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Lake Titicaca


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#1 Crispus

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 08:28 AM

Lake Titicaca is the highest navigable lake on earth at more than 12,000 feet above sea level. It is located in Peru and Bolivia covering about 3,200 square miles and the northern tip is about 1,000 miles south of the equator. It is about 120 miles long and, at its widest point, 50 miles across. The average depth is between 460 and 600 feet, the greatest recorded depth is 920 feet and salinity levels range from 5.2 to 5.5 parts per 1,000 (1)

In 2000, divers found a temple at the bottom of Lake Titicaca after following a submerged road. More than 200 dives were made to depths of as much as 100 feet. The temple is believed to have been built 1,000 to 1,500 years ago but, if that's the case, then what are they doing at the bottom of Titicaca? One possible explanation is an earthquake. But, would an earthquake have been able to move a temple 200 meters long and 50 meters wide, a terrace for crops and an 800 meter long containing wall from the shores of Lake Titicaca to a depth of 60 feet without destroying them completely? Furthermore, divers followed a submerged road to the discovery indicating the temple and wall were originally located by that road (2).

Lake Titicaca is actually made up of two smaller sub-basins so another explanation is that they were originally not connected and the area where the temple and containing wall were found was dry until about 1,000 to 1,500 years ago. If the lake was formed at the end of the last ice age as many geologists believe that raises some questions:

If it was the result of a glacier or flooding at the end of the last ice age what effect would this have had on the entire earth since the glacier would have reached 1,000 miles south of the equator?

How was it able to reach a height of approximately two miles before it deposited massive amounts of water?

How was a slow moving glacier able to cross the Andes mountains south of Lake Titicaca which exceed 6,000 feet in height?

If the lake was much closer to sea level about 13,000 years ago does this mean the rapid uplift of mountains is possible?

Geoglyphs found near Lake Titicaca are believed to be very old and many are built into the bedrock under flood sediments: Author David Flynn noted "The geoglyphs seem to be physical evidence that supports the Middle and South American myths of world deluge and giants" (3).


1. http://www.crystalin...ketiticaca.html

2. http://news.bbc.co.u...icas/892616.stm

3. http://officialdiscl....com/giants.htm

#2 de_skudd

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 09:32 AM

Lake Titicaca is the highest navigable lake on earth at more than 12,000 feet above sea level. It is located in Peru and Bolivia covering about 3,200 square miles and the northern tip is about 1,000 miles south of the equator. It is about 120 miles long and, at its widest point, 50 miles across. The average depth is between 460 and 600 feet, the greatest recorded depth is 920 feet and salinity levels range from 5.2 to 5.5 parts per 1,000 (1)

In 2000, divers found a temple at the bottom of Lake Titicaca after following a submerged road. More than 200 dives were made to depths of as much as 100 feet. The temple is believed to have been built 1,000 to 1,500 years ago but, if that's the case, then what are they doing at the bottom of Titicaca? One possible explanation is an earthquake. But, would an earthquake have been able to move a temple 200 meters long and 50 meters wide, a terrace for crops and an 800 meter long containing wall from the shores of Lake Titicaca to a depth of 60 feet without destroying them completely? Furthermore, divers followed a submerged road to the discovery indicating the temple and wall were originally located by that road (2).

Lake Titicaca is actually made up of two smaller sub-basins so another explanation is that they were originally not connected and the area where the temple and containing wall were found was dry until about 1,000 to 1,500 years ago. If the lake was formed at the end of the last ice age as many geologists believe that raises some questions:

If it was the result of a glacier or flooding at the end of the last ice age what effect would this have had on the entire earth since the glacier would have reached 1,000 miles south of the equator?

How was it able to reach a height of approximately two miles before it deposited massive amounts of water?

How was a slow moving glacier able to cross the Andes mountains south of Lake Titicaca which exceed 6,000 feet in height?

If the lake was much closer to sea level about 13,000 years ago does this mean the rapid uplift of mountains is possible?

Geoglyphs found near Lake Titicaca are believed to be very old and many are built into the bedrock under flood sediments: Author David Flynn noted "The geoglyphs seem to be physical evidence that supports the Middle and South American myths of world deluge and giants" (3).


1. http://www.crystalin...ketiticaca.html

2. http://news.bbc.co.u...icas/892616.stm

3. http://officialdiscl....com/giants.htm

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Excellent post Crispus! I'll have to look into the links in more dtail later! ;)

#3 Robert Byers

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 09:20 PM

In no way is this area related to before the flood. It simply is from some overflow of water by greater amounts of water of some break.
These people are post flood asians and arrived no sooner then about 1500 b.c.

#4 Crispus

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 07:37 AM

Excellent post Crispus! I'll have to look into the links in more dtail later!  :)

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Thank de_skudd but I made some errors. I had read somewhere that Titicaca is believed to be formed by an advancing glacier and probably assumed incorrectly it was believed the glacier was from the Antarctic. But, if it was formed by melting glaciers from nearby mountains where's the evidence? The Lake Missoula flood has left many visible changes in the landscape.

http://www.pbs.org/w...od/scab-nf.html

If a glacial dam burst and formed, or at least filled Lake Titicaca, there would many signs of such a flood. A glacier doesn't explain the salinity levels in Lake Titicaca or in Lake Poopo.

Also, I probably got 13,000 years from the end of the Pleistocene epoch and haven't found when evolutionary geologists believe Titicaca was formed.

From the page about the geoglyphs:

"The historian Arthur Posnansky studied the area for over 50 years and observed that sediment had been deposited over the site to the depth of six feet. Within this overburden, produced by a massive flood of water sometime around the Pleistocene age (13,000 years ago) fossilized human skulls were unearthed together with sea shells and remnants of tropical plants."
http://officialdiscl....com/giants.htm

#5 jason777

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 04:32 PM

Great stuff Crispus.Reef aquariums is a hobby of mine and i know about a species of pajama cardinalfish that got trapped in a rising volcano.Over time rain water has dilluted the saltwater and now we have a freshwater species of cardinalfish.

#6 CTD

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 05:20 PM

That is a whale of a mystery.

#7 jamesf

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 07:47 PM

Thank de_skudd but I made some errors. I had read somewhere that Titicaca is believed to be formed by an advancing glacier and probably assumed incorrectly it was believed the glacier was from the Antarctic. But, if it was formed by melting glaciers from nearby mountains where's the evidence? The Lake Missoula flood has left many visible changes in the landscape.

http://www.pbs.org/w...od/scab-nf.html

If a glacial dam burst and formed, or at least filled Lake Titicaca, there would many signs of such a flood. A glacier doesn't explain the salinity levels in Lake Titicaca or in Lake Poopo.

Also, I probably got 13,000 years from the end of the Pleistocene epoch and haven't found when evolutionary geologists believe Titicaca was formed.

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Hi Crispus,
The temple in Lake Titicaca really is quite cool. It shows that the water there was once much lower. Here is a link to our current geology estimates of the lake - and I quote some of that story below as well.
http://news.stanford...ticaca-131.html

Generally, the salinity of a lake goes up when the lake has no major outlet and evaporation concentrates the salt leaching our of the surrounding mountains. The Dead Sea and the Great Salt Lake are examples. However, the South American Andes has some of the most magnificant dry salt lakes like the huge Salar de Uyuni in Bolivia. That lake contains an estimated 10 billion tons of salt.
http://en.wikipedia..../Salar_de_Uyuni
Posted Image

http://news.stanford...ticaca-131.html

Quite similar salt flats are found buried in sedimentary layers all over the world. Two thousand feet below most of New York, Ohio and Michigan are the vast remnants of an ancient salt lake (100 feet thick in places) and this is the source of the salt that used to melt the snow all through winter in the northeast. There is another vast salt lake 650 feet under Kansas with an estimated 13 trillion tons of salt. They dig out 500,000 tons annually.

http://www.lasr.net/...D=KS0207024a003

And the megaflood in the scablands of Washington also has some interesting geology. Most of flood moved through the vast volcanic fields of upstate Washington. These flood basalts represents the volcanic material of a number of major eruptions leaving over 175,000 cubic kilometers of basalt. That is equivalent of a Mount St. Helens eruption (1 cubic kilometer) ever year for 175,000 years. The Lake Missoula flood is small relative to the size of the volcanic basalts that the flood past through but it was certainly moving a lot faster.

http://volcano.orego...merica/crb.html

Those beautiful pictures of the Scablands you provided in the link show the effects of the fast moving water on the basalts in the area. It also shows the map of where the water flowed when the dams broke. The basalts also leave the evidence of the glaciers that provided the water for the flood.

http://www.pbs.org/w...od/scab-nf.html

Ok, here is the Lake Titicaca geological history (the best estimate from modern geology). From
http://news.stanford...ticaca-131.html

"The Altiplano is like a giant cup, and Titicaca is the deepest point in the vast plateau, so most of the precipitation in the Altiplano drains into the lake," says Stanford geologist Robert B. Dunbar, one of the authors of the Science study.

Because very little water drains out of Titicaca, the lake serves as a reliable archive of rainfall patterns over many centuries -- not just on the Altiplano, but in a large portion of tropical South America, according to Dunbar and his co-authors.

"Titicaca is the only large and deep freshwater lake in South America, and in deeper portions of the lake, sediment has accumulated continuously for at least the past 25,000 years," they add.

The authors point out that earlier studies of Titicaca relied on coring samples from the lake bottom taken at depths of 150 feet or less. To obtain an older and more complete climate record, a team of geologists led by Science co-author Paul A. Baker of Duke University collected three new samples at 270 feet, 450 feet and 690 feet below the surface.

Baker, Dunbar and their colleagues were able to reconstruct a history of precipitation in the Altiplano by determining how water levels in Lake Titicaca changed during the last 25,000 years. The researchers used a variety of techniques to analyze the salinity, chemistry and microfossil content of the ancient lakebed.

The most direct method involved counting fossilized diatoms -- microscopic single-celled algae often found in lakes. Some diatom species live near the surface, while others inhabit the deep. By comparing the abundance of deep- versus shallow-water fossils in each core sample, researchers were able to determine whether the lake level was high or low in a particular season.

Dramatic changes

After analyzing all three core samples, the scientists concluded that the lake -- and therefore the entire Altiplano -- has undergone a series of dramatic changes since the Ice Age was at its peak between 26,000 and 15,000 years ago.

"Lake Titicaca was a deep, fresh and continuously overflowing lake during the last glacial stage," according to the Science study, "signifying that the Altiplano of Bolivia and Peru and much of the Amazon basin were wetter than today."

Then, about 15,000 years ago, the Altiplano underwent a significant change. A dry era was launched, which continued for the next 2,000 years, causing Lake Titicaca to drop significantly.

Between 13,000 and 11,500 years ago, Titicaca began overflowing once again. This wet period was followed by 1,500 years of relative dryness, followed by another 2,500 years of heavy precipitation as the lake again rose to overflow levels.

Then, about 8,500 years ago, the lake level fell sharply as the Altiplano again became dry. But heavy precipitation would return for another 1,000 years, only to be followed by an extremely dry period between 6,000 and 5,000 years ago, during which Titicaca fell some 250 feet below its present-day level -- its lowest level in 25,000 years.

Titicaca finally began rising again 4,500 years ago. Since then, the southern portion of the lake has overflowed its banks numerous times.


Hope that helps,
James




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