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Let's All Be Honest...


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#1 Adam Nagy

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 09:35 PM

The most rock-ribbed fundamentalist Christians believe in Evolution and...

...the most committed atheists believe in the supernatural.

#2 ikester7579

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 10:13 PM

Evolution? Only the processes that are observable. Which menas 50% of it is unprovable and always will be because of the time factor involved. But I have no problem which adaptation and changes within a kind.

How about you Adam? You posted this let's hear your view?

#3 Adam Nagy

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 10:15 PM

I wanted to keep people guessing for a little while... :lol:

I have something up my sleeve but if I have to be out with it, I'll comply.

#4 the totton linnet

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 02:54 AM

I wanted to keep people guessing for a little while... :)

I have something up my sleeve but if I have to be out with it, I'll comply.

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*
I believe God in His wisdom has set within creation the ability to evolve and adapt, I wonder what's up your sleeve :lol:

#5 de_skudd

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 07:38 AM

The most rock-ribbed fundamentalist Christians believe in Evolution and...

...the most committed atheists believe in the supernatural.

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Posted Image

#6 Adam Nagy

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 07:51 AM

Posted Image

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:lol:

I have a couple of confessing Christians here. Ikester was, to my surprise, the first one in my confessional booth followed by Totton. You showed up as the comic relief. Now we just need a couple of atheists to think through what I said and respond...

#7 JudyV

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 03:04 PM

The most rock-ribbed fundamentalist Christians believe in Evolution and...


Aha, just as I've always suspected! :lol:

...the most committed atheists believe in the supernatural.

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Sure, we love to pretend and make up stories, it's fun! :D

#8 de_skudd

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 05:54 PM

Sure, we love to pretend and make up stories, it's fun! :D

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And the best one so far is evolution :lol:

#9 JudyV

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 06:45 PM

And the best one so far is evolution  :D

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Yeah, we'll just stick with our favorite old fairytale, thanks. No doubt we are all just intentionally deluding ourselves because we want to keep on doing drugs and partying and we can't wait to burn in hell forever. :lol:

#10 Adam Nagy

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 06:47 PM

Alright, I know I made a pretty ambiguous OP which just asks for a free-for-all, but let's not wreck this thread just yet.

#11 Adam Nagy

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 07:08 PM

Sure, we love to pretend and make up stories, it's fun! :lol:

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I'm not asking about stuff that's made up. I'm asking for Atheists to think through those 'unsolved mysteries' that are believed on the basis of thinking, concepts and theories that do defy current understandings of nature.

#12 JudyV

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 07:43 PM

I'm not asking about stuff that's made up. I'm asking for Atheists to think through those 'unsolved mysteries' that are believed on the basis of thinking, concepts and theories that do defy current understandings of nature.

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There are probably a lot more "unsolved mysteries" in the natural world than things we actually understand.

So?

Must we go straight from "the universe is mysterious" to "therefore there must be a personal god, and this god must be the person described in the Bible?"

I find that kind of thinking diminishes the awesomeness of the universe.

#13 jason78

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 08:43 PM

There are probably a lot more "unsolved mysteries" in the natural world than things we actually understand.

So?

Must we go straight from "the universe is mysterious" to "therefore there must be a personal god, and this god must be the person described in the Bible?"

I find that kind of thinking diminishes the awesomeness of the universe.

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I don't think that's what he's doing. I think that being a Christian necessitates believing in God first and then bending everything else known about the universe to reinforce that belief.

#14 Adam Nagy

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 10:11 PM

I don't think that's what he's doing.  I think that being a Christian necessitates believing in God first and then bending everything else known about the universe to reinforce that belief.

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Hi Jason,

I partially appreciate your response. Now can you take this reasoning over to the mirror and see if you can apply it to yourself by critically answering the charge?

Adam

#15 de_skudd

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 06:35 AM

I don't think that's what he's doing.  I think that being a Christian necessitates believing in God first and then bending everything else known about the universe to reinforce that belief.

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Untrue Jason, you are generalizing here. There are many scientists and philosophers (etc…) who came to Christ after giving in to the overwhelming evidence (think Francis Collins etc...) in His favor. And there are many of us set out to disprove the Bible, and then gave into the overwhelming evidence in His favor.

I agree with you that there are some who see God first, then see the universe from that standpoint. But there are many-many (many-many many-many many-many) atheists who do the same. And with the evolution indoctrination we are force-fed in the school system here in America, your theory is well documented in explaining why atheists are doing that self-same thing.

#16 JudyV

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 08:55 AM

I agree with you that there are some who see God first, then see the universe from that standpoint. But there are many-many (many-many many-many many-many) atheists who do the same.

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I'm not sure I understand what you meant by this. Do you mean many atheists start from a presuppositionalist position? If so, what is it that they (we) presuppose?

#17 falcone

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 09:31 AM

Now can you take this reasoning over to the mirror and see if you can apply it to yourself by critically answering the charge?

and

I agree with you that there are some who see God first, then see the universe from that standpoint


Okay, here's a non-exhastive list of 'types' of people. There are those who:
a. See God and fit nature in.
b. See evolution and fit nature in.
c. See nature and fit God in.
d. See nature and fit evolution in.

Personally, I didn't start believing in evolution first and then decide be an athiest.
My initial impression looking at the world and universe was that there is no god. The more I learn about evolutionary and biological science, cosmology, geology and so on, the more my athiesm seems to be confirmed.

#18 Adam Nagy

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 09:44 AM

Nice post, falcone. I appreciate your candor.

What would you say to the second half of the OP?

#19 falcone

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 10:02 AM

What would you say to the second half of the OP?

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Again, I couldn't presume to speak for all athiests, but I believe that what people perceive to be supernatural events can often be explained scientifically. If not, then the cause of the event is just unknown. No need to invoke anything supernatural.

If you could travel back in time a few hundred years and show people a cigarette lighter, they'd take it from you and use it to burn you as a witch. Of course, there's nothing supernatural about cigarette lighters.

#20 Adam Nagy

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 10:27 AM

If not, then the cause of the event is just unknown. No need to invoke anything supernatural.

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What possible events can you think of, that according to your beliefs, fits the description of these; events with unknown causes?

How many can you name specifically? Can I take it one step further? Not only name events, but current perceived conditions as well. Anything that you would feel tempted to label an illusion, of chemistry in motion, would fit into this category, starting with an animal like humans believing in God at all, would be a good one for this category.

If you could travel back in time a few hundred years and show people a cigarette lighter, they'd take it from you and use it to burn you as a witch. Of course, there's nothing supernatural about cigarette lighters.

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I avoid Chronological Snobbery at all cost. I find it intellectually stunting. :lol:




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