world 10 times more than rock EVER did. Rap, is the main cause of the degrading of the late 1980s- 2000s , this is a fact.

Because of Rap aka ©rap, todays youth is more dumbed down than ever in the recorded history of man kind. Teens today have zero clue about performance cars, they think candy pee green paint, and 33 inch chrome spinna rims are IT. They pay zero attention to God, or common sense. You can tell this by the backwards caps and underwear showing. Most think that a 4 cylinder honda civic with a bottle of nitrous is 100times better than any corvette. The youth of America are now commiting Adultery more than any other decade.

I'll tell you if contemporary christian music keeps Americans teens from listening to the likes of Lilwayne, SouljaBoy, Coldplay, and My Chemical Romance, then this country as a whole would benefit from this. Because in todays music industry Lil wayne and his ugly giant chrome rims are god, and youll be hard pressed to tell these kids any differently. Rap alone can also be contributed to very premature pregnancies in the country. Commiting adultery is the most awesome thing for todays youth today, even in the past, but not in numerous numbers as it is today.

So yes contemporary Christian music is a good thing. So yes I'll turn up my hard hitting rock music when I pull next to some poser in a candy pee green caprice (not so ) classic, and I'll lay the hammer down, drown out his music with the sound of Gods music, and rubber burning, all drowning out the sin, and all that is wrong with this country who because of Liberalism, atheism, and rap has destroyed what America once stood for. The poser will hear the Deffening sound of Truth.

#16 ikester7579

ikester7579

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 12500 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida
  • Interests:God, creation, etc...
  • Age: 48
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • I'm non-denominational

Posted 17 September 2008 - 10:01 AM

On this one Dave, I think we will have to agree to disagree. If you took my last post (which is deleted) as a means of showing arrogance, I apologize.

I have no problem with being proven wrong. In fact I invite it because upon someone doing so I no longer have to waste my time on that issue believing it to be one meaning when it's another. But this can happen only with God's words, not one man's interpretation of them (i.e. established doctrine or a written book). I adhere to no particular doctrine on this issue. I am non-denominational. I allow the Word of God to guide me, and the action of God to guide me.

#17 Dave

Dave

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 600 posts
  • Age: 60
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Central California

Posted 17 September 2008 - 12:58 PM

I am an answer to your question, if it wasnt for rock music, I might not have gotten back to the Lord.

View Post


A person's testimony about their coming to the Lord is a very personal thing, and I hope and pray I can be delicate about what I say in reply.

What I'm thinking is that there are lots of things that people attribute to them coming to the Lord. I've known of people coming to Christ through personal tragedy, death in the family, etc. But, I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to make those things a regular part of every Sunday service in order to enhance the alter call.

Romans 8:28 is always there to assure us that even when bad things happen in our lives God can work it for the good for those who love Him and are called according to His purpose. Should we seek out those bad things and make them a regular part of our lives in order to test God's commitment to Romans 8:28?

If you really, really think about it might you think that you were already ready to come to the Lord and something else could have nudged you to do it? Maybe you came to the Lord despite listening to rock music? Or maybe your conscience, while listening to rock music, was telling you that you needed something better, more wholesome and more Godly in your life, so you reached out to God for it?

It's just not possible that God would use something that goes against every principle He has laid out in the Bible to bring someone to Him in a lasting (1John) kind of way. I'm not questioning your faith and commitment, I'm just wondering if you are misattributing the reason or cause.

Dave

#18 scott

scott

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1749 posts
  • Age: 21
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • mississippi

Posted 17 September 2008 - 08:11 PM

A person's testimony about their coming to the Lord is a very personal thing, and I hope and pray I can be delicate about what I say in reply.

What I'm thinking is that there are lots of things that people attribute to them coming to the Lord. I've known of people coming to Christ through personal tragedy, death in the family, etc. But, I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to make those things a regular part of every Sunday service in order to enhance the alter call.

Romans 8:28 is always there to assure us that even when bad things happen in our lives God can work it for the good for those who love Him and are called according to His purpose. Should we seek out those bad things and make them a regular part of our lives in order to test God's commitment to Romans 8:28?

If you really, really think about it might you think that you were already ready to come to the Lord and something else could have nudged you to do it? Maybe you came to the Lord despite listening to rock music? Or maybe your conscience, while listening to rock music, was telling you that you needed something better, more wholesome and more Godly in your life, so you reached out to God for it?

It's just not possible that God would use something that goes against every principle He has laid out in the Bible to bring someone to Him in a lasting (1John) kind of way. I'm not questioning your faith and commitment, I'm just wondering if you are misattributing the reason or cause.

Dave

View Post


Your exactly right that God would never use something that totally goes against His will.
Thats why its perfectly acceptable for God to use rock music. Rock music comes in many different forms, good and bad. If you don't like the way an eletric guitar sounds then, thats perfectly fine. Many people dont like the way a turbocharged 6 cylinder supra sounds, and thats perfectly fine, ( mainly because they have a bias for the classical V8 sound.)

Rock music didnt make me turn my life over to Christ, I was already a Christian at the time, but it made me get back on track with the Lord. I was falling away from God, into pop music, into the part of this world that is truly corrupt, which is when man becomes lazy, doesnt know how to change his own oil, expects everything to be given to him. It was time that I grew up and realized that everything isnt all huggs and kisses. A time where I put away my country music, which was a part of main stream pop, almost totally corrupted. A time where it dawned on me, that the (majority) of gospel music, regular and rock, really gave no true inspiration or message at all.

I can tell you from experience, the music I listen to grabs at my soul, my inner workings. It helps me see the better, and offcourse I can live without rock music. But with a world filled with lazyness and blandness, it would just make it that more boring. I truly believe that the fear of rock music stems from the fear of actually having to do something, actually having to listen to something that would touch your soul.

Many christians get the mistaken view that God wants everything to be just like Leave it to Beaver, or the Waltons. So in doing so, these christians lead themselves into an unfortunate road to disaster. The perfectly dressed family, the perfect job, the perfect pansy commuter car, the perfect scooter, the perfect tree house in the back yard. These things are frivolous, and need to be delt with accordingly, because it gives a picture that these people are completely ignorant of the situation at hand.

Me I was born and raised in a Christian family, my parents dont approve of rap, pop, or any type of music that makes adultery sound fun, killing fun, all things satanic fun. I believe you get the picture, and I too completely agree with my parents.

I believe the strange belief that electric guitars are evil, stems back to the majority of the human population believing that internal combustion engines are magic, therefore they have no reason to search out a reason, or a cause, because they can have a mechanic do everything for them. Being naieve of a situation is a very bad thing to do. This is also the main reason people believe in evolution, because they are naieve, and refuse to search out truth, because they think every thing around them is perfect, already set in place, no need to see if what they are doing or not doing is wrong, or at least questionable.

Personally, if eletric guitars are evil, then I should just stop playing mine, or turn the speaker off, and play the Leave it to Beaver theme song. Either that or turn the classical music on when Im at the drag strip, which would be hilarious, I'll have to do that next time I go.

#19 Dave

Dave

    Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 600 posts
  • Age: 60
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • Central California

Posted 18 September 2008 - 05:30 PM

Scott,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you appear to be saying that there is nothing wrong with rock music. So, I'm wondering if you would mind listing all the benefits that our society and culture have experienced since the introduction of rock music some 50 years ago.

I'm thinking in terms of how rock music exemplifies the fruit of the Holy Spirit. After all, we're Christians. We're supposed to have put away the "old man" and be taking on our new character to be Christ-like.

Here is the verse that lists alll of them:

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control." (Galatians 5:22)

So, if you don't mind, I'll take the list that you produce and examine each item in light of the fruit of the Holy Spirit that God expects us to exhibit.

By the way, there is no single musical note that is evil, no single musical instrument that is evil. For purposes of this conversation let's stick to the topic, the style of music exemplified by what is commonly called rock.

Dave

#20 scott

scott

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1749 posts
  • Age: 21
  • Christian
  • Young Earth Creationist
  • mississippi

Posted 18 September 2008 - 09:08 PM

Scott,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you appear to be saying that there is nothing wrong with rock music. So, I'm wondering if you would mind listing all the benefits that our society and culture have experienced since the introduction of rock music some 50 years ago.

I'm thinking in terms of how rock music exemplifies the fruit of the Holy Spirit. After all, we're Christians. We're supposed to have put away the "old man" and be taking on our new character to be Christ-like.

Here is the verse that lists alll of them:

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control." (Galatians 5:22)

So, if you don't mind, I'll take the list that you produce and examine each item in light of the fruit of the Holy Spirit that God expects us to exhibit.

By the way, there is no single musical note that is evil, no single musical instrument that is evil. For purposes of this conversation let's stick to the topic, the style of music exemplified by what is commonly called rock.

Dave

View Post


Which style of rock music do you presume to speak of Dave? Satanic rock? Punk rock? Pop rock? Country rock? Christian rock? Ever since rock was created in the 1950's it has been played to conform to all types. The last 50 years was the technology boom of the century, before then electronic musical instruments barely existed. I could speak of many things good and bad that different types of rock has done to the world. The past 20 years of evil could be attributed almost soley to RAP. The days of Black Sabbath, Lynnard Skynnard, ACDC, and Def Leopard are all but gone.

I believe that if this was the year 1932, and I was talking to you outside on a porch, you might be attributing Jazz to all that is wrong with the youth of the day.

Many people attribute rock music to Satanism because of the heavy metal years of the late 1970s to mid 1980s.

The lyrics, and the beat of some types of rock music may inspire people to do bad things, but these people usually are the ones who make Natural Selection seem like a good thing, and these people would make Darwin proud.

Now on to the grand list of things:

1. People being saved by the message of Christian music.
2. Listening to your favorite song with a loved one.
3. Getting off work and praising God along with the beat and being overall joyful and thankful.
4. Listening to a powerful song that speaks of longsuffering and endurance, the struggle to keep on going after a tough situation.
5. A song which makes one want to stand up for truth and righteousness.
6. A song speaking of kindess, and gentleness to your enemies, even when they least deserve it.
7. A song of self control, to hold back on harming another, to think of God first and his ways.

Oh yes, there are rock songs for each of these, many. A great multitude. But you must realize that the majority of todays youth dont see God, or his ways, or powerful and emotional music. Todays youth are blinded by pop music, as they were in the past, over and over again this happens. They dont see blandness, or the dumb in things, mostly because they aspire to be liked, hugged, kissed and coddled with fuzzy teddie bears. Their emotions run high as they try and be noticed, to be a part of the in crowd, to just go with the flow, and to never have to think. Todays youth is so indoctrinzed with MTV that they get the idea that somehow a car colored like their favorite pokemon, with huge rims, and obama stickers plastered all over it is totally awesome. They also think that high pitched girly man voiced bands like Cold Play, Hawthorne Heights, and My Chemical Romance is totally awesome.

So to answer your question, no I absolutely do NOT think all forms of rock music is good, I dont appreciate what POP ROCK has done to the American culture as a whole. I dont appreciate what punk or Satanic rock has done to America. But I do appreciate the ones who actually were meaningful.

But in the end if you dont like the sound of rock music then that is perfectly ok. Because your going to listen to the type of music you like in the first place. And also, if you dont listen to rock what do you listen to? It has to be some form of music without the use of the electric guitar, what form would that be? Because we sometimes use electric guitars for our church services, the people who plays these guitars range from ages 48 to 63. Personally I dont know of any music besides acoustic bands and classical music that does not use an electric guitar. And yes if your music you listen to has an electric guitar in it, then yes its rock.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users