Me: I know not every osas believer has this attitude, but a lot of them do. I have met quite a few that constantly judge me and others to hell for not believing as they do. I don't believe that osas makes one hell bound, but taken to it's extreme as some will, it leaves me to question that it just might.
I haven't paid any real attention to the "OSAS" threads here (read a few posts and wasn't interested in arguing it) but I don't expect they contain this sort of language.
Okay, I must admit, I'm totally ignorant of this "osas" movement (or what ever it is). But I did see some pretty disturbing messages there... What's up with that?
Discernment isn't automatic, or cut 'n' dried. That some make mistakes and attempt invalid shortcuts shouldn't be too surprising. The "osas" implication permeates the gospel, and for some it's difficult to acknowledge that a genuine believer could miss it. Sounds like a sort of hypothetical or "what-if" piece of speculation. But the world's a big place; scripture isn't always clearly understood; and confusion would exist even without promotion.
People have come to believe salvation can be lost, and apparently there's a need to label those who disagree.
The thing we need to do is look at ourselves, and truly look at what we are saying.
What is salvation, and can we loose our salvation? Salvation is all about trusting in Jesus, and that He forgave us of all our sins. We must believe and continue to believe because that is how we are saved. Trusting and Believeing. Anyone can believe that Jesus exist, but not everyone trusts Jesus.
How can you have Salvation if you don't trust Jesus? If you don't trust Jesus then that automatically makes him your enemy right, or there is something you think Jesus is hiding like He is going to kick you eveytime your down, or make a mistake. Thats human reasoning. Jesus has the power to Forgive.
Lets take a closer look at the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, and what is the unforgivable sin? Do we really even know enough about the verse to make a sound die hard judgement on it??? Is anyone absolutely sure what that scripture means??? I know I don't know enough about it, but there have been times in my life when I think that I have committed it. So, if I'm here right now can you truly say to me that there is no hope for my soul, and that I am lost for an eternity???
You see when I die, I know for a fact that God cannot say that He never knew me, because I have faith and trust in Him. I have trusted in God for many years of my life, so how in a moment of torment and anger that I call God something that He isn't that I now cannot or ever can be saved???
This mindset makes God look human, and childish. Why? Because if God cannot forgive someone for calling Him a name, then how can He expect His very own children to forgive others either???
So does anyone have any further knowledge on this??? I would very much like some answers, or opinions. This subject hits the very core of our beleifs, the very foundation.
Scott, I in no way want to make this sound like a cop-out. Although, the questions you post here are really good ones, they (at their base) cannot be answered without going into great detail. Much scripture (the most important ingredient) logic and time would go into it, and it would easily become convoluted and prone to going off on tangents due to those intricacies.
The main suggestions I could make is to go back to any and all scriptures dealing with salvation, don’t pretend that you already have the answers, keep them in context of the overall message they are representative of. Then and only then can you have a firm foundation to build upon.
The questions you have to ask yourself in these studies are: 1- What is salvation? 2- Are there really instances in scripture where believers have fallen away from the faith, and slipped from this fleshy existence in that state? Does Jesus talk about the probability or actuality of this happening? Do the writers of the books of the Bible comment on the possibility of this happening?
I have found that I “personally” need to do these studies, and lean on that, more than on the opinions of others. Once I have a good idea of the Biblical foundations concerning this, the better equipped I am to discuss these things (in the depth you’re asking), in an open forum…. Also, don’t get me wrong, I am not condemning you for asking the question, I am only giving my opinion. So please, don’t take this post the wrong way…
I am not going to answer the salvation question right now, because I know you are going to get many different answers for it. And I would rather have the scriptural foundation at my finger tips (which I don’t have compiled right here and now) before I presented you with the options.
I will answer this question emphatically though… Trusting and believing comes from experience and evidence, because; “Faith comes from hearing, and hearing from the word of God” < Romans 10:17> …. And one must “Study to show yourself approved to God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth” <2 Timothy 2:15>….
I do agree, simply because I think I was simply leaning into my own understanding. The Bible is deffinetly a great place to start learning what the basic foundation of our Salvation is, and how it could be lost, because it is the Word of God.
I too believe I am going to have to study the Word of God a lot more on this one to make any kind of sound judgement. Anyways, I like to use the original King James Version.
I think the only problem with the concept of "Once Saved Always Saved" is the fact that it's rarely qualified with understanding. The last time I checked the only kind of life Jesus has on offer is the eternal variety but to understand what we are looking at with supposed backsliders, blasphemers and those that fit the real deal, some qualification is needed and some good old scripture inquiry.
Once the discussion about OSAS gets going, I'd like to point out something that all must consider every time they post.
In loss-of-salvation discussions it's important to distinguish what is being acted on: Is it the Spirit, the Soul or the Body? It makes a huge difference, especially when the scripture talks about death or dying, if God means our spirit, our soul, or our body. The three are vastly different in God's eyes.
I think every post on the subject should discern and qualify just which one of the three they believe applies to the scripture they are quoting.
I believe that in the OSAS/Non-OSAS debate most of the disagreement arises from not carefully discerning which of the three God is talking about.