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#1 Dude

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 09:22 PM

I'm pleased to be here.

#2 Preachbill

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 10:44 PM

Welcome to the boards Dude... :)

#3 oliver

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 10:53 PM

I'm pleased to be here.

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Welcome.

But, Christian with an atheist worldview? Which of those don't you take seriously?

#4 Adam Nagy

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 05:52 AM

Welcome.

But, Christian with an atheist worldview?  Which of those don't you take seriously?

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I was wondering the same thing.

#5 Adam Nagy

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 05:53 AM

Oh, and welcome, Dude.

#6 the totton linnet

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 07:37 AM

Oh, and welcome, Dude.

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*
Hi Doody unt vilkommen
*
I think he means Jesus was a nice Dude just like me

#7 Dude

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 07:57 AM

Thanks for the warm welcome.

Please, no debating about my religious stance, but I will explain my position. I was a practicing Catholic for almost all of my life. I realized on a few different occasions that God is a delusion, created by man.

Jesus on the other hand was a real person and had something wonderful to say and do. Skirting the issue of his connection to IMHO something imaginary, I find that his sayings/teachings about love of humanity wholly worthwhile of being taught in the form of Christian religions. Most religions occupy a good and useful place in society.

#8 Adam Nagy

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 08:03 AM

Jesus on the other hand was a real person and had something wonderful to say and do.

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Hi Dude,

A Christian is a Christ follower. Would you say this is you?

#9 oliver

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 08:23 AM

...God is a delusion, created by man.

Jesus on the other hand was a real person and had something wonderful to say and do.

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Since Jesus explicitly said he is the Son of God; this view makes him insane.

#10 Dude

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 08:24 AM

Hi Dude,

A Christian is a Christ follower. Would you say this is you?

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Are you trying to debate my religious stance?

#11 Adam Nagy

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 08:44 AM

Are you trying to debate my religious stance?

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This is a discussion forum isn't it? :(

#12 Dude

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 09:02 AM

This is a discussion forum isn't it? :(

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Sure it is. Among the labels in the pull down menu, Christian fits me best. I usually leave that field blank, if at all possible. I was a bit surprised to see that at first the field said, Creationist. That doesn't fit at all, so I had to change it to something else. That field should be something the user can fill in himself.

#13 Adam Nagy

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 09:07 AM

Why don't you change it to "no affiliation" then? It would save others confusion and you could keep your beliefs personal if you think that's possible.

#14 Dude

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 09:27 AM

Why don't you change it to "no affiliation" then? It would save others confusion and you could keep your beliefs personal if you think that's possible.

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How can I choose 'no affiliation' when I'm affiliated with the Catholics? Choosing among the options on the pull down menu is something to be chosen by the user. I appreciate your input and I even can see your point of view on the matter (i.e. showing the other forum members your stance on the existence of God, in the religious affiliation field, even though another special field has already been set aside for that purpose), but in the end I have to decide.

It would be better if I could simply leave that field blank. Even 'new age' fits better than 'non-affiliation.'



EDIT:
I have changed my affiliation to, 'new age' as 'Christian' is more integrally connected to a belief in God than to a love of humanity. 'New age' has none of the misleading connotations associated with the label 'Christian.'

#15 Adam Nagy

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 10:18 AM

That's cool. I wasn't trying to be a pain but I can tell from the way you have talked up until now that a Christian/Atheist would leave more people scratching their heads than offering a clear picture of who they are initially talking with.

Thanks for the change and welcome aboard. I hope you enjoy it here if you haven't already.

Adam

#16 de_skudd

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 07:44 AM

Thanks for the warm welcome.

Please, no debating about my religious stance, but I will explain my position. I was a practicing Catholic for almost all of my life. I realized on a few different occasions that God is a delusion, created by man.

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Welcome Dude…

May I ask, on which Biblical grounds you can deny debate on your religious stance? Especially when you come to a Christian forum, and state (without evidentiary entitlement) that “God is a delusion, created by man”.

I find it odd, that you can make an unsubstantiated and defamatory comment, then say; oh, and by the way, you cannot talk about my religious stance.. Sorry my friend, but that isn’t how logic, reason, science, scholarship, debate, civility and general communication work…


Jesus on the other hand was a real person and had something wonderful to say and do. Skirting the issue of his connection to IMHO something imaginary, I find that his sayings/teachings about love of humanity wholly worthwhile of being taught in the form of Christian religions. Most religions occupy a good and useful place in society.

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If Jesus isn’t who He said He was, then he had nothing wonderful to say, because He would then be a delusional liar. But, on the other hand, if He was who he said He was (and therefore is), then you are making a mighty mistake in you flippant attitude that “God is a delusion”… You cannot have it both ways, and you will have to defend such statements…

Having said that, again, welcome…

#17 de_skudd

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 07:45 AM

Are you trying to debate my religious stance?

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Absolutely! And in as friendly a manner as you'ed like :lol:

#18 Michamus

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 02:47 PM

Hi de_skudd,

It seems I am replying to you mostly in my first posts on this forum. I have no idea why, but your posts seem to be most response worthy to me.

If Jesus isn’t who He said He was, then he had nothing wonderful to say, because He would then be a delusional liar.

Whether or not Jesus was delusional on whether he was the Son of God, has no effect on whether or not "Love your brother as you love yourself" is considered an excellent moral to live by.

But, on the other hand, if He was who he said He was (and therefore is), then you are making a mighty mistake in you flippant attitude that “God is a delusion”… You cannot have it both ways, and you will have to defend such statements…

Indeed, he could be making a mighty mistake if the only way to Eternal Life is through Christ. Then again, you and I could be making the same mistake if it turns out Allah is god. (Although I have no faith in Allah) I prefer to be more interested in one's contributions to mankind, than their belief. I have met many of my so-called "Brother in Christ" that had very little in common with one leading a life desirous to be Christlike. Whereas I have run into Deists, and even Atheists (although a bit more rare) that strive to adopt christlike attributes (usually unbeknownst to them).

Just my 2 cents.

#19 de_skudd

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 04:08 PM

Hi de_skudd,

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Hello Michamus

It seems I am replying to you mostly in my first posts on this forum. I have no idea why, but your posts seem to be most response worthy to me.

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I think I can take this as a complement, and not adversarial… I’ve found that like thinkers draw to each other. Not like in philosophy, but like in manner or disposition… That can be a good thing I hope.

Whether or not Jesus was delusional on whether he was the Son of God, has no effect on whether or not "Love your brother as you love yourself" is considered an excellent moral to live by.

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It has great bearing if you keep the message in context (I’m a stickler for context. It seems to be a lost art anymore). "Love your brother as you love yourself” is not in-and-of itself the moral Jesus was talking about. It goes hand in hand with the sentence spoken just before it, and the sentence just after it. As well as the paragraphical and chapter/book context.

One cannot live by maxims arbitrarily ripped from their context (Hitler built a Reich this way), it’s a total message, not a hodgepodge to make one dizzy.

Indeed, he could be making a mighty mistake if the only way to Eternal Life is through Christ. Then again, you and I could be making the same mistake if it turns out Allah is god. (Although I have no faith in Allah) I prefer to be more interested in one's contributions to mankind, than their belief. I have met many of my so-called "Brother in Christ" that had very little in common with one leading a life desirous to be Christlike. Whereas I have run into Deists, and even Atheists (although a bit more rare) that strive to adopt christlike attributes (usually unbeknownst to them).

Just my 2 cents.

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You are correct; you could be making a mistake either way. What one has to do is weigh ALL the evidence, physical and metaphysical, logically, philosophically and scientifically, then make a reasoned decision.

But, logically, if Jesus is not who He said He was. Then He is not worthy of listening to…

So, just to adopt Christ like manners and mannerisms (no matter your social political beliefs), are a waste, if Jesus isn’t who He said He was. Likewise, to not follow hard after Him, if He is, is an even greater mistake.






P.S. Keep the change ;)

#20 Michamus

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 04:52 PM

I think I can take this as a complement, and not adversarial…

As it was intended.

It has great bearing if you keep the message in context (I’m a stickler for context. It seems to be a lost art anymore). "Love your brother as you love yourself” is not in-and-of itself the moral Jesus was talking about. It goes hand in hand with the sentence spoken just before it, and the sentence just after it. As well as the paragraphical and chapter/book context.

This is understandable, and I agree. I was more referencing the passage as an example of one part of Christ's message that is noteworthy, regardless of his relationship (or lack thereof) to God.

But, logically, if Jesus is not who He said He was. Then He is not worthy of listening to…

I would disagree. Even a madman can dispense pearls of wisdom from time to time. Luckily for us though, we don't believe Jesus to be a madman.

So, just to adopt Christ like manners and mannerisms (no matter your social political beliefs), are a waste, if Jesus isn’t who He said He was.

I really don't think adopting Christlike behavior a waste whether or not he was truly the Son of God. I have had many conversations with Buddhists (just to name one of many) who acknowledge the clarity and relevance of Christ's message.

Likewise, to not follow hard after Him, if He is, is an even greater mistake.

QFT

P.S. Keep the change  ;)

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I actually laughed out loud at this. Everyone in the Internet Cafe is looking at me like I am crazy right now... Forgive me, I have a dry sense of humor...




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