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What Can Stop Micro To Macro?


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#41 jason78

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 12:27 PM

That is a self defeating and self contradicting statement. How could something be so complex that it shows no design…. Unless, of course you’re suggesting a “Higher” designer?

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Maybe because, DNA isn't designed?

#42 jason78

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 12:40 PM

If evolution is true how did it develop an understanding that it is best to make the respiratory system voluntary and involuntary?

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Evolution isn't a person that can understand things. It doesn't want. It doesn't design design things. It doesn't worry about things.

It's a natural process.

#43 jason78

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 12:40 PM

Replying to What Can Stop Micro To Macro?

Well, personally I just wanted to show how so much of the machine that we physically are have all the underpinnings of a complex purposed and ordered systems that are integrated together without our effort or knowledge.

To believe that macro-evolution is the means by which this comes about is a pipe dream and a blind faith.

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That isn't a mechanism that micro to macro evolution. There are variations in generations of living organisms. You have different DNA from your parents and you still function. Your children will have different DNA from you and they will still be viable.

Variations in the the code don't produce a program that doesn't work here. It can be shown in such things as ring species that those variations can continue to a point where organisms have varied so much that they can no longer interbreed and you get macro evolution.

#44 Adam Nagy

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 01:06 PM

That isn't a mechanism that micro to macro evolution.  There are variations in generations of living organisms.  You have different DNA from your parents and you still function.  Your children will have different DNA from you and they will still be viable.

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Please, don't stop there. Please regale us with how this is magical proof that Life is not designed and how bacteria-like ancestors gain information and new organs and how these changes over time learn how to interact with these never before seen structures that self assembled, and self programmed.

How many poorly wired creatures got a foot ache when they were thirsty before one evolved the signal that allowed thirst to be directly wired to the desire for a drink?

#45 Adam Nagy

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 01:10 PM

Evolution isn't a person that can understand things.  It doesn't want.  It doesn't design design things.  It doesn't worry about things.

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Yet here we are. :rolleyes:

Pay no attention to the design, it's just an illusion of time plus chance...

#46 de_skudd

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 02:27 PM

Maybe because, DNA isn't designed?

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But the probability is much higher that it is designed because it's too complex not to be.... Therefore, the statement "Maybe because, DNA isn't designed" doesn't make any sense logically ...

#47 de_skudd

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 02:36 PM

Evolution isn't a person that can understand things.  It doesn't want.  It doesn't design design things.  It doesn't worry about things.

It's a natural process.

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No one speaks of evolution as a person (except for inferences by evolutionists) . But evolutionists speak of evolution as an entity that can perform functions such as “evolution caused this” or “evolution did that”… So if evolution can do all these things that evolutionists claim it does; what then, is evolution?

Evolutionists speak of it (evolution) as if it performs on a metaphysical level. And yet all the time, pretending as if there were no metaphysical realm for it to work in…. So, which way do you want it, because you can’t have it both ways….

And the statement “It’s a natural process” is not an explanation at all.. It’s not even a logical statement! So, in order to make such a statement, you have to have a logical basis to draw it from…

#48 de_skudd

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 02:38 PM

Yet here we are.  :rolleyes:

Pay no attention to the design, it's just an illusion of time plus chance...

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It would also behoove you not to pay any attention to the evolutionist behind the curtain. If you do, your blind faith in evolution will disappear. Then what (or who) will you turn to?

#49 jason78

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 02:39 PM

Please, don't stop there. Please regale us with how this is magical proof that Life is not designed and how bacteria-like ancestors gain information and new organs and how these changes over time learn how to interact with these never before seen structures that self assembled, and self programmed.

How many poorly wired creatures got a foot ache when they were thirsty before one evolved the signal that allowed thirst to be directly wired to the desire for a drink?

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Since we're talking about poorly wired creatures with foot ache, have you ever looked into phantom limb syndrome? Where the brain is convinced that a limb still exists (even though it doesn't) and still feels pain there?

Since you think that human beings are designed, can you show me how I could design one? Can you show a human being designed and made without reproduction? How could you improve on the design?

#50 jason78

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 02:41 PM

It would also behoove you not to pay any attention to the evolutionist behind the curtain. If you do, your blind faith in evolution will disappear. Then what (or who) will you turn to?

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There is no reply to that that wont get me kicked off this board :lol: Well done de_skudd :o Well done :rolleyes:

#51 de_skudd

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 02:45 PM

There is no reply to that that wont get me kicked off this board :lol: Well done de_skudd :o Well done :rolleyes:

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Unless, of course, you were to reply with a cogent, logical and reasonable response that is. And, it’s not of my doing, but your own…. So, therefore, I can take no credit!

#52 deadlock

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 02:50 PM

I've seen programs crash, and a bug in computer code won't always cause a crash.  A bug is unexpected program behaviour.  Such behaviour may cause a program to crash, but not always.

DNA is special because any mutation to any of the amino acids in the chain will either insert, delete, or change the amino acid to one of the other four amino acids.  The same isn't true of computer code.

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That´s not true.A mutation in a computer program can insert, delete or change a byte in the code.

#53 deadlock

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 02:54 PM

That isn't a mechanism that micro to macro evolution.  There are variations in generations of living organisms.  You have different DNA from your parents and you still function.  Your children will have different DNA from you and they will still be viable.

Variations in the the code don't produce a program that doesn't work here.  It can be shown in such things as ring species that those variations can continue to a point where organisms have varied so much that they can no longer interbreed and you get macro evolution.

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Please, all the variantions are pre-programmed variations, not random variations.Windows and Linux are not random variations of operating systems.

#54 jason78

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 03:02 PM

That´s not true.A mutation in a computer program can insert, delete or change a byte in the code.

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I agree Deadlock. It wont always make that byte a valid instruction though. A mutation to DNA will always produce DNA made of adenine, thymine, guanine, or cytosine, that can be copied or executed.

#55 deadlock

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 03:03 PM

I agree Deadlock.  It wont always make that byte a valid instruction though.  A mutation to DNA will always produce DNA made of  adenine, thymine, guanine, or cytosine, that can be copied or executed.

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Oh ! harmful mutations dont exist anymore.

#56 Adam Nagy

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 03:49 PM

Can you show a human being designed and made without reproduction?

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I've always wondered. How does the absolutely mystifying process of reproduction make design a sudden and necessary illusion?

#57 jason78

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 04:03 PM

Oh ! harmful mutations dont exist anymore.

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I didn't say that. I said that a mutation would always produce code that could be copied or turned into proteins. I was pointing out where the DNA = Computer Code analogy fails. There are changes that can be made to computer code that produce non functioning instructions. DNA being a chemical is extremely restricted in which amino acids it can use due to chemistry.

#58 jason78

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 04:05 PM

I've always wondered. How does the absolutely mystifying process of reproduction make design a sudden and necessary illusion?

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Because maybe if we knew how to design humans, we could design better ones. We could design humans without colour blindness or cystic fibrosis.

#59 de_skudd

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 04:29 PM

Because maybe if we knew how to design humans, we could design better ones.  We could design humans without colour blindness or cystic fibrosis.

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How could you hope design a better human when simple logic is outside the grasp… There was a time when no color blindness or cystic fibrosis existed. But that would go back to the original design, not the corrupted design.


The bigger question is; what does that have to do with the fallacy of macro evolution, and the fact that micro-evolution doesn’t lead to it?

#60 jason78

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 05:03 PM

How could you hope design a better human when simple logic is outside the grasp… There was a time when no color blindness or cystic fibrosis existed. But that would go back to the original design, not the corrupted design.

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Maybe with a better understanding of the mechanics of biology we will be able to find cures for those and more genetic conditions.

How could you hope design a better
The bigger question is; what does that have to do with the fallacy of macro evolution, and the fact that micro-evolution doesn’t lead to it?

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Absolutely none. That was a digression after Adam_777 was anthropomorphising evolution as an entity that wanted things.

We should get back to the topic though. What does stop small gradual changes from becoming larger and larger changes?




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